A Load of Squit 5,067 Posted March 20, 2020 Never, ever, ever, ever go to this idiot Gammons pubs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,976 Posted March 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, ricardo said: I don't want to sound flippant but isn't that what all dictatorships say? " It's for your own good if we just exercise a bit of control until things are running ok". Indeed they do. But in the UK I think in a really severe crisis (such as this) we would normally grant the government the benefit of the doubt fairly readily. Unfortunately, again the character and the track record of the Prime Minister makes this far less likely - he has already shown considerable disregard, if not downright contempt, for some the niceties and conventions of our Parliament and a definite dictatorly streak in trying to avoid scrutiny by the media coupled with pressuring where he can those who he expects to be critical. I believe some of the emergency measures already introduced can live for two years which seems and extraordinarily long time when facing a crisis he is predicting can be tackled within 12 weeks. So I would be extremely reluctant to grant him any (more) powers that touched on civil liberties and even if it is genuinely necessary to lockdown London (which it probably is) then I think any such powers that are granted should be specific to just the region affected and severely time limited, i.e. probably no more than 30 days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essjayess 307 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) We all know about the lockdown in China that seems to have had excellent results in controlling coronavirus. But i have been looking at South Korea, a nation that has been battling the virus quite a longer time than Europe. In SK there has been no lockdown of any kind, but after a couple months or more the amount of those recovering is exceeding new confirmed cases. Theyve a system where they test anybody who has been in contact with a confirmed case. vigourous tracing which includes a few Orwellian operations that likely could not happen in Europe like credit card activity, CCS footage and mobile phone tracking. Also SK has had a constant daily testing capacity of 15,000, allowing them to build to nearly 300,000 testings, way higher than anywhere else. It also shows, that with big effort, mixed with some debatable practices that could be classed as to snoopy in western lands, that lockdown is not the only way to get on top of controlling the spread of the virus. Edited March 20, 2020 by Essjayess spelling corrections 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted March 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said: Indeed they do. But in the UK I think in a really severe crisis (such as this) we would normally grant the government the benefit of the doubt fairly readily. Unfortunately, again the character and the track record of the Prime Minister makes this far less likely - he has already shown considerable disregard, if not downright contempt, for some the niceties and conventions of our Parliament and a definite dictatorly streak in trying to avoid scrutiny by the media coupled with pressuring where he can those who he expects to be critical. I believe some of the emergency measures already introduced can live for two years which seems and extraordinarily long time when facing a crisis he is predicting can be tackled within 12 weeks. So I would be extremely reluctant to grant him any (more) powers that touched on civil liberties and even if it is genuinely necessary to lockdown London (which it probably is) then I think any such powers that are granted should be specific to just the region affected and severely time limited, i.e. probably no more than 30 days. Whatever emergency measures are enacted they should all have a sunset clause. History is full of emergency measures that continue long after thr emergency has lifted. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891 Posted March 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Surfer said: Any equivalent to this (non-governmental in this case) interactive map of cases for the UK or for Europe? Note, the data is from pubic sources, but "recovered" is apparently not something generally being reported out. https://www.coronainusa.com UK map https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14 OTBC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 Well I’m living in a locked down disaster zone which is a few weeks ahead of the UK curve and I can report working as normal from home and the supermarkets are fully restocked. It was only ever foolish selfish people spreading fear on the social Media and people panic buying causing a temporary problem. People should be more sensible and responsible about what they post on social Media and what they buy and show more concern for other people and less for their own ego. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,976 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) . Edited March 20, 2020 by Creative Midfielder Site duplicating posts again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Creative Midfielder 1,976 Posted March 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, T said: Well I’m living in a locked down disaster zone which is a few weeks ahead of the UK curve and I can report working as normal from home and the supermarkets are fully restocked. It was only ever foolish selfish people spreading fear on the social Media and people panic buying causing a temporary problem. People should be more sensible and responsible about what they post on social Media and what they buy and show more concern for other people and less for their own ego. Can't disagree with any of that but sadly here the panic buying appears to be still getting worse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 40 minutes ago, Essjayess said: We all know about the lockdown in China that seems to have had excellent results in controlling coronavirus. But i have been looking at South Korea, a nation that has been battling the virus quite a longer time than Europe. In SK there has been no lockdown of any kind, but after a couple months or more the amount of those recovering is exceeding new confirmed cases. Theyve a system where they test anybody who has been in contact with a confirmed case. vigourous tracing which includes a few Orwellian operations that likely could not happen in Europe like credit card activity, CCS footage and mobile phone tracking. Also SK has had a constant daily testing capacity of 15,000, allowing them to build to nearly 300,000 testings, way higher than anywhere else. It also shows, that with big effort, mixed with some debatable practices that could be classed as to snoopy in western lands, that lockdown is not the only way to get on top of controlling the spread of the virus. I suspect we will look to try to move in this direction as we build up testing not and treatment capacity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said: Never, ever, ever, ever go to this idiot Gammons pubs. Hopefully more people will now see him for the totally self interested low life he is. I think the UK govt is sympathetic to the thinking but when they plugged the numbers from Italy into the model went oh F*** Not something I would be saying publicly if I was him just in case I ever needed to go through the triage process but he was never the.brightest. Edited March 20, 2020 by T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted March 20, 2020 Looks like pubs and clubs and leisure centres in London will be closed down today. Another incremental move, why not just close the City down now, its going to happen soon anyway. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 The problem in the UK as noted in the SAGE reports is social acceptance in a society which has been encouraged to ignore expert advice as nonsense. I live in a society with much greater social acceptance and emphasis on logic reason analysis experts and social cohesion so there is much greater acceptance of following expert advice. There is also calm and order in the supermarkets. You can’t easily say people are tired of experts and should ignore them in one breath and they we should follow their advice in another. The UK has deep social problems as we have seen in the last few years which makes imposing restrictions far harder in the UK than other countries where they are just accepted for their own good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) Job retension scheme sounds like good news for workers and should ease a lot of worries. Well done Rishi Sunak Edited March 20, 2020 by ricardo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted March 20, 2020 As a self employed person there’s nothing there of any help as far as I can see. Looks as if our livelihoods don’t count Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 I think the government are trying to do their bit. It is now up to individuals to do their bit. we were told today we will just keep going as best we can be it months or a year not just working for ourselves but also pro bono community work. This is going to be really rough but we know from previous crises we will come out the other side with some tragic losses along the way meanwhile trump just goes for let’s blame foreigners. Boris is a saint in comparison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 I strongly suspect measures for the self employed will follow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, ricardo said: Job retension scheme sounds like good news for workers and should ease a lot of worries. Well done Rishi Sunak Let’s hope it’s all that it seems, very impressed! Edited March 20, 2020 by Van wink Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essjayess 307 Posted March 20, 2020 Italy deaths and new confirmed are still rising dat by day at an alarming rate. 961 deaths in Europe so far today, France numbers not out yet, so will be way above 1,000 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted March 20, 2020 Has there been much discussion about why Germany seems to be doing so much better on deaths / cases ratio? Are they testing more frequently so have registered more "Active" cases, most of which are mild / asymptomatic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, T said: I strongly suspect measures for the self employed will follow. Indeed, I think today is about helping employees not becoming unemployed. Plus giving businesses the ability to retain the people they will need to recover. Edited March 20, 2020 by ricardo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 20, 2020 Germany has over 4 times ICUs than UK. There is a healthier culture than the UK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said: Never, ever, ever, ever go to this idiot Gammons pubs. Well as he's quoting the Dutch government, I happen to know from friends that all the pubs and restaurants are closed. This has also been reported on by UK newspapers - www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-netherlands-update-news-close-schools-bars-restaurants-a9403251.html It's not a full lockdown as in Belgium etc, but there are no pubs open. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, JF said: As a self employed person there’s nothing there of any help as far as I can see. Looks as if our livelihoods don’t count "Sunak also outlines help for self-employed people -- suspending the minimum income floor for universal credit.That means self-employed people can now access, in full, Universal Credit at a rate equivalent to Statutory Sick Pay for employees, he explains." There might be more help but that's one thing I've read. OTBC Edited March 20, 2020 by Disco Dales Jockstrap Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted March 20, 2020 Can't criticise anyone at the podium this afternoon. I will criticise stupid journos who ask pathetic questions such as how long will they be shut.o Decisive action like this will give a support to nearly everyone and relieve a lot of anxiety. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted March 20, 2020 Tim Martin is a successful businessman but a piece of Shiite when it comes to anything outside his empire Now they have to shut, he can replace the border dirty, sticky carpets 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted March 20, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said: "Sunak also outlines help for self-employed people -- suspending the minimum income floor for universal credit.That means self-employed people can now access, in full, Universal Credit at a rate equivalent to Statutory Sick Pay for employees, he explains." There might be more help but that's one thing I've read. OTBC Yeah I think you’re talking about a hundred quid a week there. I’m not totally sure as I’ve always been self employed and have never been out of work, but I think I was entitled to that anyway as I have a full stamp paid. Lost a lot of future jobs this week and if they don’t do something to prop up people like myself, if the **** hits the fan then when this is all over the building industry will be thread bare Edited March 20, 2020 by JF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted March 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, JF said: Yeah I think you’re talking about a hundred quid a week there. I’m not totally sure as I’ve always been self employed and have never been out of work, but I think I was entitled to that anyway as I have a full stamp paid. Lost a lot of future jobs this week and if they don’t do something to prop up people like myself if the **** hits the fan then when this is all over the building industry will be thread bare Sorry to hear that JF. Hope there are further measures to help people in your position. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essjayess 307 Posted March 20, 2020 Todays stats in UK, +714 new cases (3983 total) 40 deaths (184 total). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,586 Posted March 20, 2020 26 minutes ago, ricardo said: Job retension scheme sounds like good news for workers and should ease a lot of worries. Well done Rishi Sunak They must be reading this thread. 😉 This will relieve a lot of worried people. More to be done but can't complain today. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,167 Posted March 20, 2020 3 hours ago, ricardo said: Whatever emergency measures are enacted they should all have a sunset clause. History is full of emergency measures that continue long after thr emergency has lifted. World war 1 pub opening hours! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites