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Icecream Snow

Amadou off?

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2 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

A little Hit and miss?  The summer was one of the most important to get right but we got those hits and misses v much the wrong way round, many more misses than hits.

The summer window was an absolute horror show, there can be little dispute in that 

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I think Farke demands very high skill levels from his players. I was watching Liverpool play West Ham & it struck me they mis-controlled the ball more times than we do. It's extremely rare to see the ball bouncing off one of our players; Todd, Emi, Onel, Mario, Teemu, Max, I've seen them all perform some wonderful bring-downs of the ball, taking off & accelerating away in one smooth action. Even the much maligned Tettey nearly always brings the ball instantly under control. Ibrahim just wasn't consistently good enough in this respect.

The big difference with Liverpool is that they're simply strong enough (& confident enough) to win the ball back if they do something clumsy. And their athleticism & movement is on a different level to ours. We are improving though!

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Seen a figure flying around on social media that we were paying him 60k a week. 

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19 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

A little Hit and miss?  The summer was one of the most important to get right but we got those hits and misses v much the wrong way round, many more misses than hits.

So when were the unimportant transfer windows? They all seem important at the time.

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1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

So when were the unimportant transfer windows? They all seem important at the time.

Not really - last January for example, we did very little.

The first window on promotion to the PL is surely one to try extremely hard to get ‘right’. 

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7 minutes ago, JF said:

Seen a figure flying around on social media that we were paying him 60k a week. 

If this is true we could be saving something in the region of £700k. Which is a lot of cash if you’re, say, in League 1. Though not in the grand scheme of things if we suddenly have a couple of CBs or Tettey injured...

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Up to the point of losing Amadou I had thought this Window was decent - we feel stronger having Duda and Rupp in for Heise and Srbeny, but now we are going to be down by one senior player and our weakest area is now weaker. A bit odd.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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4 minutes ago, Grando said:

If this is true we could be saving something in the region of £700k. Which is a lot of cash if you’re, say, in League 1. Though not in the grand scheme of things if we suddenly have a couple of CBs or Tettey injured...

It would really conclude this season in typical this-season fashion if Godfrey and Zimbo came out to wave Amadou goodbye just for him to accidentally run over their feet and cripple them.

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Yes Byram was a steal at a suggested £750K, but another gamble with a player with a horrendous injury history, but permanent! With Webber, our loan signings to “strengthen” our championship winning squad to take on the premiership challenge is nothing short of horrendous and ridiculous, in that Heise, Roberts and now Amadou (who we had an option to buy at 9.5m) have all left the club!!

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The summer window, at least in terms of senior signings, has proven to be a really poor one. Let's hope that the raft of young players brought in have some impact in the longer term.

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9 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

In this case, we could bring the horse to water, but unfortunately we couldn’t make it drink. That’s football unfortunately, not every signing works out, I certainly wouldn’t call it a mistake by Farke or Webber, it’s just how football transfers go sometimes.

So we were most unfortunate to pick up Amadou?

Heise?

Roberts?

3 out of 3. No mistakes there then!

 

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5 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

So we were most unfortunate to pick up Amadou?

Heise?

Roberts?

3 out of 3. No mistakes there then!

 

I wouldn't lump Heise into it - seemed to be a signing for the Championship (and likely a very cheap one).

Byram is the only success out of the lot. Drmic, if we're generous, hasn't been bad. There's an argument that Fahrmann's signing has pushed Krul on (and is an argument I've made) but now that Amadou's gone back it really is starting to look like a bit of a shambles.

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1 minute ago, kirku said:

I wouldn't lump Heise into it - seemed to be a signing for the Championship (and likely a very cheap one).

Byram is the only success out of the lot. Drmic, if we're generous, hasn't been bad. There's an argument that Fahrmann's signing has pushed Krul on (and is an argument I've made) but now that Amadou's gone back it really is starting to look like a bit of a shambles.

And there is my point K. Drmic, has it really paid off? Another permanent signing with a horrendous injury record, that is still continuing.

Was Heise brought in for the championship? Which season? 

It does look a shambles, and someone is responsible! 

 

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4 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

And there is my point K. Drmic, has it really paid off? Another permanent signing with a horrendous injury record, that is still continuing.

Was Heise brought in for the championship? Which season? 

It does look a shambles, and someone is responsible! 

 

I look at it like this; the team that got us up deserved a shot at the Prem and the Webber transfer strategy has, overall, been the most cohesive and effective one that I can remember. 

All that being said, they did screw up the summer window, no doubt about it (less so, of course, if some of those youth signings become the next Godfrey, Aarons, Maddison..)

Edited by kirku

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People go on like this is specific to us. Eric Djemba Djemba and a dodgy Italian keeper anyone ? Man U must have been shambolic at the time, I hope heads rolled. 

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34 minutes ago, kirku said:

I look at it like this; the team that got us up deserved a shot at the Prem and the Webber transfer strategy has, overall, been the most cohesive and effective one that I can remember. 

All that being said, they did screw up the summer window, no doubt about it (less so, of course, if some of those youth signings become the next Godfrey, Aarons, Maddison..)

Exactly. If you only look at one specific transfer window, we’ve failed. Big picture, we’re still extremely impressive with the bargains we find. 
 

