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paul moy

Wuhan coronavirus

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3 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Thx for that YF, it was interesting and i welcome that from somebody who has actually been there and know a bit what they are talking about. My particular post was not at all to do with the general population or even what style of government China has, i was merely bringing the point that these food markets were undoubtedly an enormous health hazard and considering the SARS outbreak happened  17 years ago in  similar  place, i was merely saying such places should long ago been closed down and that even if the small elite wanted to carry on with their habit, at least make these markets highly sanitised and healthy so they are not a risk to its own and the worlds populations.

Its also been recognised  that China contributes highly to world levels of pollution, a problem that has often before been associated with other nations at various times in history. It is by no means alone of course, India to kicks out huge amounts of pollution to. Even in the UK, as recently as the 1950s, big urban cities had evil smog like pollution on calm days due to the abundance of coal fires and other pollutanting factors. Its merely an observation on my part that when things like air pollution is  dangerous, food markets are un sanitised enough to create  and cause epidemics etc, then the nation that is making these problems, whomever it may be, should really really act to clean up its own mess, for the sake of its own population first, and for the  entire sake of the globe secondly.

Yes - sorry it was bit of an essay - but I'd seen several rather 'limited' posts disparaging China and while I don't wish to be an apologist we do need some first-hand 'balance'. I'm sure the Chinese and Americans don't generally think a quick trip to London to see HoP,  Buck Palace, Trafalgar Square followed by Oxford gives them a full insight into everyday normal gritty UK life! I happened to tag it onto your post.

China is of course acting quite quickly on pollution too (yes I've seen it - even seen a haze inside the actual airport terminal buildings) - and yes sadly it's still building too many coal fired stations but at the same time look where all those new solar cells and the huge price drops for such are coming from. It's the scale and resources of the place that we fail to understand (and terrifies Trump) when it puts it's mind and talents to something.

Controlling / defeating the virus in Hubei (60M people - good UK comparison - Gt. Wuhan = Gt. London) was just a prime example.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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23 minutes ago, Surfer said:

I always knew it was a pandemic says President Trump. There are just no words for this.... 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/17/trump-dissed-coronavirus-pandemic-worry-now-claims-he-warned-about-it.html

Yes indeed, he must have just got his words a little mixed up when he described it as a 'Democratic hoax' - what a total idiot, probably doesn't know the difference between a pandemic and a pantomime 🤣🤣

Still he has at least provided the Democrats with a series of blisteringly stupid live quotes which I'm sure we'll get to see endlessly as the election over there really gets into gear.

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1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

....... which I'm sure we'll get to see endlessly as the election over there really gets into gear.

Unfortunately a characteristic of American politics is election season has become permanent. I wish politicians would find some time to do governing between these biennial Congressional elections. 

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5 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

If they are increasing testing capacity then that is very good news but I think they are being very disingenuous in claiming that we are testing more than 'most' other countries in the world - yes, sure we are doing more testing than loads of countries, Luxembourg, Latvia, Serbia etc, etc etc but we have been doing, and currently still are doing, a lot less testing than the countries which are successfully tackling this crisis.

As you yourself say, and I have been saying for a while, testing NHS staff should be a priority. Its a total no brainer and should have been happening for at least a week if not longer.

Whilst figures from our own country about testing is easy to obtain, other countries are less open about their testing numbers.

Last I checked, the only European country that had tested more than ours was Italy. The only other countries who have tested more than ours was China (although very current data is non-existent), South Korea and Russia (hmmm). So fifth highest - not very disingenuous in stating 'most' really.

4 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

From what I've seen hard and fast figures on testing are pretty scarce, apart from some of the asian countries that are doing well and therefore inevitably paint us in a bad light.

But I based my judgement mainly on the policies, strategies and what different countries appear to be trying to achieve....

So no actual data then. Just a guess. Hmmm.

4 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

The UK has consistently downplayed the importance of testing (probably to try and obscure our lack of capacity) even in the light of very explicit advice from the WHO and also the experience of other countries who were hit earlier than us.

You must have not been reading the same news sources I have:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51814874

I'm also sure that in Monday's news conference the boffins stated they understood the importance of focused testing and were pushing the numbers up as quickly as possible. Numbers have increased, with yesterday seeing the most tested in one day so far. Need to get it up to 10,000 asap though.

OTBC

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They don't seem to be testing NHS staff which seems a bit daft to me. Shouldn't they be a priority? 

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5 hours ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

 

Whilst figures from our own country about testing is easy to obtain, other countries are less open about their testing numbers.

Last I checked, the only European country that had tested more than ours was Italy. The only other countries who have tested more than ours was China (although very current data is non-existent), South Korea and Russia (hmmm). So fifth highest - not very disingenuous in stating 'most' really.

So no actual data then. Just a guess. Hmmm.

You must have not been reading the same news sources I have:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51814874

I'm also sure that in Monday's news conference the boffins stated they understood the importance of focused testing and were pushing the numbers up as quickly as possible. Numbers have increased, with yesterday seeing the most tested in one day so far. Need to get it up to 10,000 asap though.

