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Nono

Late sub's

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Yes Farke can be late in his subs. 

But are we being blinded here?  Are they late because he won't change, has a formula, or because he sees that late phase of the game differently? 

Think back. This season he has made 2 and 3 changes at once. 

He changed at half time. 

He has made subs in 60, and 70 minute phases. 

And last night he started two hardly bedded on players away at spurs. That was bold. 

To say he only makes late sub's is simply wrong. It's becoming a bulletin board myth. 

We perceive the lack of subs as a fault, he obviously sees it differently. I'd suggest he knows more than any of us and isn't blind or stupid

 

Cut the guy some effing slack. We are all guilty here in desperation, or clutching at straws to find reasons. 

We are losing games because we don't have enough midfield quality, we have barely managed to field our strongest back line all season, pukki has gone cold, and the board criminally failed to back Farke. 

To attack Farke is simplistic nonsense. 

Edited by Nono
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1) This is already being discussed on at least two other threads.

2) You can make a critique of someone without attacking them.

3) As far as I'm aware, he has only made subs earlier than 75 minutes when we have been losing (aside from injuries). In my opinion, this has allowed opponents to gain the upper hand against tiring legs, which is evidenced by the number of points we've lost from winning positions, especially in the past couple of months.

4) I bloody love Daniel Farke, and will back him to the hilt in the Championship next season.

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I couldn't give a monkeys if it's in two other threads. 

The fact people like you are peddling a total myth means it warrants calling you out. 

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1 minute ago, Nono said:

I couldn't give a monkeys if it's in two other threads. 

The fact people like you are peddling a total myth means it warrants calling you out. 

Go outside and get some fresh air, love.

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Go outside and get some fresh air, love.

Pathetic and patronising now you've been called out on your nonsense.

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4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

1) This is already being discussed on at least two other threads.

2) You can make a critique of someone without attacking them.

3) As far as I'm aware, he has only made subs earlier than 75 minutes when we have been losing (aside from injuries). In my opinion, this has allowed opponents to gain the upper hand against tiring legs, which is evidenced by the number of points we've lost from winning positions, especially in the past couple of months.

4) I bloody love Daniel Farke, and will back him to the hilt in the Championship next season.

On point 4, you will but the board will not.

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16 minutes ago, Nono said:

Pathetic and patronising now you've been called out on your nonsense.

I never paraded anything as fact. I openly asked anyone to provide me evidence of a game where Farke had made a proactive substitution prior to 75 minutes when we had been ahead or level in a match. I am not saying it hasn't happened, just that I can't recall it. There must be examples of this having happened for you to be so irate at me, so please go ahead and give us all the details.

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19 minutes ago, Fred Flintstone said:

Lambert/culverhouse know how to do an effective substitution 

how often does he make a change that fundamentally changes a game 

No multiple accounts are permitted on this board, Jobsworth.

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The fact we've won a total of zero points this season from losing positions suggests game management/use of subs has been poor this season. That is a fact.

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At 1-1 yesterday we were the team that looked the most likely to get the second goal. Had Farke made subs at that point and then Spurs go on to score their lucky deflected winner, Farke would have no doubt been criticised for breaking the momentum we had with subs. Granted, the Stiepermann sub with two minutes left was absolutely baffling unless there was injury involved 

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2 minutes ago, JF said:

At 1-1 yesterday we were the team that looked the most likely to get the second goal. Had Farke made subs at that point and then Spurs go on to score their lucky deflected winner, Farke would have no doubt been criticised for breaking the momentum we had with subs. Granted, the Stiepermann sub with two minutes left was absolutely baffling unless there was injury involved 

I agree we looked most likely to score the second but I'm not sure too many people (ok, some on here would have) would have complained had we added an extra holding midfielder in to the mix to try and keep the 1 point.

I don't think last night was a case in point for the poor use of subs - I do get it from other games to an extent but as I said somewhere else before I think we're more likely to see changes with our Jan signings + fit Drmic (hopefully)

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38 minutes ago, Nono said:

I couldn't give a monkeys if it's in two other threads. 

The fact people like you are peddling a total myth means it warrants calling you out. 

Now then, Nono. I've just been through every Premier League match we've played this season on the PL official website.

At home to Tottenham on December 28, we brought McLean on for Stiepermann after 70 minutes.

That is the only time this season that we have made a substitution earlier than 75 minutes in a match where we have been ahead or level.

My sincere apologies for not having remembered this, and for my outrageous 'myth peddling'.

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30 minutes ago, king canary said:

The fact we've won a total of zero points this season from losing positions suggests game management/use of subs has been poor this season. That is a fact.

Not just that, but I think we’re in the lead for most points lost from winning positions.

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I have to say that I don't think it was as noticeable last night as midway through the second half we were the stronger team but I do find it very, very frustrating to often see our players visibly tired after about 60-65 minutes, the opposition getting on top and Farke not do anything about it until after they score. Its happened several times and the whole ground can see or feel how the momentum has shifted (often as a result of the opposition manager bringing on fresh legs).

