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king canary

New Labour Leader

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In the file cabinet with the Russian, Arcuri, Vote Leave and other sundry reports. 

Don't forget the one that said we don't have enough stocks should an epidemic or pandemic occur.

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5 hours ago, Herman said:

In the file cabinet with the Russian, Arcuri, Vote Leave and other sundry reports. 

Ah Ok. The one labelled Fake News Stories

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I like Starmer so far but I disagree with his constant pushing for a lockdown exit strategy- for me it is eminently sensible to wait before that gets made public.

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On 23/04/2020 at 07:04, Van wink said:

I like his measured approach, it’s going to be a stark contrast to BJ and over time is going to appeal to more and more people imo. The key for him is to maintain control of his party and keep the nutters locked away, that’s a big ask cos they haven’t gone away, but I wish him well. 

its called wet dithering, agreeing with the Tories as he did under Blair and not much else.

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11 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

How did the tribunal go?

Patience @Rock The Boat my friend it is coming. Papers were only submitted on 20/4, even in normal times scheduling cases take time. I assume that you have mistaken the tribunal with the Cabinet Office investigation that is briefing it is in full white wash mode.

This case will have greater impact if it arrives when the virus isn't sucking the oxygen of publicity from the media. The added bonus is that when Patel is forced to give evidence the Cabinet Office investigation will also be shown up for the whitewash it is and Johnson will be forced to decide whether he stands by an incompetant and unpopular minister or let her go under.

Knowing Johnson as we do I would guess it will be the latter.

So still all good and heading for a win-win.

 

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18 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

its called wet dithering, agreeing with the Tories as he did under Blair and not much else.

Wet dithering.  Agreeing with the Tories................. Responsible leadership.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, king canary said:

I like Starmer so far but I disagree with his constant pushing for a lockdown exit strategy- for me it is eminently sensible to wait before that gets made public.

It certainly is, media love pushing this, and a few on here, but we need to see whats happening elsewhere, particularly in Germany before making any statements. There will be a debate which will involve opposition in due course I hope, I suspect we may get some broad outline but may have to wait for detail.

Edited by Van wink

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29 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Wet dithering.  Agreeing with the Tories................. Responsible leadership.

It's a really smart move for Starmer. The mood of the country is behind the lockdown and the government strategy in general and those newspapers and journalists that take a contrarian view are on very low approval ratings. If Starmer attacks the government too strongly he will be accused of using the current pandemic to score political brownie points and that will not go down well in the country at this point in time.

What people really want now is what you highlight, VW. Responsible Leadership. So Starmer has to appear statesman-like. He needs to get out on the front line visiting hospitals, care homes, be seen talking to the emergency services personnel, and out-Boris Boris.

He has the advantage that he can do all of this and not be held accountable for the things that go wrong. If he's really smart, he won't criticise but he can let the people he meets do the talking for him. But he has to be careful and not setup situations like the BBC Panorama programme that just interviewed Labour Party activists. He will be found out if he tries to engineer situations. But go out, be visible, and be statesman-like and he can't lose.

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2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

It's a really smart move for Starmer. The mood of the country is behind the lockdown and the government strategy in general and those newspapers and journalists that take a contrarian view are on very low approval ratings. If Starmer attacks the government too strongly he will be accused of using the current pandemic to score political brownie points and that will not go down well in the country at this point in time.

What people really want now is what you highlight, VW. Responsible Leadership. So Starmer has to appear statesman-like. He needs to get out on the front line visiting hospitals, care homes, be seen talking to the emergency services personnel, and out-Boris Boris.

He has the advantage that he can do all of this and not be held accountable for the things that go wrong. If he's really smart, he won't criticise but he can let the people he meets do the talking for him. But he has to be careful and not setup situations like the BBC Panorama programme that just interviewed Labour Party activists. He will be found out if he tries to engineer situations. But go out, be visible, and be statesman-like and he can't lose.

Agree with this.

He can skewer them on some points, hold them to account but the country doesn't want politicians being adversarial in this current climate. 

I think Starmer is smart enough to judge the public mood and occasionally 'play the game' in order to be politically successful, something those too far to the left can never bring themselves to do ala Corbyn or Sanders.

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4 hours ago, king canary said:

I like Starmer so far but I disagree with his constant pushing for a lockdown exit strategy- for me it is eminently sensible to wait before that gets made public.

 

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

It certainly is, media love pushing this, and a few on here, but we need to see whats happening elsewhere, particularly in Germany before making any statements. There will be a debate which will involve opposition in due course I hope, I suspect we may get some broad outline but may have to wait for detail.

What you both seem to be suggesting is that either the government doesn't develop a strategy until something turns up (or the other countries end lockdown) or it does, but doesn't share with the electorate.

No one is expecting a perfect strategy, but sharing the criteria and options so they can be challenged, tested and improved is perfectly sensible. For example the track & trace system apparently needs to recruit 18,000 staff. Where is the plan, where will they be recruited, what will they do, where is the money coming from, when will it happen (or at least how long will it take from now or the point the plan is initiated).

Eithere the government doesn't have a plan or they think that the electorate is too stupid to understand it. Neither is a good look.

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

That's a sensible post Rocky?! 

Give him a chance and let's see what he can do. We'll judge him by his actions.

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1 hour ago, BigFish said:

 

What you both seem to be suggesting is that either the government doesn't develop a strategy until something turns up (or the other countries end lockdown) or it does, but doesn't share with the electorate.

No one is expecting a perfect strategy, but sharing the criteria and options so they can be challenged, tested and improved is perfectly sensible. For example the track & trace system apparently needs to recruit 18,000 staff. Where is the plan, where will they be recruited, what will they do, where is the money coming from, when will it happen (or at least how long will it take from now or the point the plan is initiated).

Eithere the government doesn't have a plan or they think that the electorate is too stupid to understand it. Neither is a good look.

Afterall that looks like the government agree, or at least have been pushed into a corner where they have to

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Afterall that looks like the government agree, or at least have been pushed into a corner where they have to

It was announced last week that a strategy would be developed with the opposition, this isnt something new.

Edited by Van wink

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It was announced last week that a strategy would be developed with the opposition, this isnt something new.

That was last week VW. I think Boris made it pretty clear today that he is in charge and has the final say.

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If I was Starmers PR guy I would get him in a photo op with supermarket cashiers and shelf stackers. These people.havent received the full recognition they deserve so would.be a big win for Starmer. It would.also boost his business support credentials so he would kill two birds with one stone. And a third bird in that it puts distance between him and the previous Labour leader. 

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He's sounding the right notes on being comfortable with patriotism, again further distancing himself from how Corbyn was viewed.

Also, ridiculous to see Jeremy refusing to stop going to parliament despite the job of a backbench MP being extremely doable from home and his age putting him in a high risk . 

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14 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

It was announced last week that a strategy would be developed with the opposition, this isnt something new.

That was last week VW. I think Boris made it pretty clear today that he is in charge and has the final say.

That's right, and whilst I'm not a great fan of Starmer he is undoubtedly a canny guy and is playing his hand very carefully - not saying or doing anything that could be seen as unpatriotic in the current climate (even whilst dismantling Raab completely!) and equally he will 'work' with the government during the crisis without going anywhere near anything that will allow Boris to shift the blame for the **** ups (past or future) onto him and the opposition.

Johnson owns this crisis and no one (not even Corbyn or some senior Tories) is going to share the blame when the inquest gets under way.

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On 30/04/2020 at 18:00, Rock The Boat said:

Give him a chance and let's see what he can do. We'll judge him by his actions.

Well, here's a taster 👇

😀

Max Headroom 😆

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On 30/04/2020 at 18:44, Van wink said:

It was announced last week that a strategy would be developed with the opposition, this isnt something new.

Yep, after Starmer challenged the government over the lack of a plan. They have now spent best part of two weeks attempting to come up something they should have had in the first place. Kudos for SKS for moving this forward, someone had to

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1 hour ago, Jools said:

Well, here's a taster 👇

😀

Max Headroom 😆

Two consecutive PMQs have seen SKS systematically dismantling the governments position on the Virus and this best you can come up with.

Welcome back.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Yep, after Starmer challenged the government over the lack of a plan. They have now spent best part of two weeks attempting to come up something they should have had in the first place. Kudos for SKS for moving this forward, someone had to

That’s his job, to ask questions. Nobody had thought about it before he asked, so good job he did!! 😀

Edited by Van wink

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5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Good to have you back, Jools. Hope everything goes ok with you.

Same back to you good fellow --- As you may or may not know, I'm in the business of care homes and I've always had the policy of never hiring agency staff -- Visitations of residents family members are restricted and NHS staff come with full PPE...

So far so good 👍

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Posted (edited)

Deleted.

Edited by Herman
Deleted for unneccesary rudeness.

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On 30/04/2020 at 17:00, Rock The Boat said:

Give him a chance and let's see what he can do. We'll judge him by his actions.

yes lets see who will be doing the footwork for him at the next election.  It will be superfluous, and it will be given to the Tories by the right wing press and the propaganda Goldilocks, can't do no wrong because we want to get another 7 year franchise...bbc.

 

These two propaganda entities are responsible for pushing all establishment politics in this country so they confirm the status quo.

UNTIL NOW!

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On 04/05/2020 at 10:13, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

yes lets see who will be doing the footwork for him at the next election.  It will be superfluous, and it will be given to the Tories by the right wing press and the propaganda Goldilocks, can't do no wrong because we want to get another 7 year franchise...bbc.

 

These two propaganda entities are responsible for pushing all establishment politics in this country so they confirm the status quo.

UNTIL NOW!

This new coronavirus has certainly spoked a few wheels and created a situation that very few expected, so it could cause all the chips to fly in the air, if you excuse my mixing of metaphors

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Are you looking forward to the first Starmer versus Johnson PMQS? 

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1 hour ago, Herman said:

Are you looking forward to the first Starmer versus Johnson PMQS? 

tbf, Herman, I don't take a huge interest bcz they all have set positions from which you can pretty much guess what they are going to say before the open their mouths. I'm more interested in what Mr. S plans to do regarding policy and how he will get his party to go along with that. He's still an unknown quantity policy-wise as far as I can see and has a heck of a job to pull all the threads together.

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Are you looking forward to the first Starmer versus Johnson PMQS? 

I, I, I, er, er, think (laughter from the opposition, all three in the chamber), that, er, 

Give way!!

I, I, I, er,er, give way to the honourable gentleman.

 

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