OTBC

👍

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28 minutes ago, Herman said:

They don't seem to be testing NHS staff which seems a bit daft to me. Shouldn't they be a priority? 

Definitely should be a priority. 

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There is no requirement in democracy to run down health services or not to act with consideration for other people or to ignore expert advice and think you know better than experts. These are question of society not democracy.
 

 These are absolutely essential factors for dealing with this yet still some people are still more concerned about their individualistic and natiolistic ideologies.
 

Hardly surprising that people who are dismissive of expert advice, other people’s jobs, other races, and other religions are also dismissive of other people’s lives.

People need to less concerned about ideology and more concerned about other people lives to deal with this. Clearly some people still don’t grasp this. Fortunately I now live somewhere that grasps these matters. 

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Good old GBP going down through £1.20 (and €1.09)

Next stop basement bargain.

The joys of not being a true reserve currency and balance of payment deficits.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Good old GBP going down through £1.20 (and €1.09)

Next stop basement bargain.

The joys of not being a true reserve currency and balance of payment deficits.

Terrible.  The holiday I have booked for April will be more expensive.

  • Haha 1

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3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Good old GBP going down through £1.20 (and €1.09)

Next stop basement bargain.

The joys of not being a true reserve currency and balance of payment deficits.

image.png.cba3fb553ec53f6f47e16cc160df701b.png

 

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3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Good old GBP going down through £1.20 (and €1.09)

Next stop basement bargain.

The joys of not being a true reserve currency and balance of payment deficits.

Lots of Spaniards and Italians booking cheap getaway holidays on the Norfolk Broads.😉

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The National Parks are keeping some of their parks and gardens open, free, while this goes on. Houses and cafés will be shut so take your own flask. 

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5 hours ago, T said:

There is no requirement in democracy to run down health services or not to act with consideration for other people or to ignore expert advice and think you know better than experts. 

That is why no democracy has run down their health services and why the NHS has continually  received above inflation yearly investment.

As for experts, the disagreement between them over the best course of action should give you pause to think carefully before making ridiculous statements.

Edited by ricardo
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5 minutes ago, Herman said:

The National Parks are keeping some of their parks and gardens open, free, while this goes on. Houses and cafés will be shut so take your own flask. 

Very sensible but a bit hard on Costa and Starbucks.👍

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42 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Terrible.  The holiday I have booked for April will be more expensive.

I hope it was nowhere nice. 😉

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On 16/03/2020 at 23:27, Van wink said:

Cant follow the approach on schools, I've read all the arguments I could find for keeping them open but not logical.There will be a u turn by the end of the week I suspect.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-covid19-schools-closing-closed-17943478

All schools in Wales to close from Friday

Edited by Van wink

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Scotland too now.

Parents warned not to expect that schools will re-open before the summer holidays.

 

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The UK NHS has significantly less capacity than other European countries and has lost lots of doctors and nurses because of Brexit. 
 

all experts are fundamentally agreed on a policy of contain delay mitigate and research. This is what is happening everywhere. There are some punters and you tubers who delude themselves that they know better than the CMO and CSA but by all means share your models and analysis and say why your models analysis and assumptions are better than those of the CMO and CSA. based on evidence otherwise it is just ignorance and an over inflated ego if you can not actually provide any evidence to back up your  arguments. 

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1 minute ago, wooster said:

Scotland too now.

Parents warned not to expect that schools will re-open before the summer holidays.

 

Have they given them 6 months homework?

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1 minute ago, T said:

 

all experts are fundamentally agreed on a policy of contain delay mitigate and research.

They are now but have had to change their advice after being overtaken by events. There have been plenty of studies and examples of how this has been brought under control by countries such as China, S Korea, Taiwan etc. Had you read any of these you would have been aware of asymptomatic spread and the need for 15% requiring hospitalisation wasin the public domain weeks ago.

This information has been freely available to all who cared to investigate and those that said it would be impossible to lockdown a western society in a similar manner are now going to have egg on their faces.

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Well here's a rough mix of stats from Worldometer with snippets of info that dont prove much in themselves. Tbh, apart from the now known  nations of China, S.Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Japan..thats 5 nations...the entire rest of the world has as yet, nowhere near the same stabilising or decreasing  numbers of  new cases due to many factors.

Australia...110 new cases (highest in a day) for 565 total. Level 4 travel ban...meaning travel ban applies to entire world. Government decides that Schools will stay open.

Places with first cases  are Zambia,  Montserrat,  Djibouti, New Caledonia,  Kyrgystan.

Belgium latest EU nation to go into Italy style lockdown.

Indonesia has its highest daily increase in new cases along with 12 new deaths to total 19 deaths.

Many South American nations now have cases in the 100s whereas just a week ago they had barely a handful.

Places with no. of confirmed cases per 1 million population..San Marino 3507, Faeroe Isles 1187, Iceland 733., Italy 521,  Spain 293, Germany 120, S. Korea 124, China 56, Singapore 45, UK 29, USA 20, Japan 7, India 0.1.

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