Moritz Leitner

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

11 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I remember someone, probably Bethnal, saying how the other German players were excited about him signing and couldn’t quite believe it. Sad really that his promise has never been fulfilled. One of Farke’s few failures.

Think failure is unfair, there were times  last season and a little bit this , that the was midfield  boss, give go come drop keep ball, BUT,  he's just not  quite quick , strong or dominant  enough . Mario is a much better  option  as playmaker  as can beat a man too, giving himself time for a killer pass.  If we stay up Moritz has to go , if we go down,  then maybe he has a role.  Shane, cos at champs level  he sometimes looked absolute class. 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

Agreed that failure might be harsh, but it was more about man management than ability. Ultimately, it’s Leitner’s attitude rather than his skill that has got him in this situation. It looks like Farke works best at development with the younger players, or ones who already have the right attitude (like Rhodes and Krul). 

[Yellow and Green 334]

12 hours ago, Grando said:

He's never entirely convinced me. I think in games where it's going well (like Newcastle at home this season) he's looked very good doing simple, short passes. But in a tougher, more battling situation he's just looked lightweight and not particularly creative. Coupled with his small stature, he has no pace and offers little goal threat. I'd always rather see Vrancic in the team over him; I haven't yet seen enough of Rupp to see whether he offers more, but at this point I think Leitner isn't really what we need.

He links the play well and is technically very gifted. In the Championship, he was mentally a step ahead of the opposition and could help control the play and dictate the tempo. However, in the prem he has done OK but the other players are bigger, stronger and press him quickly. 

He can be listed in the positive signings but he needs other attributes to be successful in the prem. Either more goals/assists or stronger defensibly then he would be worth it. If Sitti is a mix between Leitner and Tettey then we're on to a winner!

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

10 hours ago, kingsway said:

Not unfair at all I think!

I've no doubt that technically Leitners very good but the lack of pace, strength, tackling ability and a suspect attitude renders his undoubted ball skills obsolete.

His career stats are indeed very unconvincing, a player with his technical ability should have played more games then what he has at his age and not moved around so much, - tell tale signs! 

Yes a good point made about his career. I think what impressed me about Leitner is his ability to read a game. He was always a step or two ahead of everyone. It’s a shame he isn’t quicker or stronger, because if so I suspect he’d be a valuable asset. 

[BarcelonaCanary 3]

Good to see that we have enough strength in depth to let a player of his quality leave. He’d be in my squad ahead of Marco S all day though as back up number 10 / advanced 8.
 

Seems to be another case of Nelson Olivera ego battle though.... and on that note could Nelson have been the difference between us being 17th or above at this stage if Herr F managed egos better?

[king canary 7,578]

6 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

In the Championship, he was mentally a step ahead of the opposition and could help control the play and dictate the tempo. However, in the prem he has done OK but the other players are bigger, stronger and press him quickly.

I think this sums it up for quite a few of our players.

A step ahead of Championship opponents, a step behind Premier League ones.

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

2 minutes ago, BarcelonaCanary said:

Seems to be another case of Nelson Olivera ego battle though.... and on that note could Nelson have been the difference between us being 17th or above at this stage if Herr F managed egos better?

What do you mean by that ? Let the players with big egos get their own way ? Any player that thinks he’s bigger or better than the club can leave as far as I’m concerned 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 minutes ago, BarcelonaCanary said:

Good to see that we have enough strength in depth to let a player of his quality leave. He’d be in my squad ahead of Marco S all day though as back up number 10 / advanced 8.
 

Seems to be another case of Nelson Olivera ego battle though.... and on that note could Nelson have been the difference between us being 17th or above at this stage if Herr F managed egos better?

Egos have no place in our Club. 

[king canary 7,578]

1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

What do you mean by that ? Let the players with big egos get their own way ? Any player that thinks he’s bigger or better than the club can leave as far as I’m concerned 

I've no insight into Farke's man-management style but I can't remember a previous manager falling out with/publically criticizing as many players as him. 

