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paul moy

Wuhan coronavirus

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28 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I don't  want to sound flippant but isn't  that what all dictatorships say? 

" It's  for your own good if we  just exercise a bit of control until things are running ok".

Indeed they do.

But in the UK I think in a really severe crisis (such as this) we would normally grant the government the benefit of the doubt fairly readily.

Unfortunately, again the character and the track record of the Prime Minister makes this far less likely -  he has already shown considerable disregard, if not downright contempt, for some the niceties and conventions of our Parliament and a definite dictatorly streak in trying to avoid scrutiny by the media coupled with pressuring where he can those who he expects to be critical.

I believe some of the emergency measures already introduced can live for two years which seems and extraordinarily long time when facing a crisis he is predicting can be tackled within 12 weeks.

So I would be extremely reluctant to grant him any (more) powers that touched on civil liberties and even if it is genuinely necessary to lockdown London (which it probably is) then I think any such powers that are granted should be specific to just the region affected and severely time limited, i.e. probably no more than 30 days.

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We all know about the lockdown in China that seems to have had  excellent results in controlling  coronavirus. But i have been looking at South Korea, a nation that has been battling the virus  quite a longer time than Europe. In SK there has been no lockdown of any kind, but after a couple months or more the amount of those recovering is exceeding new confirmed cases. Theyve a system where they test anybody who has been in contact with a confirmed case. vigourous tracing which includes a few Orwellian  operations that likely could not happen in Europe like credit card activity, CCS footage and mobile phone tracking.

Also SK has had a constant daily testing capacity of 15,000, allowing them to build to nearly 300,000 testings, way higher than anywhere else. It also shows, that with big effort, mixed with some debatable practices that could be classed as to snoopy in western lands, that lockdown is not the only way to get on top of controlling the spread of the virus.

Edited by Essjayess
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3 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Indeed they do.

But in the UK I think in a really severe crisis (such as this) we would normally grant the government the benefit of the doubt fairly readily.

Unfortunately, again the character and the track record of the Prime Minister makes this far less likely -  he has already shown considerable disregard, if not downright contempt, for some the niceties and conventions of our Parliament and a definite dictatorly streak in trying to avoid scrutiny by the media coupled with pressuring where he can those who he expects to be critical.

I believe some of the emergency measures already introduced can live for two years which seems and extraordinarily long time when facing a crisis he is predicting can be tackled within 12 weeks.

So I would be extremely reluctant to grant him any (more) powers that touched on civil liberties and even if it is genuinely necessary to lockdown London (which it probably is) then I think any such powers that are granted should be specific to just the region affected and severely time limited, i.e. probably no more than 30 days.

Whatever emergency measures are enacted they should all have a sunset clause. History is full of emergency measures that continue long after thr emergency has lifted.

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2 hours ago, Surfer said:

Any equivalent to this (non-governmental in this case) interactive map of cases for the UK or for Europe?

Note, the data is from pubic sources, but "recovered" is apparently not something generally being reported out. 

https://www.coronainusa.com

UK map

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14

OTBC

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Well I’m living in a locked down disaster zone which is a few weeks ahead of the UK curve and I can report working as normal from home and the supermarkets are fully restocked. It was only ever foolish selfish people spreading fear on the social Media and people panic buying causing a temporary  problem. People should be more sensible and responsible about what they post on social Media and what they buy and show more concern for other people and less for their own ego. 

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2 minutes ago, T said:

Well I’m living in a locked down disaster zone which is a few weeks ahead of the UK curve and I can report working as normal from home and the supermarkets are fully restocked. It was only ever foolish selfish people spreading fear on the social Media and people panic buying causing a temporary  problem. People should be more sensible and responsible about what they post on social Media and what they buy and show more concern for other people and less for their own ego. 

Can't disagree with any of that but sadly here the panic buying appears to be still getting worse.

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40 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

We all know about the lockdown in China that seems to have had  excellent results in controlling  coronavirus. But i have been looking at South Korea, a nation that has been battling the virus  quite a longer time than Europe. In SK there has been no lockdown of any kind, but after a couple months or more the amount of those recovering is exceeding new confirmed cases. Theyve a system where they test anybody who has been in contact with a confirmed case. vigourous tracing which includes a few Orwellian  operations that likely could not happen in Europe like credit card activity, CCS footage and mobile phone tracking.

Also SK has had a constant daily testing capacity of 15,000, allowing them to build to nearly 300,000 testings, way higher than anywhere else. It also shows, that with big effort, mixed with some debatable practices that could be classed as to snoopy in western lands, that lockdown is not the only way to get on top of controlling the spread of the virus.

I suspect we will look to try to move in this direction as we build up testing not and treatment capacity 

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Never, ever, ever, ever go to this idiot Gammons pubs.

 

 

Hopefully more people will now see him for the totally self interested low life he is. I think the UK govt is sympathetic to the thinking but when they plugged the numbers from Italy into the model went oh F***

 Not something I would be saying publicly if I was him just in case I ever needed to go through the triage process but he was never the.brightest. 

