Herman 9,710 Posted February 10, 2020 Doing that Ricardo. But also pushing emotions to one side and looking at the cold, hard numbers. Be worried, be vigilant but be calm and don't push unnecessary rumours. (I'm looking in Moyo's general direction.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,339 Posted February 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Herman said: Doing that Ricardo. But also pushing emotions to one side and looking at the cold, hard numbers. Be worried, be vigilant but be calm and don't push unnecessary rumours. (I'm looking in Moyo's general direction.) People with compromised immune systems need to be extra careful. I am one of them unfortunately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,324 Posted February 10, 2020 7 hours ago, MooreMarriot said: No one but an anti-vaccination crank and paranoid conspiracy theorist with no relevant expertise , qualifications or evidence to back up anything he says. Ok, so here is the scientific evidence that they claim backs up that this began in a laboratory. Please provide your scientific criticism of this evidence. Saying it's the work of cranks is an opinion and not evidence. Over to you. https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooreMarriot 307 Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said: Ok, so here is the scientific evidence that they claim backs up that this began in a laboratory. Please provide your scientific criticism of this evidence. Saying it's the work of cranks is an opinion and not evidence. Over to you. https://jameslyonsweiler.com/2020/01/30/on-the-origins-of-the-2019-ncov-virus-wuhan-china/ Here is the evidence from a proper scientist , not a full time anti-vaccination crank pseudo scientist. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/james-lyons-weiler-coronavirus-conspiracy-vaccine/ And by the way ,James Lyons-Weiler has already withdrawn his claim that the coronavirus is a man made vaccine that escaped from a lab . Try and keep up . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 11 hours ago, ricardo said: People with compromised immune systems need to be extra careful. I am one of them unfortunately. There are very many vulnerable people, their concerns should not be dismissed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daz Sparks 1,140 Posted February 11, 2020 Just now, Van wink said: There are very many vulnerable people, their concerns should not be dismissed. I also fall into the immuno comprised bracket, I am concerned about nCOV, but not unduly alarmed. The global nature of modern society is a virus' dream, so I trying to stay as "un-global" as possible for now. 😐 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, MooreMarriot said: Here is the evidence from a proper scientist , not a full time anti-vaccination crank pseudo scientist. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/james-lyons-weiler-coronavirus-conspiracy-vaccine/ And by the way ,James Lyons-Weiler has already withdrawn his claim that the coronavirus is a man made vaccine that escaped from a lab . Try and keep up . It’s not unheard of for viruses to leap the species barrier which seems to be what has happened here. The fear is how it may mutate, if at all. The thing we have on our side is that historically novel viruses took years of study to identify and determine aetiology, we have the best brains in the world looking at this one. Edited February 11, 2020 by Van wink Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Daz Sparks said: I also fall into the immuno comprised bracket, I am concerned about nCOV, but not unduly alarmed. The global nature of modern society is a virus' dream, so I trying to stay as "un-global" as possible for now. 😐 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,317 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, Van wink said: It’s not a touch of the flu if you react badly, a low death rate is only reassuring if there is are a limited number of infections. Not surprising to see Remainers unable to grasp what’s actually happening here. I suspect they will soon be blaming those unlucky enough to get the infection for being dumb and breathing too often This is very revealing Van Wink. So anybody that now disagrees with your world view or on any topic (however cherry-picked the view may be) is automatically a Remainer? Perhaps people that may disagree have weighed up the evidence from balanced sources and chosen a different point of view? You need to pull that slipped mask back up...or you may catch a cold. 😉😉😉 Here are the facts from the WHO (although no doubt they will be disregarded as being in the pay of Space Lizards, Big Pharma and the EU). https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019 Apples Edited February 11, 2020 by Mr Apples Spelling error. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,339 Posted February 11, 2020 The WHO appear to have been behind the curve from the word go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,317 Posted February 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, ricardo said: The WHO appear to have been behind the curve from the word go. Based on what evidence? 🤔 Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,710 Posted February 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, ricardo said: The WHO appear to have been behind the curve from the word go. I blame that old gammon Daltrey. I'll get my coat..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Mr Apples said: Based on what evidence? 🤔 Apples From the outset the WHO were reluctant to declare a worldwide emergency as it did not want to damage its relationship with China who they believed were co-operating wholeheartedly and could have retreated into its shell of secrecy. This was announced and well publicised a few weeks ago. Declaring an emergency earlier IMO would actually have been a good thing, but even then, governments and authorities in the UK for instance would still have been inactive, probably due to economic reasons. All flights and connections to China, return of students from China for instance should have been stopped very quickly if they were serious. I hope I'm wrong but universities could be incubating this disease at this very moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rock The Boat 1,324 Posted February 11, 2020 4 hours ago, MooreMarriot said: Here is the evidence from a proper scientist , not a full time anti-vaccination crank pseudo scientist. https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/james-lyons-weiler-coronavirus-conspiracy-vaccine/ And by the way ,James Lyons-Weiler has already withdrawn his claim that the coronavirus is a man made vaccine that escaped from a lab . Try and keep up . That was a very poor attempt at a rebuttal with a lot of non-scientific padding such as talking about a Bill Gates conspiracy theories which have absolutely nothing to do with what's under discussion here. When your author starts off his piece with such puffery it undermines the case he is making. When you get to the core of the argument - has a piece of gene code been inserted into the DNA in the laboratory - then your author grudgingly admits there are similarities in the gene code that would support this theory. This is pretty good alignment, but certainly nowhere near slam dunk evidence for the origin of 2019-nCoV being the SARS-like spike protein coding sequence inserted into pShuttle-SN, especially when it’s almost certainly more likely that this sequence could have arisen naturally, given how many coronaviruses have SARS-like sequences in them. If this particular sequence in 2019-nCoV actually did come from the vector and the version of the SARS spike protein gene that was inserted into pShuttle to make pShuttle-SN, there should be large swaths of 100% match, if not 100% match. So even the scientists at the centre of this investigation cannot agree on what constitutes hard evidence. In that case, I will still keep an open mind as to the root cause of the outbreak of the virus. I'm not claiming 100% it was created in a laboratory but I'm putting it out there for discussion, and your scientist has not been able to remove all doubt as to the origins of the disease, so the wisest course of action is to not rule anything out at this stage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,736 Posted February 11, 2020 The most obvious things to avoid are sporting events, football matches etc. Large crowds! What odds on a ban in the next month or two? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,339 Posted February 11, 2020 26 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: The most obvious things to avoid are sporting events, football matches etc. Large crowds! What odds on a ban in the next month or two? Time will tell. The news from the cruise ship in Japan appears to show a high spread rate. The Chinese are now also saying that aerosol infection is very likely and the incubation period could be as high as 24 days. If either of those prove true then its a whole different ball game. The UK has declared an imminent Threat which means self isolation can be legally imposed. Watch what they do, not what they say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr Apples said: This is very revealing Van Wink. So anybody that now disagrees with your world view or on any topic (however cherry-picked the view may be) is automatically a Remainer? Perhaps people that may disagree have weighed up the evidence from balanced sources and chosen a different point of view? You need to pull that slipped mask back up...or you may catch a cold. 😉😉😉 Here are the facts from the WHO (although no doubt they will be disregarded as being in the pay of Space Lizards, Big Pharma and the EU). https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019 Apples “Very revealing”😀If you read the thread properly you will get a flavour as to how the arguments have been twisted towards a Brexit theme, I felt it only fair to respond in kind. As for my “world view”, it’s hardly that, it’s merely a reasonably well educated view of infection control. Will you actually be engaging in the discussion today, a link from the WHO is at least an effort I suppose? Edited February 11, 2020 by Van wink 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 22 minutes ago, ricardo said: Time will tell. The news from the cruise ship in Japan appears to show a high spread rate. The Chinese are now also saying that aerosol infection is very likely and the incubation period could be as high as 24 days. If either of those prove true then its a whole different ball game. The UK has declared an imminent Threat which means self isolation can be legally imposed. Watch what they do, not what they say. I suspect the information coming from China is dubious at best, presumably the 14 day incubation period was based on their data, alternatively viruses of this type are capable of mutation which is a huge concern. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 11, 2020 58 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: The most obvious things to avoid are sporting events, football matches etc. Large crowds! What odds on a ban in the next month or two? If HMG were serious they would preempt the situation. It will be up to people to make their own decisions methinks and as most are sensible they may already be doing that. Personally, I am avoiding crowds anyway and taking other obvious precautions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 11, 2020 17 hours ago, Herman said: Doing that Ricardo. But also pushing emotions to one side and looking at the cold, hard numbers. Be worried, be vigilant but be calm and don't push unnecessary rumours. (I'm looking in Moyo's general direction.) Yeah, that was terrible that that now deceased 34 year old Wuhan doctor was pushing 'unfounded' rumours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,317 Posted February 11, 2020 24 minutes ago, Van wink said: Will you actually be engaging in the discussion today, a link from the WHO is at least an effort I suppose? Of course Van Wink. 👍 In my view the health practitioners are currently well placed to deal with the outbreak, more is being learnt about the virus on a daily basis, vaccines are in the process of being developed and suitable precautions are being taken (all of which will adapt as knowledge and experience develops). So, does that make me a Remainer? 😂 Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,339 Posted February 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mr Apples said: Of course Van Wink. 👍 In my view the health practitioners are currently well placed to deal with the outbreak, more is being learnt about the virus on a daily basis, vaccines are in the process of being developed and suitable precautions are being taken (all of which will adapt as knowledge and experience develops). So, does that make me a Remainer? 😂 Apples No, but you could be a cox's orange pippin.🍈🍎🍏 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,736 Posted February 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mr Apples said: Of course Van Wink. 