I think his philosophy is that he doesn't like to make subs unless he absolutely has to if we are winning or drawing but I do think at times this season this has cost us. Although as I have said above it was not as noticeable last night it is interesting that Mourinho had made 3 subs before they got their winner whereas I am not sure we had made any? Given that we had Rupp making his debut and Duda who is presumably not fully match fit in our team one does have to wonder if fresh legs may have helped to keep up our impetus after the goal.

I also don't agree with taking Tettey off in that scenario. As soon as we did they just started to pour through the middle just as happened at Newcastle under Neil.

 

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Won’t be a problem next season in TC as we’ll probably win more games hopefully if we can keep most of the squad together. Remember TBOD insist we be a top 26 club. 

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34 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Now then, Nono. I've just been through every Premier League match we've played this season on the PL official website.

At home to Tottenham on December 28, we brought McLean on for Stiepermann after 70 minutes.

That is the only time this season that we have made a substitution earlier than 75 minutes in a match where we have been ahead or level.

My sincere apologies for not having remembered this, and for my outrageous 'myth peddling'.

They don't like arguments supported by facts and data on here feedthewolf. 

I could provide data which shows that whilst our pass accuracy is better than it has been in our past 4 top flight seasons. Although only a little better than Hughton's second season. 

We keep getting told our passing game is excellent, so they will like that. 

Unfortunately our tackle success rate under Farke is utterly appalling. So how do we address that? We sign two attacking midfielders. Genius. 

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2 hours ago, hogesar said:

I agree we looked most likely to score the second but I'm not sure too many people (ok, some on here would have) would have complained had we added an extra holding midfielder in to the mix to try and keep the 1 point.

I don't think last night was a case in point for the poor use of subs - I do get it from other games to an extent but as I said somewhere else before I think we're more likely to see changes with our Jan signings + fit Drmic (hopefully)

As soon as cantwell was jogging back at his man before the cross went in, I was a bit annoyed Farke hadn’t made changes earlier, but I am not criticising him as he is a top manager 

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It is factual that our goals against column has been significantly affected by opposition subs. That is before taking into account situations like last night, where Cantwell's obvious fatigue contributed very clearly to the Spurs winner.

Furthermore out of 24 goals scored this season, 3 of them have been from subs, 2 of which have come at the end of heavy defeats. There have been no assists from NCFC subs so far this year.

It is fair enough to say that Farke may well be damned if he does as well as he doesn't, but at the moment we aren't being proactive with our subs and we are losing points all over the place. I think it's fair to ask why a different approach isn't at least being tested.

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As I've pointed out on another thread he brought Hernandez on for Cantwell against Palace when we were 1-0 up. A few minutes later we conceded the equaliser. I honestly think that people who are moaning about his use of subs are clutching at straws. We just don't have the quality to bring on from the bench that other Premier League teams have.

There were loads of examples of Farke bringing on substitutes who changed the game in the Championship last season - where we had players of top quality for the division we were in to bring on. 

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17 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

There were loads of examples of Farke bringing on substitutes who changed the game in the Championship last season - where we had players of top quality for the division we were in to bring on. 

Really?

 

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2 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Really?

 

Yes!!! Really!!!!

Can't you remember????

This is one of the most spectacularly successful substitutions in Norwich City history!!!!!

(Onel Hernandez was brought on as a sub in the 63rd minute). 

 

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2 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Yes!!! Really!!!!

Can't you remember????

This is one of the most spectacularly successful substitutions in Norwich City history!!!!!

(Onel Hernandez was brought on as a sub in the 63rd minute). 

 

Loads of examples?

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15 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Loads of examples?

Here is a game from last season which you may remember. The gentleman scoring a crucial 92nd  minute equaliser for Norwich is called Jordan Rhodes. He had been brought on as a substitute by Daniel Farke a few minutes earlier. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Here is a game from last season which you may remember. The gentleman scoring a crucial 92nd  minute equaliser for Norwich is called Jordan Rhodes. He had been brought on as a substitute by Daniel Farke a few minutes earlier. 

 

Two examples from 50+ games,  that's hardly loads is it.

His tendency is to make substitutions in the last ten minutes. We all know this, if you watch City's games then you know it too.

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20 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Two examples from 50+ games,  that's hardly loads is it.

 

Here is our 2-2 draw away at Bristol City last season. At 3.40 onwards you will see the Norwich City winger pick up the ball - drive at the defender and leave him on his backside, before crossing to the far post where Max Aarons heads in the equaliser. The winger in question is Onel Hernandez - he had been brought on as a substitute in the 76th minute. (As an extra point of interest you will notice that Aarons heads it in from the left wing back position - Farke had changed the formation and moved him there a few minutes previously). 

 

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The decision to bring on a sub when were are 2-1 down and in the 2nd minute of 6 minutes stoppage time can only be described as totally bonkers. I would love to hear DF explain that one away.

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