[Herman 9,715]

Glen Roeder??😀

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

I've no insight into Farke's man-management style but I can't remember a previous manager falling out with/publically criticizing as many players as him. 

Good, prima donnas  and jonny big bollix are for the likes of Manyoo and Arsenal. 

[king canary 7,578]

5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Good, prima donnas  and jonny big bollix are for the likes of Manyoo and Arsenal. 

Handling egos is part of the job though- from what I'm told by a few people Grant Holt was the definition of a 'jonny big bollix' but we managed to get the most out of him.

[ron obvious 1,499]

24 minutes ago, king canary said:

I've no insight into Farke's man-management style but I can't remember a previous manager falling out with/publically criticizing as many players as him. 

Who has he publicly criticised??

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

Not necessarily,  GH at a better team could have done even better, and when trying to build a cohesive unit that can rely on the standards and efforts of teammates, egos are surplus to requirements, by definition an ego thrives on  self regard. Self regard detracts from the common effort and therefore  from the common goal. Going back to GH , he was more of a character than an ego as his work rate and battling attest to, much like Troy Deeney,  being a big character dies not necessarily  indicate a big ego, they show themselves when the going gets tough, a big ego will shy from rolling up its sleeves. There are of course exceptions,  whose talents  outstrip the inconvenience  of their  self regard....but they are few, and far between. Mo   leitner  isn't one. FWIW I am one who thought Mo was a premier league player  wating to prove his stuff, as it turned out, he hasn't,  a shame but time, tide and footy waits for no man 

Edited January 31, 2020 by wcorkcanary

[king canary 7,578]

7 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Who has he publicly criticised??

Off the top of my head, Nelson, Josh Murphy, Watkins and Edwards. 

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

Just now, king canary said:

Off the top of my head, Nelson, Josh Murphy, Watkins and Edwards. 

Do you think they were above any criticism? Most people on here slated all of them at the time too.

[king canary 7,578]

1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

Do you think they were above any criticism? Most people on here slated all of them at the time too.

No I don't. I'm just saying I don't remember another manager doing similar. It may be that is just his style and it works for him. I do have some questions about his squad management though and his man-management falls under that to a certain extent.

Also, there is zero equivalence between fans criticizing players on a forum and their manager criticizing them publically to the media.

[ron obvious 1,499]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

Off the top of my head, Nelson, Josh Murphy, Watkins and Edwards. 

I only remember very mild criticism for any of them, always mitigated by saying what 'good lads' they were. It was more the fact he didn't play them which spoke volumes - as is true for any manager.

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Good, prima donnas  and jonny big bollix are for the likes of Manyoo and Arsenal. 

Plenty of those types of players at every club. There are quite a few in the Norwich team currently. 

Like King Canary I do worry about Farke’s man management at times. With limited resources Farke needs to get the best out of every member of the squad - and writing off a player due to a falling out or something is poor resources management. 
 

What if the next player Farke falls out with is someone like Buendia or Pukki and they disappear from the team? 
 

 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

There are quite a few in the Norwich team currently. 

Who? Genuinely interested  as I dont see it when they're playing...which is all I see of them,  I have no inside knowledge. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

"What if the next player Farke falls out with is"

I would put it the other way round - that "what if a player falls out with Farke".  Player power is half of the problem these days and I like the fact that Farke will stand up to the nonsense that some players get up to because of their egos. Oliveira was the prime example, but there have plainly been others to a lesser degree. Good on him, he said it right at the outset - it is about the group, not individuals - so if they don't hack it on that level why should anyone be surprised that he takes out of the team anyone who doesn't fit in? 

It's refreshing - and if players, however good they are decide to the rock the boat, we have plenty of good players to take their place. Egos are not part of the plan, we don't need them. Get rid if they won't fit in.

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

I've no insight into Farke's man-management style but I can't remember a previous manager falling out with/publically criticizing as many players as him. 