👍 In my view the health practitioners are currently well placed to deal with the outbreak, more is being learnt about the virus on a daily basis, vaccines are in the process of being developed and suitable precautions are being taken (all of which will adapt as knowledge and experience develops). So, does that make me a Remainer? 😂 Apples It was something I tried to allude to before with reference to China and their handling of the tricky situation in Wuhan. There is very real balance to be struck. If you 'panic' people in an area too soon with the virus they will scatter in all directions and disperse the virus even more effectively and even further afield. History is replete with such examples! You need to get your controls however onerous in place first even if 'locally' you have to downplay the problem! Yes it's tough and no there isn't a conspiracy theory at play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said: It was something I tried to allude to before with reference to China and their handling of the tricky situation in Wuhan. There is very real balance to be struck. If you 'panic' people in an area too soon with the virus they will scatter in all directions and disperse the virus even more effectively and even further afield. History is replete with such examples! You need to get your controls however onerous in place first even if 'locally' you have to downplay the problem! Yes it's tough and no there isn't a conspiracy theory at play. If this had happened just before a second referendum I would indeed have been slightly suspicious that remoaners were up to no good as usual. Edited February 11, 2020 by paul moy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooreMarriot 307 Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said: That was a very poor attempt at a rebuttal with a lot of non-scientific padding such as talking about a Bill Gates conspiracy theories which have absolutely nothing to do with what's under discussion here. When your author starts off his piece with such puffery it undermines the case he is making. When you get to the core of the argument - has a piece of gene code been inserted into the DNA in the laboratory - then your author grudgingly admits there are similarities in the gene code that would support this theory. This is pretty good alignment, but certainly nowhere near slam dunk evidence for the origin of 2019-nCoV being the SARS-like spike protein coding sequence inserted into pShuttle-SN, especially when it’s almost certainly more likely that this sequence could have arisen naturally, given how many coronaviruses have SARS-like sequences in them. If this particular sequence in 2019-nCoV actually did come from the vector and the version of the SARS spike protein gene that was inserted into pShuttle to make pShuttle-SN, there should be large swaths of 100% match, if not 100% match. So even the scientists at the centre of this investigation cannot agree on what constitutes hard evidence. In that case, I will still keep an open mind as to the root cause of the outbreak of the virus. I'm not claiming 100% it was created in a laboratory but I'm putting it out there for discussion, and your scientist has not been able to remove all doubt as to the origins of the disease, so the wisest course of action is to not rule anything out at this stage. " When you get to the core of the argument - has a piece of gene code been inserted into the DNA in the laboratory - then your author grudgingly admits there are similarities in the gene code that would support this theory." No he doesn't.....what he says is that similarities are what you would expect to find and for the crackpot theory that the current coronavirus is man made ( the result of an " escaped " vaccine from a lab ) to be correct would require 100% or should be close to 100% near identical for the entire code sequence . It isn't . As Dr Gorski wisely points out , James Lyons-Weiler is " full of crap " . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 50 minutes ago, Mr Apples said: Of course Van Wink. 👍 In my view the health practitioners are currently well placed to deal with the outbreak, more is being learnt about the virus on a daily basis, vaccines are in the process of being developed and suitable precautions are being taken (all of which will adapt as knowledge and experience develops). Nice one👍 About time to be honest! What are the suitable precautions and why do you think they will be effective? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,339 Posted February 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, Van wink said: Nice one👍 About time to be honest! What are the suitable precautions and why do you think they will be effective? I would say that if any of your income is exposed to the stock market you need to take action now. Supply chains from China are bound to be adversely affected. Also a basic two week supply of essentials need to be available. No need for panic but sensible and timely action is required. There may yet be no panic but the sensible time to take action is before queues form. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Apples 1,317 Posted February 11, 2020 Well, it would appear the current system of self-monitoring and isolation should be effective (if observed correctly), but I'm certainly no expert in the field and happy to rely on the advice provided by health practitioners. 👍 https://www.hps.scot.nhs.uk/a-to-z-of-topics/wuhan-novel-coronavirus/ It seems there is far too much "Here be dragons..." being played and people should wait for facts/evidence to emerge rather than filling in the gaps with speculation and voodoo science. 🤔 Just a Remainer opinion, other opinions are available. 😉😂 Apples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Good opinion👍 Why would you self monitor if you are symptomless? Edited February 11, 2020 by Van wink Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mr Apples said: Well, it would appear the current system of self-monitoring and isolation should be effective (if observed correctly), but I'm certainly no expert in the field and happy to rely on the advice provided by health practitioners. 👍 https://www.hps.scot.nhs.uk/a-to-z-of-topics/wuhan-novel-coronavirus/ It seems there is far too much "Here be dragons..." being played and people should wait for facts/evidence to emerge rather than filling in the gaps with speculation and voodoo science. 🤔 Just a Remainer opinion, other opinions are available. 😉😂 Apples Unusual for remainers not to scaremonger..................... I'm impressed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites