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Jim Smith

Mixed emotions after that

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On the one hand some good defending, we were right in it and it was probably closer than many thought it would be. There was some good resolve/steel to our play and I thought Hanley was excellent.

on the other hand I found our mentality and lack of intent in the second half frustrating. I don’t expect us to cut loose and leave the defence exposed but I do at least expect a side in our position, desperate for points, to have at least a bit of a go. Terrible from Farke again with the subs and I’m afraid I do not see what Duda and  Rupp bring to this side over Emi, Vrancic and Hernandez, all of who must be getting f**ked off.

i can only assume that the lack of urgency and genuine desire to win these games flows from the lack of pressure to actually stay in this league. 

 

 

 

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Couldn't agree more. Rupp tried and failed. Duda didn't even try. I doubt he even needed a shower. Emi and Mario must have wondered what on earth was going on 

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11 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

On the one hand some good defending, we were right in it and it was probably closer than many thought it would be. There was some good resolve/steel to our play and I thought Hanley was excellent.

on the other hand I found our mentality and lack of intent in the second half frustrating. I don’t expect us to cut loose and leave the defence exposed but I do at least expect a side in our position, desperate for points, to have at least a bit of a go. Terrible from Farke again with the subs and I’m afraid I do not see what Duda and  Rupp bring to this side over Emi, Vrancic and Hernandez, all of who must be getting f**ked off.

i can only assume that the lack of urgency and genuine desire to win these games flows from the lack of pressure to actually stay in this league. 

 

 

 

100% this..

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9 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

100% this..

And another 100% this from me.

We had an opportunity but we didn't really go for it.

Farke didn't use everything as his disposal to try to win it.

You can only assume that we were playing for a draw and although there's nothing wrong with that it was always odds on that Liverpool would score.

Would have been different perhaps if the Liverpool goal had come 15 minutes earlier because it's always difficult for subs to make an impact in 10 minutes.

Farke was never going to change anything until we were behind.

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13 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

On the one hand some good defending, we were right in it and it was probably closer than many thought it would be. There was some good resolve/steel to our play and I thought Hanley was excellent.

on the other hand I found our mentality and lack of intent in the second half frustrating. I don’t expect us to cut loose and leave the defence exposed but I do at least expect a side in our position, desperate for points, to have at least a bit of a go. Terrible from Farke again with the subs and I’m afraid I do not see what Duda and  Rupp bring to this side over Emi, Vrancic and Hernandez, all of who must be getting f**ked off.

i can only assume that the lack of urgency and genuine desire to win these games flows from the lack of pressure to actually stay in this league. 

 

 

 

Absolutely this. 

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I disagree re Rupp, a big part of his game last night was supporting Aarons, a job that he did very well. I do agree that Duda did not have a great game last night and perhaps should have been substituted........but I again ask the question do you stick with the team that has held one of the best club teams in the world to 0-0 or do you risk disrupting that by bringing on a sub. We were simply beaten by a piece of brilliance from a world class team, in the context of last nights game i do not think Farke got much wrong.......

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We were playing against the best side in the world right now. It was entirely sensible to [stay] defensively disciplined and attempt to play on the counter. Our approach was so effective that we can genuinely look back at two or three moments in the game and say we could easily have won had things gone our way.

We can be disappointed in the result without blaming anyone. Liverpool are much better than us and we caused them real problems and came pretty close to an upset.

Edited by Petriix
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1 minute ago, Petriix said:

We were playing against the best side in the world right now. It was entirely sensible to say defensively disciplined and attempt to play on the counter. Our approach was so effective that we can genuinely look back at two or three moments in the game and say we could easily have won had things gone our way.

We can be disappointed in the result without blaming anyone. Liverpool are much better than us and we caused them real problems and came pretty close to an upset.

100% this

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4 minutes ago, Petriix said:

We were playing against the best side in the world right now. It was entirely sensible to say defensively disciplined and attempt to play on the counter. Our approach was so effective that we can genuinely look back at two or three moments in the game and say we could easily have won had things gone our way.

We can be disappointed in the result without blaming anyone. Liverpool are much better than us and we caused them real problems and came pretty close to an upset.

Yep. How on earth people can complain, is beyond me.

Especially re Subs. We set up to nullify their biggest threats which was pace and power on both flanks both up front and wing backs. Rupp was defensively superb at helping Aaron's who, had we played Buendia instead, would likely have been horribly exposed.

In fact, in Buendias cameo he lost the ball 3 times in 10 minutes. We couldn't afford that over a longer period of game time, we would have been ripped apart.

Anyone who can't see Rupp is a good player, I'll struggle to converse with.

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14 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

On the one hand some good defending, we were right in it and it was probably closer than many thought it would be. There was some good resolve/steel to our play and I thought Hanley was excellent.

on the other hand I found our mentality and lack of intent in the second half frustrating. I don’t expect us to cut loose and leave the defence exposed but I do at least expect a side in our position, desperate for points, to have at least a bit of a go. Terrible from Farke again with the subs and I’m afraid I do not see what Duda and  Rupp bring to this side over Emi, Vrancic and Hernandez, all of who must be getting f**ked off.

i can only assume that the lack of urgency and genuine desire to win these games flows from the lack of pressure to actually stay in this league. 

 

 

 

Emi has only not started the last two games. I doubt he can get too angry about that.

Hernandez has struggled to be effective in almost every substitute appearance.

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Isn't it amazing that so many people have said that we need a Plan B and then when the manager changes things, to make us more difficult to beat, against the best team in the world, they still can't understand why.

Rupp is a good player but he is not a replacement for Emi, he is just a player who was needed to play the system the manager wanted.

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I think we set up to do a job that nearly worked - to criticise is extremely harsh.  We need to be aware of our limitations when playing the best side in world football.  I think Duda had to play ‘within’ himself as is a more attacking player but for much of the game we were camped in our own half.  I don’t think it was really a game for Emi, had he started we would have been a lot less solid and would quite probably have lost by more - he’s much more a player for when we are on the front foot.

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Agree with the comments re Rupp and Buendia. Duda looked lost in that game for me and I'm not sure what he has to offer over Vrancic tbh. Pukki had very little to feed off. 

It was pleasing that we stopped Alex A and Robertson getting any crosses in, and generally we contained Salah and Firmino really well. I thought Liverpool barely got out of 3rd gear most of the match though.

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In that last 25 minutes we did break a few times and the players let themselves down with poor passes or positions. That's not Farke's fault, and given that the team was breaking out reasonable to expect more opportunities to come along. I agree that Duda had a quiet game, but like many times this season we appear to be not quite as confident, not quite as physical, not quite as fast.

And that is probably down to the fact we are not quite as good. No big surprise there. 

 

BTW we officially no longer have the worst defence in the Premier League. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Surfer said:

 

 

BTW we officially no longer have the worst defence in the Premier League. 

 

That's why they will be one of the three to go down.

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6 hours ago, hogesar said:

Yep. How on earth people can complain, is beyond me.

Especially re Subs. We set up to nullify their biggest threats which was pace and power on both flanks both up front and wing backs. Rupp was defensively superb at helping Aaron's who, had we played Buendia instead, would likely have been horribly exposed.

In fact, in Buendias cameo he lost the ball 3 times in 10 minutes. We couldn't afford that over a longer period of game time, we would have been ripped apart.

Anyone who can't see Rupp is a good player, I'll struggle to converse with.

Yes but Buendia also created the chance for Pukki with a great ball. Should have been on earlier for Duda who didn’t look in the game all night.

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The only time we threatened in that second half was for the last few minutes when Buendea was on the pitch. The stats don’t lie, if we are to win football games at this level than Pukki, Buendea and Cantwell must all start. 

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Anyone who can't see Rupp is a good player, I'll struggle to converse with.

