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paul moy

Wuhan coronavirus

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Reference that Preston post. Sounds like the "designed" claim may not be true. Built from an existing design given to them, and not yet approved may be closer to the mark. But whatever it takes to get the ventilators built .... so long as "names" don't get prioritized inappropriately is good in my book. 

Tend to agree with that. I suspect there's a hit of 'marketing' in all of this whereas 'Airbus', GKN and whatever are less fluffy sounding - albeit there are ramping up an existing design plus any other companies striving to get involved and meet demand.

Nevertheless whoever can deliver approved systems. 

Edited by Yellow Fever

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Yeah I agree. It's an obvious fit to a manufacturer. May just be a case of over zealous reporting of the involvement of a well known name. So no harm IMO. All power to anyone who can quickly build up ventilator capacity for the NHS (and other healthcare systems) 

Some semi-positive news out today on UK trend for new cases? Seems surprising given the lock down is only a few days old, but still if it is true that is a good sign. We'll see by early next week I guess. 

On the other hand, read this and weep. I pre-apologize if the USA become the incubator of a second round of infection in a few months. There was a pandemic response plan. Of course it was ignored. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

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I think reports that existing suppliers not funded would be concerning if true. But while Dyson was not on my list for a new vacuum cleaner if they can provide additional ventilators then that has to be a good thing regardless of my comment in jest. The PR coming out compared to other companies who are just getting on with could have been better and more honest but not the main issue

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3 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Yeah I agree. It's an obvious fit to a manufacturer. May just be a case of over zealous reporting of the involvement of a well known name. So no harm IMO. All power to anyone who can quickly build up ventilator capacity for the NHS (and other healthcare systems) 

Some semi-positive news out today on UK trend for new cases? Seems surprising given the lock down is only a few days old, but still if it is true that is a good sign. We'll see by early next week I guess. 

On the other hand, read this and weep. I pre-apologize if the USA become the incubator of a second round of infection in a few months. There was a pandemic response plan. Of course it was ignored. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

From a purely engineering point of view - a free-running vacuum cleaner, hair-dryer, fan etc are worlds apart from a ventilator. They both deal with air and need power. That's about all. Pneumatics is ventilator stuff and pressure regulations with lots of 'safety' features.

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It has always been said that the design needed approval, I would expect that to be fast tracked.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Looking objectively at this dyson appears to be an ideal company to have involved.

A ventilator seems to me to be at heart an electric motor in a plastic housing g that is used to move air around tubes.  It doesnt seem to be much different to a vacuum.

It is largely British based with british manufacturing capability so no over reliance on difficult trade routes.

The Brexit link that a lot are keen to emphasise is entirely secondary in my opinion.

I agree with the part about the Brexit link (and I don't really care about past Tory party donorship issues in this crisis, interesting aside though it may be) but it's about delivery times and making sure that the government is on the curve or ahead of it.

They've known the trajectories, they have modelled what the peak pressure is likely to be on need for critical care. This one issue is about working with manufacturers who can deliver. The Business Minister was asked several times last night and he just kept saying soon. Maybe he didn't know. In which case he should have said.

Doctors need to know now when those deliveries are going to be. The minister talked about the Dyson 10000 of course but didn't mention the testing or medical sign off times.

What we need is facts on these things, adult, sensible and serious guidance. If it's a problem then they must say it as it is. It's a national emergency not time for party political bluster. The 12000 ventilators was never the case. 25000 tests per day are well off. The 3.5m antibody tests are reportedly not ready in 'days'. 

You can say anything but it's now all about delivering. It's about clarity, planning, logistics. In short, management. 

Thank goodness for the people who are working in the field, the drivers, deliverers, nurses, essential care workers and the volunteers. At least they are not showing signs of incompetence.

Edited by sonyc
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12 minutes ago, sonyc said:

They've known the trajectories, they have modelled what the peak pressure is likely to be on need for critical care. This one issue is about working with manufacturers who can deliver. The Business Minister was asked several times last night and he just kept saying soon. Maybe he didn't know. In which case he should have said.

Doctors need to know now when those deliveries are going to be. The minister talked about the Dyson 10000 of course but didn't mention the testing or medical sign off times.

