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Turning on Farke

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4 minutes ago, Surfer said:

The PL is like a sugar rush, it's great at first but then you need more and more sugar to keep the high going. And one day it will come back down with a massive crash. I'm really not fussed if we are there or not, as long as we can enjoy the seasons there and not there. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

In no sense should Farke be perceived as a problem. He wasn’t given a chance. Sadly, I suspect that many will happily applaud being a relatively big fish in the chumps rather than competing in the prem.

I sympathise with this to a degree, I really do, even £15m might have given us more of a chance. 

But on the other hand it puts a new perspective on that time Lambert threatened to go to Burnley if the board didn't give him a January transfer budget, because he felt he needed it to deliver promotion.

That went down really badly with fans at the time, but perhaps in hindsight he was doing us fans all a big service there! 

You could argue that Farke had a degree of leverage and has just accepted the boards stance here, which makes him fully complicit in it. 

If Farke had walked in the summer upon hearing that we were giving him a budget of almost nothing, who on earth would have accepted the job? 

So that does underline how ludicrous our stance was, and how tough his job was this year, but that doesn't mean his squad and game management has been severely lacking this year. 

He was dealt a bad hand, but still didn't play the right cards.

I think it will be quickly forgotten if we can make an instant return, but remembered as a huge missed opportunity if we don't. Especially if Sheffield United manage to avoid second season syndrome and become the Stoke/West Brom of this decade. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I sympathise with this to a degree, I really do, even £15m might have given us more of a chance. 

But on the other hand it puts a new perspective on that time Lambert threatened to go to Burnley if the board didn't give him a January transfer budget, because he felt he needed it to deliver promotion.

That went down really badly with fans at the time, but perhaps in hindsight he was doing us fans all a big service there! 

You could argue that Farke had a degree of leverage and has just accepted the boards stance here, which makes him fully complicit in it. 

If Farke had walked in the summer upon hearing that we were giving him a budget of almost nothing, who on earth would have accepted the job? 

So that does underline how ludicrous our stance was, and how tough his job was this year, but that doesn't mean his squad and game management has been severely lacking this year. 

He was dealt a bad hand, but still didn't play the right cards.

I think it will be quickly forgotten if we can make an instant return, but remembered as a huge missed opportunity if we don't. Especially if Sheffield United manage to avoid second season syndrome and become the Stoke/West Brom of this decade. 

I think that is harsh on Farke.

He has been hired as a Head Coach which means he knows finances/transfers aren't in his remit. It would be odd for him to kick off over budgets (although he may want to ask why Webber bought in players like Roberts and Amadou who he clearly doesn't think fit his way of playing).

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

I think that is harsh on Farke.

He has been hired as a Head Coach which means he knows finances/transfers aren't in his remit. It would be odd for him to kick off over budgets (although he may want to ask why Webber bought in players like Roberts and Amadou who he clearly doesn't think fit his way of playing).

I don't think any of us really know how those transfers work, I assume Farke would ok signings otherwise that would just be odd?

If Webber signed Roberts and said "here you go here's a player" and then Farke just didn't like the look of him so never play him, wouldn't that be a bit of an odd way of operating? 

It would explain a lot, but surely it doesn't work like this? If it does, then perhaps that's why recruitment has been a huge failure over the last year. 

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37 minutes ago, Surfer said:

This whole Premier League thing is a debate point I think. 

For me, if we play football like we did last season, with a full house (in a re-built and expanded City Stand) and can do that on a squad and hence wage structure that allows us to break even, why on earth do we worry about Premier League status?

The PL is like a sugar rush, it's great at first but then you need more and more sugar to keep the high going. And one day it will come back down with a massive crash. I'm really not fussed if we are there or not, as long as we can enjoy the seasons there and not there. 

Unfortunately to be competitive in the championship and be a top championship side leads to the promised land and it’s riches.  There or not isn’t at this moment in time, an option! 

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18 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I don't think any of us really know how those transfers work, I assume Farke would ok signings otherwise that would just be odd?

If Webber signed Roberts and said "here you go here's a player" and then Farke just didn't like the look of him so never play him, wouldn't that be a bit of an odd way of operating? 

It would explain a lot, but surely it doesn't work like this? If it does, then perhaps that's why recruitment has been a huge failure over the last year. 

I think that is pretty much how it works although I might be wrong.

Webber and his team identify players, transfer strategy etc. I assume they probably check with Farke 'hey we're looking at this guy because XYZ, sound OK?' but I don't think Farke will be identifying the players or asking for certain players.

The whole point of the system is the Sporting Director drives the longer term footballing strategy and should be signing players and hiring head coaches that fit that.

There is always a risk of disconnect- I think in our case it is most obvious with wingers. Webber brought in Marshall and Roberts who are players who like to run at fullbacks and put crosses in, things Farke teams aren't big on. Maybe they were considered to be 'plan b' options but Farke has shown he doesn't want to play that way and there is limited room for someone like that in his squad.

The pros are that when Farke leaves he should be replaceable with a coach who subscribes to a similar philosophy and who won't demand a squad overhaul. One of the reasons Sunderland got into such a mess was that they kept hiring a manager who demanded 7 or 8 new signings, got fired a year later and replaced by another manager who didn't fancy 4 or 5 of the last manager's signings and wants another 4 or 5 of his own, etc etc. It also prevents situations like we had with Neil & Naismith where a manager keeps playing someone just to justify the fee he sunk into them.

 

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I haven’t turned on Farke and nor will I. I want him as head coach. However, his substitutions and struggles to change a game have probably cost us several points this season.

The benefit of hindsight is wonderful, but could we have made earlier subs or tactical changes during those games we threw away in December?

I felt last night he should have been making positive attacking subs when we equalised. We had the momentum and Spurs on the ropes. However, we let them back into the game and the subsequent changes were far too late, and reactive rather than proactive. The late Stiepermann sub was laughable.

He’s been hamstrung by a lack of investment in the squad and maybe too much loyalty with a small group of players.

I hope he stays following our (probable) relegation, but lessons must be learnt in game management and making it more difficult to score against us.

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look at the transfers this window, Rupp cost us £450k according to Sky whilst Duda is on loan. It's clear we are saving the income for the years ahead. that can't be Farke's fault

Edited by SwindonCanary

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1 hour ago, City 2nd said:

Unfortunately to be competitive in the championship and be a top championship side leads to the promised land and it’s riches.  There or not isn’t at this moment in time, an option! 

Exactly, and without those injections of funds we would slowly stagnate and then drift of into the bottom of the championship a la Ipswich, self funded or not.

 

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

look at the transfers this window, Rupp cost us £450k according to Sky whilst Duda is on loan. It's clear we are saving the income for the years ahead. that can't be Farke's fault

I fear this summer, given a big role and a decent budget, he will be off to German & a club with higher aims / expectations... ala Wagner. I for one would not blame him at all... I mean Webber is off the season after....

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25 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I fear this summer, given a big role and a decent budget, he will be off to German & a club with higher aims / expectations... ala Wagner. I for one would not blame him at all... I mean Webber is off the season after....

I would be surprised if he doesn't go to Dortmund tbh.

As mentioned there does seem to be a large disconnect this season between the type of player Webber wants to sign and the type of player Farke wants to play. You just can't imagine Farke was champing at the bit to get a player like Rupp in to help stave off relegation?

Webber has been quiet for a while, I'm looking forward to his latest ramblings as to his thoughts on relegation and next season's promotion. I'm more disgruntled with him than Farke at this moment.

Edited by Capt. Pants

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7 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

 I'm more disgruntled with him than Farke at this moment.

I fail to see why anyone should be disgruntled at all. Three seasons ago we would have given our eye teeth for this, people seem to have very short memories.

As KG mentioned earlier in the thread, this generation has been thoroughly spoiled over the last twenty years with season upon season with either promotion or relegation in prospect. Some of you need to live through a decade of dross to see how life is for most football supporters. It is very easy to lose heart when you appear to be going nowhere for season after season and I know many who gave up during those times.

I see nothing to be downhearted about, we have valuable players, we are playing decent football. Yes, we are a bit out of our depth in this league and have not had the best of fortune with injuries but that shouldn't be a surprise when we look at the comparative financial clout. Farke and Webber have done ok with a very light purse and I for one won't be turning on them when we are relegated.

 

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7 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I was watching a short video documentary about Brentford yesterday. Do you know what their "target" is, this club that get about 10,000 for home games. Premier League Football. None of this "top 26" b*****ks that gives all involved a get out for when we get relegated and in my view leads to a lack of desire/pressure to stay up which permeates everything we have done this season.

I think any club that hasn't tasted top division football since 1947 might have a similar target Jim 😀

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15 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I fail to see why anyone should be disgruntled at all. Three seasons ago we would have given our eye teeth for this, people seem to have very short memories.

As KG mentioned earlier in the thread, this generation has been thoroughly spoiled over the last twenty years with season upon season with either promotion or relegation in prospect. Some of you need to live through a decade of dross to see how life is for most football supporters. It is very easy to lose heart when you appear to be going nowhere for season after season and I know many who gave up during those times.