That is daft. Nobody can tell whether he is good or bad yet. I doubt he is bad but he isn't Buendia and you can take that to the bank

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He is a good, tidy player. I can see he will be useful next season but he should have come off after about an hour yesterday. 

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20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Anyone who can't see Rupp is a good player, I'll struggle to converse with.

That is daft. Nobody can tell whether he is good or bad yet. I doubt he is bad but he isn't Buendia and you can take that to the bank

He isn't supposed to be Buendia. They're completely different players but if you can't see that he is a good player (there's plenty enough evidence in his general play, it doesn't take an expert), then I don't see the point in discussing. Whether he will be a good signing for us depends on form and fitness etc but its generally pretty obvious from 90 or 180 mins of football if someone is technically good and can read a game.

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2 hours ago, JF said:

The only time we threatened in that second half was for the last few minutes when Buendea was on the pitch. The stats don’t lie, if we are to win football games at this level than Pukki, Buendea and Cantwell must all start. 

So I must have dreamt about Tettey hitting the post. I love Emi but you omit to mention his absolutely woeful attempt on goal and giving the ball away at least three times when we we were committing players forward.

 

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28 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

So I must have dreamt about Tettey hitting the post. I love Emi but you omit to mention his absolutely woeful attempt on goal and giving the ball away at least three times when we we were committing players forward.

 

Yeah I admit I forgot Tettey’s shot. But as I’ve posted on another thread, Buendea is our highest rated player on passes completed, tackles, chances created and assists this season. He’s also 19th in the PL on tackles, 2nd on chances created and 3rd on assists. We failed to win a single game when he wasn’t in the team last season. If we want to win football matches, he starts, simple as that.

Edited by JF

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He isn't supposed to be Buendia. They're completely different players but if you can't see that he is a good player (there's plenty enough evidence in his general play, it doesn't take an expert), then I don't see the point in discussing. Whether he will be a good signing for us depends on form and fitness etc but its generally pretty obvious from 90 or 180 mins of football if someone is technically good and can read a game.

2 games to tell if someone is good? I doubt it. And if you read, I said I doubted he is bad. And he played in Buendia's position Saturday so the comparison is valid. And one pass from Buendia should have led to a different result.

We all thought Trybull, Leitner and Hernandez were the bees knees last season but while they are still decent players, they have struggled at this level. And at the moment, there is no evidence to say that Rupp and Duda are an improvement.

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23 hours ago, hogesar said:

Anyone who can't see Rupp is a good player, I'll struggle to converse with.

Rupp is fine but my early impressions are that he's a technically superior Andy Hughes.

Keeps it simple, works hard, lots of neat short passes but playing him this far forward blunts our attacking chances. I can see why Farke likes him but I'm not convinced he brings much we didn't already have to the table.

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Norwich typically looks stronger than they actually are, because of the style of play that likes to hold the ball, make passes behind and because we have technical players that look very impressive. The reality often is that we have trouble getting into the opposition penalty area to fire from a truly good positions. In fact just about the only one regularly managing it is Teemu. And all those short-range opportunities that you've seen him take a dozen times? They're 1/3 probability opportunities. Even the Teemu's Newcastle big opportunity was rated as 0.3 or 0.4 something.

To put things into perspective, the average shots required to get a goal is 10. Meaning average chance is xG 0.1. Anything over 0.1 (10%) is above average. Penalty kicks are 80% or something, despite "sure things". They're not.

We're a solid championship tier team with an elite PL striker and an elite midfielder. Or rather, we WERE before the last two months in which we've seen quite a few of the players up their game.

And the team got visibly tired during the last 20 minutes or so. That's what happens when you're at 100% of your capacity against an overwhelming opponent. No shame in that. Just reality. To change it requires about £100M.

Edited by Upo

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18 hours ago, ricardo said:

That's why they will be one of the three to go down.

Villa? Good. Can’t see them recovering to be a threat next season with the FFP issues they’ll have.

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