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So Boris is avoiding a rebellion by giving Parliament the final say on his Internal Market Bill. 

What a magnanimous gesture with 30 abstainers from an 80 seat majority.

Only Tories could claim a victory out of that.

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LABOUR LEAD in latest YouGOV poll

 

........OK, onlt marginally (e.g. <1%) but after being 26% behind six months ago I think that is worth the 72 point

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43 minutes ago, BigFish said:

LABOUR LEAD in latest YouGOV poll

 

........OK, onlt marginally (e.g. <1%) but after being 26% behind six months ago I think that is worth the 72 point

Could have been in red ink though BF

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2 hours ago, BigFish said:

LABOUR LEAD in latest YouGOV poll

 

........OK, onlt marginally (e.g. <1%) but after being 26% behind six months ago I think that is worth the 72 point

 

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Could have been in red ink though BF

Just for you @keelansgrandad

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He did ok on the Marr show this morning, it’s odd how one can be impressed by straightforward rational thinking, it’s where we are atm I guess

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

He did ok on the Marr show this morning, it’s odd how one can be impressed by straightforward rational thinking, it’s where we are atm I guess

You are right there @Van wink, I thought he was too boring to ever be leader but now he is a shining light of competence.

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Imagine thinking there is any difference at all between the labour and Conservative party. Imagine being that level of mug.

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Curently there's a massive difference. Imagine being that level of mug not to notice.

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2 minutes ago, Herman said:

Curently there's a massive difference. Imagine being that level of mug not to notice.

In what way are they different? The only difference I can see is the conservative are more successful liars than labour. Partisanship fascinates me and scares me as well. The amount of religious level partisanship, people treating their “team” as a untouchable, unquestionably morally correct entity is just a massive marker of a lack of intelligence to me. If you cannot accept nuance at all then you are so stupid you may have reduced yourself to a being that is less than human in my eyes. Reduced yourself to just a mouthpiece of some charlatan. This is both sides by the way, it happens across the cringy drawn out lines.

1984 should be required reading. If you haven’t read it, read it and learn.

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You clearly haven't been paying the slightest bit of attention. You are watching the most incompetent and ethically and morally corrupt government in my living memory and placing them equally with a Labour party under new leadership, which has basically had little chance to do anything at the moment.

 

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

You clearly haven't been paying the slightest bit of attention. You are watching the most incompetent and ethically and morally corrupt government in my living memory and placing them equally with a Labour party under new leadership, which has basically had little chance to do anything at the moment.

 

We are watching the most morally corrupt government

until the next one

thinking “Labour good conservative bad” AND the reverse as well, before you start, makes you incredibly, incredibly stupid.

who could have guessed while people were singing “things could only get better” in 1997 mere years later the Labour Party would tear up our civil liberties, lead us into an illegal war and contribute to a global financial collapse that we still feel the echoes of today.

we need change. If you look at the Labour Party and think “change” that is hilariously naïve. 
 

I look at conservative zealots and labour zealots and they are the same people. They are the same. Absolutely stupid.

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"....thinking “Labour good conservative bad” AND the reverse as well, before you start, makes you incredibly, incredibly stupid."

Nobody is saying that. What I am saying is that the current government is so bloody awful and Labour under Starmer is currently the best option we have of getting rid of them. If in the future a Labour government is as awful as this then I would also look at the best option to try and get rid.

Currently the Tories are filled with Brexit zealots where competence isn't necessary, only an unfailing loyalty to those in charge. Starmer is slowly pushing the Labour Corbynite zealots to one side and if he carries on in this way I could easily consider voting for him. If in the future we get a form of Starmerite zealotry then I would have to rethink. But currently that isn't looking likely.

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Just now, Herman said:

"....thinking “Labour good conservative bad” AND the reverse as well, before you start, makes you incredibly, incredibly stupid."

Nobody is saying that. What I am saying is that the current government is so bloody awful and Labour under Starmer is currently the best option we have of getting rid of them. If in the future a Labour government is as awful as this then I would also look at the best option to try and get rid.

Currently the Tories are filled with Brexit zealots where competence isn't necessary, only an unfailing loyalty to those in charge. Starmer is slowly pushing the Labour Corbynite zealots to one side and if he carries on in this way I could easily consider voting for him. If in the future we get a form of Starmerite zealotry then I would have to rethink. But currently that isn't looking likely.

Nobody is saying that? Nobody? You want to check again?

You demonstrate the issue perfectly here the main issue. Drawn down the middle people are attracted to the “least worst option”. In my estimation the reason the tories are in power and as powerful as they are is nothing to do with their success or ability to do the job but down to an alternatives, and that can mean labour or anyone else, abject failure to offer a genuine alternative. Nothing gets fixed, they just take it in turns at failing over and over again.

Any alternative that sprouts based on anything is going to be shot down by the overarching power of the generic left and right wing. So we are now effectively america with 2 parties and no alternatives. Great. Well done everyone.

my reaction is we need a new politics and I refuse to support either of the current dominant parties. There are as many pedophiles on each team. They are both as corrupt as one another and they both never face reprisals for their actions. I view those who support exclusively one side or another as slaves and incredibly stupid people and the “well they aren’t as bad as the other lot” argument is not valid. It just perpetuates the illegitimate system.

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What would prefer Buh? Anarchy?

Anarchy is egotistical. It’s the easy tempting choice “just burn everything down and reduce everything to zero” yeah, great, no thanks 

I honestly believe the problem is tribalism bourne out of political parties.

id love to see a House of Commons filled with independently elected individuals rather than party politicians. It’s been forgotten that when you vote in a general election you are really voting for the individual that you want to send to central government to represent YOU and the people in YOUR community where what it actually is is “do you want Boris Johnson or Jeremy corbyn”

I’d like to see lots of devolution to local politics and local champions brought forward and encouraged to represent and run their communities rather than the politicians we have at the moment which are criminals, that’s the only descriptive word for them, criminals.

So many are trapped in a cycle of party politics and filled with hatred and, crucially in my mind, seeking DOMINANCE other the “other side” that pursuit of dominance of opinion is what lead to so much pain in the 20th century. It’s wrong and it’s dangerous.

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

We are watching the most morally corrupt government

until the next one

thinking “Labour good conservative bad” AND the reverse as well, before you start, makes you incredibly, incredibly stupid.

who could have guessed while people were singing “things could only get better” in 1997 mere years later the Labour Party would tear up our civil liberties, lead us into an illegal war and contribute to a global financial collapse that we still feel the echoes of today.

we need change. If you look at the Labour Party and think “change” that is hilariously naïve. 
 

I look at conservative zealots and labour zealots and they are the same people. They are the same. Absolutely stupid.

 You claimed that the "Labour Party [tore] up our civil liberties, lead us into an illegal war and contribute[d] to a global financial collapse". Can you tell me which civil liberties they tore up. Which illegal war they lead us into (and who declared it illegal), and how they contributed to global financial collapse (when every report from economists I've read lays the blame squarely upon the failure of the US sub-prime mortgage lending scandal)

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1 minute ago, horsefly said:

 You claimed that the "Labour Party [tore] up our civil liberties, lead us into an illegal war and contribute[d] to a global financial collapse". Can you tell me which civil liberties they tore up. Which illegal war they lead us into (and who declared it illegal), and how they contributed to global financial collapse (when every report from economists I've read lays the blame squarely upon the failure of the US sub-prime mortgage lending scandal)

Defending the government that lead us into the Iraq war.

you are truly lost my man. Truly lost.

Kier Starmer could screw your man in your front room and you’d cheer him on.

read 1984. Please. Before it’s too late. Learn some nuance and strengthen your character for gods sake, it’s pathetic.

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2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Defending the government that lead us into the Iraq war.

you are truly lost my man. Truly lost.

Kier Starmer could screw your man in your front room and you’d cheer him on.

read 1984. Please. Before it’s too late. Learn some nuance and strengthen your character for gods sake, it’s pathetic.

 Do you really think throwing around ridiculous abuse like this constitutes argument? If you had truly read 1984 and actually understood it you would realise that the responses you have made here puts you firmly in the camp of the authorities manipulating truth and reason.  Ad hominem attacks are always the sign of someone not able to provide or sustain any sort of argument. As it happens my mother passed away 2 years ago, but if Kier Starmer were to exhume her and engage in coitus I would probably cheer him on

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5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

 Do you really think throwing around ridiculous abuse like this constitutes argument? If you had truly read 1984 and actually understood it you would realise that the responses you have made here puts you firmly in the camp of the authorities manipulating truth and reason.  Ad hominem attacks are always the sign of someone not able to provide or sustain any sort of argument. As it happens my mother passed away 2 years ago, but if Kier Starmer were to exhume her and engage in coitus I would probably cheer him on

if Kier Starmer were to exhume her and engage in coitus I would probably cheer him on”

Yikes. Keep proving all of my points.

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Just now, The Real Buh said:

if Kier Starmer were to exhume her and engage in coitus I would probably cheer him on”

Yikes. Keep proving all of my points.

Christ! You don't provide arguments and you don't get irony either. 

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2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Christ! You don't provide arguments and you don't get irony either. 

Whatever, man. You do you

wow!

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1 minute ago, The Real Buh said:

Whatever, man. You do you

wow!

And you don't write in intelligible sentences. Try at least to do that much, so we can at least understand the abuse you like to throw around as a replacement for rational thought.

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2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

And you don't write in intelligible sentences. Try at least to do that much, so we can at least understand the abuse you like to throw around as a replacement for rational thought.

Why would you even write “if Kier Starmer were to exhume her and engage in coitus I would probably cheer him on” as a joke? Why would you do that?

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Just now, The Real Buh said:

Why would you even write “if Kier Starmer were to exhume her and engage in coitus I would probably cheer him on” as a joke? Why would you do that?

Because I'm dealing with someone who has shown no ability or desire to engage in rational debate. It was you who said, "Kier Starmer could screw your man[sic] in your front room and you’d cheer him on." It is you who is the sick buffoon. My ironic response sought to accentuate your depravity (how else does someone get through to someone  as dense as you). The fact you couldn't see that simply confirms your intellectual vacuity

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1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Because I'm dealing with someone who has shown no ability or desire to engage in rational debate. It was you who said, "Kier Starmer could screw your man[sic] in your front room and you’d cheer him on." It is you who is the sick buffoon. My ironic response sought to accentuate your depravity (how else does someone get through to someone  as dense as you). The fact you couldn't see that simply confirms your intellectual vacuity

I don’t know man, I think you might have meant it.

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Anarchy is egotistical. It’s the easy tempting choice “just burn everything down and reduce everything to zero” yeah, great, no thanks 

You think that’s what anarchism is really about? Have you read Bakunin or Kropotkin?

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