What we need is facts on these things, adult, sensible and serious guidance. If it's a problem then they must say it as it is. It's a national emergency not time for party political bluster. The 12000 ventilators was never the case. 25000 tests per day are well off. The 3.5m antibody tests are reportedly not ready in 'days'. 

You can say anything but it's now all about delivering. It's about clarity, planning, logistics. In short, management. 

Thank goodness for the people who are working in the field, the drivers, deliverers, nurses, essential care workers and the volunteers. At least they are not showing signs of incompetence.

Agree with all that and personally am getting sick to the back teeth hearing about how they are moving at pace and ramping up etc, etc, etc!!

They have had two months to ramp up in preparation for a crisis they knew was approaching and frankly they appear to have done next to nothing in terms of actual preparation - nearly a week after lockdown and still the NHS is struggling for basic PPE, never mind testing kits, ventilators, staff etc etc.

I don't doubt that the government is now trying very hard to make up for lost time but unfortunately the virus is not waiting for them and Boris has been a very long way behind the curve every step of step of the way, not just in taking decisive actions which have all come later than they should of done but in totally failing to take advantage of the warnings and time that we've had to prepare and equip us properly, or at least as well as possible given that basic stuff like PPE could have been bought two months ago, WHO has been saying for weeks and weeks that we need to ramp up testing - only within the last week has that advice been taken seriously and of course it will take some time to make it happen.

I'm sure others may see things differently but from my perspective Boris has moved directly from indifference/laissez faire to total panic in a week and everyone, but especially the NHS, is suffering the consequences of that incompetence.

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Good to see people keeping up a good level of negativity.😀

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13 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Good to see people keeping up a good level of negativity.😀

Understand Ricardo. But for me it's literally about life and death. I don't want any single poster having the need for ICU let alone people I know and family. Not especially when things could be so much better organised.

I suppose though that moaning on here helps you to express your unhappiness but it changes nothing. All I can do is look after me, loved ones and volunteer. In other words, take my own action. Yet I find my blood boiling at some of the lies I hear on TV. Worse than a very late Farke substitution, worse than Stiepo coming on with 10 minutes left and we are losing (apols my friend Marco, it could be another).

My Buddhist self tells me to let it all go. My public servant self (40 years plus) doesn't like the way ordinary folk are being treated. The humble citizen in the street.

Yet, it's always been thus hasn't it and I'm old and wise enough to know the world is imperfect.

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

Understand Ricardo. But for me it's literally about life and death. I don't want any single poster having the need for ICU let alone people I know and family. Not especially when things could be so much better organised.

I suppose though that moaning on here helps you to express your unhappiness but it changes nothing. All I can do is look after me, loved ones and volunteer. In other words, take my own action. Yet I find my blood boiling at some of the lies I hear on TV. Worse than a very late Farke substitution, worse than Stiepo coming on with 10 minutes left and we are losing (apols my friend Marco, it could be another).

My Buddhist self tells me to let it all go. My public servant self (40 years plus) doesn't like the way ordinary folk are being treated. The humble citizen in the street.

Yet, it's always been thus hasn't it and I'm old and wise enough to know the world is imperfect.

I expect there are a lot of people working very hard behind the scenes to get stuff done. Magic wands are easy, organisation takes time.

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11 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I expect there are a lot of people working very hard behind the scenes to get stuff done. Magic wands are easy, organisation takes time.

For clear, solid advice and guidance in a crisis, look no further than Rishi S.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

For clear, solid advice and guidance in a crisis, look no further than Rishi S.

Doing what is needed.👍

 

Edited by ricardo

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You seriously think he is guiding this. In the real world there is no way the politcians have the knowledge experience or slkills to deal with this. In the real world they are reliant on their experienced qualified expert unelected internal and expert advisers. The difference is Rishi is a clerer communicator than Boris.  

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22 minutes ago, T said:

You seriously think he is guiding this. In the real world there is no way the politicians have the knowledge experience or skills to deal with this. In the real world they are reliant on their experienced qualified expert unelected internal and expert advisers. The difference is Rishi is a clerer communicator than Boris.  

Yes, Rishi is doing a good job. Clear communication is one of the biggest assets for any leader. 

Compassionate Conservatism is apparently not dead after all. Others in the Gov please note ... 