It was a frequent refrain at the start of the season that we should give the youngsters in the team time to find their feet in the PL, and this has been proven to be the right approach for most of them. Farke and Webber also need to be cut a little slack - they are learning too. And having said that, even the experienced managers buy pups too.

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Getting any player in is a gamble whether you buy them or are just loaning them in. Amadou had his chances to shine and did OK at times, so has been useful cover, but overall hasn't been able to hold down place in the team so now we have fit options in his positions and he isn't playing, no point in keeping him. Good luck to him, played an important part in us beating Man City which was a fantastic occasion, so can't help think that he was important to have at the time. We - and - he move on. 

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Signings under the current regime have always been very hit and miss. Pretty much 50:50 in my opinion.  We all know the excellent signings we have made, and I would put the following under poor signings. 

Franke, Srbeny, Husband, Raggett, Watkins, Edwards, Marshall, Passlack, Heise, Roberts and Amadou. 

However, what all these failures have in common is they were relatively cheap and have been easy to offload.

This seems to be our strategy - buy lots of relatively cheap, with the expectation that 50% step up... And that has actually worked very well in the championship.

What remains to be seen, is the quality of the u23 players we recruit. While Madders, Godfrey, Lewis, Aaron's and Cantwell have all flourished - none of those players were brought to the club by this regime. Madders and Godfrey were even brought in during the universally lambasted transfer strategy that saw us sign Naismith. 

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A real shame as even Tettey himself thought Amadou was going to be the player to step into his position.

I imagine with more games at this level he would have grown into the role, but we didn't want to risk further performances like Southampton.

Only praise for our transfer dealings last year, but you can't say this season we got our recruitment right. Fährmann, Amadou, Roberts and Drmic haven't been better than what we had already.

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Really hoped he was going to be the defensive midfield upgrade we needed to compete and so disappointed that it hasn't worked out.

It's wishful thinking to criticise Farke for not giving him a chance as surely Farke didn't think he was good enough or he'd have played him more.

I'd have loved us to have blown the budget on Wanyama in the Summer as a player with his strength and power could have made the difference this season, but then again he could have picked up an injury or been crap and then we'd have been back to Naismith again.

The one positive with Amadou I suppose is that we can send him back and have saved a potential £9 million or so fee for signing him.

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5 minutes ago, Peanuts said:

Really hoped he was going to be the defensive midfield upgrade we needed to compete and so disappointed that it hasn't worked out.

It's wishful thinking to criticise Farke for not giving him a chance as surely Farke didn't think he was good enough or he'd have played him more.

I'd have loved us to have blown the budget on Wanyama in the Summer as a player with his strength and power could have made the difference this season, but then again he could have picked up an injury or been crap and then we'd have been back to Naismith again.

The one positive with Amadou I suppose is that we can send him back and have saved a potential £9 million or so fee for signing him.

I made exactly that point a while ago, loan with a chance to buy is an ideal scenario  for us.

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On 31/01/2020 at 23:01, Branston Pickle said:

A little Hit and miss?  The summer was one of the most important to get right but we got those hits and misses v much the wrong way round, many more misses than hits.

Absolutely, but that's why we are where we are. If Amadou had been the beast we think we'd signed, our defensive crisis would have been less bad, and he would have bolstered our midfield once it was over. Instead, he's been ok at best. We won't miss him.

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On 01/02/2020 at 08:45, FenwayFrank said:

People go on like this is specific to us. Eric Djemba Djemba and a dodgy Italian keeper anyone ? Man U must have been shambolic at the time, I hope heads rolled. 

If it’s Massimo Taibi - he actually had a decent ish top flight career in Italy after Man Utd. Djemba Djemba though, just looked at him on Wikipedia - after Man Utd he had 11 games at Villa then spells in such footballing hotbeds as Qatar, Denmark, Israel, Serbia, Scotland, India, Indonesia and a club in the third tier of French football in the Loire.

Can’t say I blame him to be fair - 10 years of getting paid to travel the world or a decade in grey old Manchester....

 

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On 31/01/2020 at 23:15, JF said:

Seen a figure flying around on social media that we were paying him 60k a week. 

Anybody who believes that we are paying anywhere remotely anywhere near that figure seriously needs to have a word with themselves. Those figures were the long past McNally / Neil regime.

Edited by TIL 1010

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Baffling that we can come out of the window slightly weaker in defence than we were going into it.

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3 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Anybody who believes that we are paying anywhere remotely anywhere near that figure seriously needs to have a word with themselves. Those figures were the long past McNally / Neil regime.

I’ve got no idea if it’s true or not, but he was on loan (so therefore not much chance of us being lumped with that salary for the next three years if we go down), was from a decent La Liga club with a decent pedigree... and would also possibly help explain why we have let him go back. I wouldn’t be overly surprised if it’s not too far away from that figure.

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8 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Anybody who believes that we are paying anywhere remotely anywhere near that figure seriously needs to have a word with themselves. Those figures were the long past McNally / Neil regime.

I believe he was Lille captain and Seville who are massive team in Spain’s top flight and champions league team paid about £15 million for him? I’d be surprised if he wasn’t on around that sort of money 

Edited by JF

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