Edited by T

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Looks like pubs and clubs and leisure centres in London will be closed down today.

Another incremental move, why not just close the City down now, its going to happen soon anyway.

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The problem in the UK as noted in the SAGE reports is social acceptance in a society which has been encouraged to ignore expert advice as nonsense.

I live in a society with much greater social acceptance and emphasis on logic reason analysis experts and social cohesion so there is much greater acceptance of following expert advice. There is also calm and order in the supermarkets.

You can’t easily say people are tired of experts and should ignore them in one breath and they we should follow their advice in another. The UK has deep social problems as we have seen in the last few years which makes imposing restrictions far harder in the UK than other countries where they are just accepted for their own good. 

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Job retension scheme sounds like good news for workers and should ease a lot of worries.

Well done Rishi Sunak

Edited by ricardo

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As a self employed person there’s nothing there of any help as far as I can see. Looks as if our livelihoods don’t count 

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I think the government are trying to do their bit. It is now up to individuals to do their bit. 
 

we were told today we will just keep going as best we can be it months or a year not just working for ourselves but also pro bono community work. This is going to be really rough but we know from previous crises we will come out the other side with some tragic losses along the way  

meanwhile trump just goes for let’s  blame foreigners. Boris is a saint in comparison. 

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I strongly suspect measures for the self employed will follow. 

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38 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Job retension scheme sounds like good news for workers and should ease a lot of worries.

Well done Rishi Sunak

Let’s hope it’s all that it seems, very impressed!

Edited by Van wink

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Italy deaths and new confirmed are still rising dat by day at an alarming rate.

961 deaths in Europe so far today, France  numbers not out yet, so will be way above 1,000

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Has there been much discussion about why Germany seems to be doing so much better on deaths / cases ratio? 

Are they testing more frequently so have registered more "Active" cases, most of which are mild / asymptomatic?

Germany.jpg

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7 minutes ago, T said:

I strongly suspect measures for the self employed will follow. 

Indeed, I think today is about helping employees not becoming unemployed. Plus giving businesses the ability to retain the people they will need to recover.

Edited by ricardo

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Germany has over 4 times ICUs than UK. There is a healthier culture than the UK. 

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Never, ever, ever, ever go to this idiot Gammons pubs.

 

 

Well as he's quoting the Dutch government, I happen to know from friends that all the pubs and restaurants are closed. 

This has also been reported on by UK newspapers - 

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-netherlands-update-news-close-schools-bars-restaurants-a9403251.html

It's not a full lockdown as in Belgium etc, but there are no pubs open.

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13 minutes ago, JF said:

As a self employed person there’s nothing there of any help as far as I can see. Looks as if our livelihoods don’t count 

"Sunak also outlines help for self-employed people -- suspending the minimum income floor for universal credit.
That means self-employed people can now access, in full, Universal Credit at a rate equivalent to Statutory Sick Pay for employees, he explains."

There might be more help but that's one thing I've read.

OTBC

Edited by Disco Dales Jockstrap

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Can't criticise anyone at the podium this afternoon. I will criticise stupid journos who ask pathetic questions such as how long will they be shut.o

Decisive action like this will give a support to nearly everyone and relieve a lot of anxiety.

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Tim Martin is a successful businessman but a piece of Shiite when it comes to anything outside his empire

Now they have to shut, he can replace the border dirty, sticky carpets

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6 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

"Sunak also outlines help for self-employed people -- suspending the minimum income floor for universal credit.
That means self-employed people can now access, in full, Universal Credit at a rate equivalent to Statutory Sick Pay for employees, he explains."

There might be more help but that's one thing I've read.

OTBC

Yeah I think you’re talking about a hundred quid a week there. I’m not totally sure as I’ve always been self employed and have never been out of work, but I think I was entitled to that anyway as I have a full stamp paid. Lost a lot of future jobs this week and if they don’t do something to prop up people like myself, if the **** hits the fan then when this is all over the building industry will be thread bare 

Edited by JF

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3 minutes ago, JF said:

Yeah I think you’re talking about a hundred quid a week there. I’m not totally sure as I’ve always been self employed and have never been out of work, but I think I was entitled to that anyway as I have a full stamp paid. Lost a lot of future jobs this week and if they don’t do something to prop up people like myself if the **** hits the fan then when this is all over the building industry will be thread bare 

Sorry to hear that JF. Hope there are further measures to help people in your position.

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26 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Job retension scheme sounds like good news for workers and should ease a lot of worries.

Well done Rishi Sunak

They must be reading this thread. 😉

This will relieve a lot of worried people. More to be done but can't complain today.

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3 hours ago, ricardo said:

Whatever emergency measures are enacted they should all have a sunset clause. History is full of emergency measures that continue long after thr emergency has lifted.

World war 1 pub opening hours!

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