The team spirit   under Farke is better than under any other manager I can remember. It wasn't so long back that Alex Neil was falling out with James Maddison. There were no such problems between Farke and Maddison - which was to the massive benefit of our club - both when Maddison played for us and when we eventually sold him. 

[ron obvious 1,499]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Plenty of those types of players at every club. There are quite a few in the Norwich team currently. 

Like King Canary I do worry about Farke’s man management at times. With limited resources Farke needs to get the best out of every member of the squad - and writing off a player due to a falling out or something is poor resources management. 
 

What if the next player Farke falls out with is someone like Buendia or Pukki and they disappear from the team? 
 

 

Ooh! Do tell ...

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Plenty of those types of players at every club. There are quite a few in the Norwich team currently. 

Like King Canary I do worry about Farke’s man management at times. With limited resources Farke needs to get the best out of every member of the squad - and writing off a player due to a falling out or something is poor resources management. 
 

What if the next player Farke falls out with is someone like Buendia or Pukki and they disappear from the team? 
 

 

Do you actually have any evidence of this happening under Farke????

It seems to have escaped a number of people on this thread, but you can only pick 11 players - plus subs. Just because a player doesn't make the matchday squad it doesn't mean 'he's fallen out with Farke' it far more likely just means that he's not playing well enough to be picked. 

 

[Hillhead 114]

2 hours ago, ron obvious said:

I only remember very mild criticism for any of them, always mitigated by saying what 'good lads' they were. It was more the fact he didn't play them which spoke volumes - as is true for any manager.

 

Agreed those were all very gentle criticisms indeed and I didn’t object to any of them at the time.

He’s never thrown a player under the bus for a poor performance and has always backed them individually.
 

1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

What if the next player Farke falls out with is someone like Buendia or Pukki and they disappear from the team? 

 

 

As for Farke falling out with the likes of Buendia or Pukki I’ve seen nothing to suggest this would take them out of the team. Many of those with the cases of poor attitude weren’t really putting in great performances to begin with so it was probably a mix of the two which saw them out of the team and Farke commenting about it in the media. 
 

I don’t blame him for making comments towards the likes of Edwards or Oliveira either. There would have been many questioning their lack of appearances at the time and if their quality and attitude weren’t up to it I wouldn’t blame Farke for revealing it when asked.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Hillhead

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

Ooh! Do tell ...

Bump

[Pugin 601]

2 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Ooh! Do tell ...

Leitner gave Daniel little choice. He has been an ar$e with a number of the younger, inexperienced players, the ones who who thinks won't stand up to him. So it's nothing to do with the manager / player relationship. Case closed. Cheerio.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 minutes ago, Pugin said:

Leitner gave Daniel little choice. He has been an ar$e with a number of the younger, inexperienced players, the ones who who thinks won't stand up to him. So it's nothing to do with the manager / player relationship. Case closed. Cheerio.

To back Ron Obvioso here, he was asking, as I was ,for Bethnalo to name the Billy big bollixs in the squad that he says are there, not what the prob was with Leitner. 

[Il Pirata 249]

Leitner has barely been given a chance in his preferred role, which is CDM next to a Tettey type. 

He was awesome against Newcastle. Admittedly poor against Villa, but who wasn't? Kenny Mclean was just as poor next to him. After that, Farke used him in the number 10 position, which isn't where he's effective. Most now seem to be judging his ability on a couple of poor performances in an unfamiliar position, amongst a time when we had terrible injuries and next to no team cohesion. 

For me, it's another example of Farke not utilising the tools available effectively. Mclean, who I do like, is clearly favoured. And who can honestly say Mclean is streets ahead of Leitner?

Now admitted, I'm basing my opinion on the supposed 'fallout' being speculation. After all, Farke himself quashed this rumour. 

 

[Il Pirata 249]

8 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Egos have no place in our Club. 

Why are we unique to every other football club in the world?