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Personally -  think he should have gone for a universal (taxable) income - Say 25K/year.

My guess is that all the current systems are too complicated, means tested and no doubt many will still fall between the cracks.

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58 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I expect there are a lot of people working very hard behind the scenes to get stuff done. Magic wands are easy, organisation takes time.

Exactly - which is why people are voicing very negative opinions about the amount of time this government wasted when it should have been preparing........

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4 hours ago, Surfer said:

Yeah I agree. It's an obvious fit to a manufacturer. May just be a case of over zealous reporting of the involvement of a well known name. So no harm IMO. All power to anyone who can quickly build up ventilator capacity for the NHS (and other healthcare systems) 

Some semi-positive news out today on UK trend for new cases? Seems surprising given the lock down is only a few days old, but still if it is true that is a good sign. We'll see by early next week I guess. 

On the other hand, read this and weep. I pre-apologize if the USA become the incubator of a second round of infection in a few months. There was a pandemic response plan. Of course it was ignored. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

The total UK stats for new cases / deaths is not out yet, but given the reports from London of a tsunami of infected at their hospitals, along with a higher amount of new cases from Wales, Scotland i expect  a quite high increase in cases / deaths today.

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There we go, just as i typed the above the new stats come out...113 new deaths today and around 2000 new cases...much higher than before, but not unexpected. Testings  done now at 104,000+

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15 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

There we go, just as i typed the above the new stats come out...113 new deaths today and around 2000 new cases...much higher than before, but not unexpected. Testings  done now at 104,000+

Yes, just posted on the other thread but perhaps I should stick to non football here for this subject. It might be really the start of the peak period coming right now. It's going to be very sad, frightening and chaotic isn't it.

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I didn't envy the Chancellor working out the system for the self employed. It is true in so many cases that that based on their tax returns, many will be receiving very little because of the nature of what they can claim for and other allowances. Cash in hand is a great part of the self employed lifestyle.

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41 minutes ago, Herman said:

This may explain the numbers.

 

So the advice here for number followers is add today and yesterdays figures and divide by 2 to get an average.

So today's figures are not as alarming as they might otherwise be as they were counted over a period greater than 24 hours.

 

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37 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I didn't envy the Chancellor working out the system for the self employed. It is true in so many cases that that based on their tax returns, many will be receiving very little because of the nature of what they can claim for and other allowances. Cash in hand is a great part of the self employed lifestyle.

Another problem is that the payment is based on average monthly income - not an unreasonable idea in many ways but unfortunately quite a lot of self employed people have earnings which are quite seasonal. I have several family members involved in the music/entertainment business who would normally earn a big chunk of their annual income over the next 4-5 months, i.e. at festivals big and small.

80% of their average monthly income is certainly better than nothing but it won't go anywhere near replacing what they are going to lose out on over the next few months so unless the crisis (and the payments) continues through the winter  they're still going to be in a very difficult position later in the year.

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Given the c 2 week delay between restrictions and cases and the one month delay between infection and death I suspect the numbers are going to get a lot more alarming before improving 

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Yep...todays death toll should be no surprise...just look around at all our neighbours..France  nearly 400 deaths...around 80 in Netherlands and their population is way smaller than ours...50 or 60 in Belgium...even Germany's death toll is soaring now compared to a week ago there. Forget who it was yesterday but a leading light seemed to be having an optimistic view expressing that UK would likely end up with less than 20k deaths now...considering how long this will likely last in terms of months or longer i still think 50k or more is realistic.

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Fascinating to see how quickly some of our police forces change into Stasi, Humberside police now producing an online report form to snitch on your neighbour, a couple and their dog walking in the Dales being monitored by police drone,

.

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The one I have seen shows people in perfect isolation. Not sure the police spending thousands on a helicopter joyride is money well spent. 

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Yeh, it’s an insight into what can happen very quickly if you create the right environment. When we are governed by absolute diktat, which I’m not saying is wrong atm, there are some that  lose all sense of any proportionality and stop thinking.

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23 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yeh, it’s an insight into what can happen very quickly if you create the right environment. When we are governed by absolute diktat, which I’m not saying is wrong atm, there are some that  lose all sense of any proportionality and stop thinking.

New World Order😉

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The Dyson story doesn't seem to be going away. Something fishy about it. 

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