I see nothing to be downhearted about, we have valuable players, we are playing decent football. Yes, we are a bit out of our depth in this league and have not had the best of fortune with injuries but that shouldn't be a surprise when we look at the comparative financial clout. Farke and Webber have done ok with a very light purse and I for one won't be turning on them when we are relegated.

The voice of reason, as ever.

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Just look down the A140  and see how quickly it can all go **** up.

Some of us can still remember gates of 12k, kick n rush football, Charlie Billington, pissing in open air bogs and chucking a shilling in a blanket so they could have enough money to pay the playing staff.

As City first used to say "oh deary, deary me"

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1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I fear this summer, given a big role and a decent budget, he will be off to German & a club with higher aims / expectations... ala Wagner. I for one would not blame him at all... I mean Webber is off the season after....

What players do you think he'll try and take? 

Aarons probably a given. 

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Just now, ricardo said:

Just look down the A140  and see how quickly it can all go **** up.

I wouldn't exactly call their demise 'quick', its been very slow and painful, they probably wish it was quick.

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1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I wouldn't exactly call their demise 'quick', its been very slow and painful, they probably wish it was quick.

I have to admit that Ive enjoyed every second of it though😉

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6 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The Top 26 target is an absolute joke. Its a "get out" / throw away quote designed to suggest that relegation is fine & we were planning for it. Why compete unless you give yourselves challenging targets and actually give yourselves the tools to try and achieve those targets.

Absolutely, what's just as much of a joke is the people who suck it all up. 

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1 hour ago, East Rider said:

Exactly, and without those injections of funds we would slowly stagnate and then drift of into the bottom of the championship a la Ipswich, self funded or not.

 

This is exactly the position we were told we were at in September 2018. This board was awash with posters claiming we couldn't compete with ipswich. We've got back there a bit quick even by the doomongering standards of the miserablists on here. You even beat Jimbo to it Capt'n 🙃

Edited by nutty nigel
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50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I fail to see why anyone should be disgruntled at all. Three seasons ago we would have given our eye teeth for this, people seem to have very short memories.

As KG mentioned earlier in the thread, this generation has been thoroughly spoiled over the last twenty years with season upon season with either promotion or relegation in prospect. Some of you need to live through a decade of dross to see how life is for most football supporters. It is very easy to lose heart when you appear to be going nowhere for season after season and I know many who gave up during those times.

I see nothing to be downhearted about, we have valuable players, we are playing decent football. Yes, we are a bit out of our depth in this league and have not had the best of fortune with injuries but that shouldn't be a surprise when we look at the comparative financial clout. Farke and Webber have done ok with a very light purse and I for one won't be turning on them when we are relegated.

 

For those of us who don't remember the days that you could get a ticket and a pie and still have change from a shilling, we don't generally compare it to a mythical time before we were born.

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1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

I would be surprised if he doesn't go to Dortmund tbh.

As mentioned there does seem to be a large disconnect this season between the type of player Webber wants to sign and the type of player Farke wants to play. You just can't imagine Farke was champing at the bit to get a player like Rupp in to help stave off relegation?

Webber has been quiet for a while, I'm looking forward to his latest ramblings as to his thoughts on relegation and next season's promotion. I'm more disgruntled with him than Farke at this moment.

Personally I think the fact Farke has thrown Rupp in while generally ignoring players like Amadou and Roberts suggests Rupp is much more the kind of player he wants.

I don't think it is fair to be disgruntled at Webber- he was trying to work a mini miracle with a lower budget than any other newly promoted team in recent history. 

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11 minutes ago, king canary said:

For those of us who don't remember the days that you could get a ticket and a pie and still have change from a shilling, we don't generally compare it to a mythical time before we were born.

Yep, spoilt was the right word.

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

I fail to see why anyone should be disgruntled at all. Three seasons ago we would have given our eye teeth for this, people seem to have very short memories.

As KG mentioned earlier in the thread, this generation has been thoroughly spoiled over the last twenty years with season upon season with either promotion or relegation in prospect. Some of you need to live through a decade of dross to see how life is for most football supporters. It is very easy to lose heart when you appear to be going nowhere for season after season and I know many who gave up during those times.

I see nothing to be downhearted about, we have valuable players, we are playing decent football. Yes, we are a bit out of our depth in this league and have not had the best of fortune with injuries but that shouldn't be a surprise when we look at the comparative financial clout. Farke and Webber have done ok with a very light purse and I for one won't be turning on them when we are relegated.

 

Spot on Ricardo

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25 minutes ago, king canary said:

For those of us who don't remember the days that you could get a ticket and a pie and still have change from a shilling, we don't generally compare it to a mythical time before we were born.

And a taxi home.

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