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13 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes Bill but I don't see this as principally a left /right issue - just a right / wrong issue! It may have slightly biased against poorer schools (by accident and ignorance) but that was secondary to it's basic gross injustice to all - and that was what hurts the average voter and parent/child the most! Low hanging fruit.

Slightly? I think it was generally.

I liked the banner during a protest.

No Eton Grades were harmed in the making of this.

 

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2 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Slightly? I think it was generally.

I liked the banner during a protest.

No Eton Grades were harmed in the making of this.

 

Yes KG - but my point still stands. The Tories scored a very public 'own' goal and most 'non-politically active' voters don't actually care about Eton (absurdly archaic though it is - frankly we could now 'profile' with an algorithm that anybody who went there is clearly unfit to be a politician or lead anything given 'past' recent experience! ).

 It was however the personal affront and offhand treatment to all that will be remembered by Tory and Labour voters alike ! 

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

I would imagine after the A level debacle the Tories are in even more trouble. My slight criticism on Labour's response (Raynor) would be not to run so fast to class' divide or inequality on the now abandoned scheme (or other fiascos no doubt already brewing).  The truth was whatever your background - rich or poor the ludicrous politically inept algorithm (or more specifically those who specified and tested it) failed ALL children and their parents alike whatever their background and likely especially hurt the middle class Tory parents as much as any other. These are the voters Labour needs to capture! Represent them!

That as an aside always reminds of a conversation I once had with Ted Heath on Comprehensive Education - The true reason it was introduced (by one Margaret Thatcher hence Ted's delight in telling the story) was whereas Grammar schools and the 11 plus were wonderful if you passed / got in - and an excellent escape for bright working class kids too - but by definition most would fail including those children from middle class Tory voters - who then didn't like being 2nd class citizens! Moral is the traditional Tory voter can be wooed / represented by Labour too (i.e Blair) who saw things for what they were and put aside the 'class war''. Facts not myths.

 

I'm surprised Ted Heath didn't mention that Comprehensive Education was introduced by Anthony Crosland in 1965, a Labour minister. 

Margaret Thatcher, when she became Education Minister in 1970 removed the compulsion to change status, which is why there are still a few Grammar Schools around. 

Still, don't let the facts get in the way of a good yarn. 

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21 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'm surprised Ted Heath didn't mention that Comprehensive Education was introduced by Anthony Crosland in 1965, a Labour minister. 

Margaret Thatcher, when she became Education Minister in 1970 removed the compulsion to change status, which is why there are still a few Grammar Schools around. 

Still, don't let the facts get in the way of a good yarn. 

Yes - not introduced by Margaret Thatcher but more comprehensive schools were established under Mrs Thatcher than any other education secretary -  Which is why Ted Heath delighted in the story (Ted was PM at the time). However - the subtle fact no doubt lost on you that Ted was making  was the large number of Tory parents kids failing the 11 plus - as must happen with any selective system. That's when they don't like it!

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes - not introduced by Margaret Thatcher but more comprehensive schools were established under Mrs Thatcher than any other education secretary -  Which is why Ted Heath delighted in the story (Ted was PM at the time). However - the subtle fact no doubt lost on you that Ted was making  was the large number of Tory parents kids failing the 11 plus - as must happen with any selective system. That's when they don't like it!

But you did say that Margaret Thatcher introduced comprehensive education according to your conversation with Ted Heath

The true reason it was introduced (by one Margaret Thatcher hence Ted's delight in telling the story) 

One subtle fact that hasn't been lost on me is that the richer Tory parents bought houses in the catchment area of the better schools so that we now have an educational system where the clever working class kids that used to go to grammar schools are now priced out of the better state schools. Typical looney left policy that deprives working class kids of the chance of a better education.

 

Edited by Rock The Boat

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Stop pretending you care about the working class kids. You wouldn't have backed all these tories, toffs and faragists if you did. 

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6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

But you did say that Margaret Thatcher introduced comprehensive education according to your conversation with Ted Heath

The true reason it was introduced (by one Margaret Thatcher hence Ted's delight in telling the story) 

One subtle fact that hasn't been lost on me is that the richer Tory parents bought houses in the catchment area of the better schools so that we now have an educational system where the clever working class kids that used to go to grammar schools are now priced out of the better state schools. Typical looney left policy that deprives working class kids of the chance of a better education.

 

 

I see you clearly did miss and continue to miss the central point of the comment as made by a Tory PM!

First - I'm more than happy to correct the detail but not the thrust of my memory of a conversation (or my comment to be more exact) from 40 odd years ago with Ted Heath - Ted used to tell this story quite often I think (and I'm sure many others have heard the same quips) but yes as noted "Margaret Thatcher established more Comprehensive schools than any other education secretary". Ted Heath's follow up 'punch line' was "Credit where Credit is due !".

However - the real point as he was trying to make to me and lost on you was that even in the leafy Tory Grammar school areas, by design MOST kids actually don't pass the 11 plus (it's selective) and then you have a bunch of rather unhappy Tory parents with their kids going to what was Secondary Moderns. It's this that actually drove private education.

Just for the record I am actually one of those working class, first generation kids who did indeed get to a Grammar School the hard way and then won a Norfolk County Scholarship (that will date me) to University. I have nothing against indeed praise for Grammar Schools but several of my friends went a different route at 11 for no good reason I can see. Tedd's comments all those years ago stuck with me and I took on-board, indeed changed my opinions, as wise and thoughtful - and yes insightful.

It's a bit like Brexit - many like the idea in principal assuming they will be winners - but won't when they fail the test, come up short and are left behind.

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One subtle fact that hasn't been lost on me is that the richer Tory parents bought houses in the catchment area of the better schools so that we now have an educational system where the clever working class kids that used to go to grammar schools are now priced out of the better state schools. Typical looney left policy that deprives working class kids of the chance of a better education.

That is funny. I thought students and their parents could choose which schools they went to. The postcode lottery of kids with a school close to them not able to offer a place because someone from a different area thought it was a better choice?

I was brought up in a council house. Passed the 11 plus and went to the CNS. Everyone wore a school uniform and no-one was dropped off in cars to establish a social ladder. The Head said he had everyones son from Bank owners to Bank robbers.

Even at the age of 12/13, I remember arguing with the Lord Snootys about politics and social welfare. Both sides arguing their point based on what was said by their parents at the tea table. Or in Lord Snootys case, the dinner table.

And nothing is further from the truth about Looney lefties because as far as I know none have actually ever been in government.

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The Struggles of Jools could well become a literary classic. Eventually made into a movie starring Jim Davison in the lead role.

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Good news for Starmer.

 

Labour is now level-pegging with the Conservatives, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer, which shows the Tories have lost a massive 26-point lead in the five months since March.

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Good news for Starmer.

 

Labour is now level-pegging with the Conservatives, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer, which shows the Tories have lost a massive 26-point lead in the five months since March.

image.thumb.png.c0e31c4c3f41817cb79059f4d7edceb6.png

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Sit back and watch Blukip u-turn their way into trouble.👍

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

Sit back and watch Blukip u-turn their way into trouble.👍

 

What I find fascinating is watching the 'floating' Tory (actually Johnson populist - he's a parasite on the Tory party but sadly now taken over - its terminal as Trump is for the GOP) voters slowly realizing their oh so predictable (but even not this bad/incompetent in anybodies worst imagination?) mistake and fall away. It takes some effort and clarity of mind to admit you were had even to yourself - even with what appears now a competent and electable opposition. I suspect the R number for Labour, LibDem and even SNP support is > 1. 😀

Then you have the 'apologists' - died in the wool Tories desperately clinging  to ever shorter straws to explain / argue away the latest fiasco. It's pitiful to watch and my commiserations to them but they got what they voted for - a clown. In truth they are only salving their own consciousness with ever weaker excuses.

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Dawn Butler tweets in opposition to a free press while Stammering Starmer Stays Silent.  This lot are showing themselves to be just as undemocratic as Corbyn and his donkeys.

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45 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Dawn Butler tweets in opposition to a free press...

And in doing so she has declared herself a fascist.

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55 minutes ago, Jools said:

And in doing so she has declared herself a fascist.

Thicko. What free press?

missing the racing results were you?

watch you don't screw yourself into the ground the way you twist things.

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19 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Thicko. What free press?

missing the racing results were you?

watch you don't screw yourself into the ground the way you twist things.

Not surprising to learn that the former trade union leader speaks out in support of the fascists. 

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On 05/09/2020 at 15:30, keelansgrandad said:

Thicko. What free press?

missing the racing results were you?

watch you don't screw yourself into the ground the way you twist things.

Exactly - don't know if you saw the Ch4 interview the other day with the editor of the Sunday Times, it was pure comedy gold.

She failed to directly answer a single question and waffled endlessly, Johnson style, in a risible attempt to convince us that we not only have a free press but also an impartial one 🤣🤣🤣

Makes you wonder if she actually reads her own paper 😂

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8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Not surprising to learn that the former trade union leader speaks out in support of the fascists. 

Dummy. I was speaking in support of Dawn Butler. Black and a woman. Not important in your world.

I worked on a newspaper in the 1970's and can tell you how stories were edited, called redacted nowadays, so that the thrust and meaning of the journalists unbiased but factual report were twisted into something else.

Newspaper owners like Murdoch are fascists.

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Well, we had a stand in Labour leader today. One who didn't do very well and yet he still made numb nuts look an idiot at the Despatch Box.

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11 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well, we had a stand in Labour leader today. One who didn't do very well and yet he still made numb nuts look an idiot at the Despatch Box.

Yes in football analogy as an old fashioned centre forward he had an open goal with only a rookie goalkeeper to beat. He emphatically buried the ball complete with the goal-keeper in the back of the net. The goal-keeper may now be out for the season ....

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7 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Ed Moribund

Did he use his tablet?

68240d71-1310-4533-8e71-fb70d27fefd6-961f596f-e3e0-447c-810d-49c1a170aac5

 

🤣

Edited by Jools

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5 minutes ago, Jools said:

Did he use his tablet?

68240d71-1310-4533-8e71-fb70d27fefd6-961f596f-e3e0-447c-810d-49c1a170aac5

 

🤣

You don't need such things to embarass Oven Ready Boris and his Brexiteers.

So come on Jools, share your wisdom.Why are we arguing about fishing.

Harrods has a bigger turnover than the UK fishing industry.

So is it racism that prevents the UK giving a passport to someone who provides something bigger than our fishing industry.

Wait until the Japanese fishing boats are allowed to fish here. 

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On 14/09/2020 at 21:22, Herman said:

Evergreen tweet.

 

Yeah, Theresa May's "strong and stable" shibboleth is amusing with the passage of time.

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