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king canary

New Labour Leader

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Poor old Jools. He was lied to by Nigel and Boris and cannot offer anything positive from his well heeled mates. We tried to tell him but he really thought they gave a siht about people like him.

And she was wrong. We already are isolated and weak.

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Some Party members infatuation with the brutal Israeli regime needs being discussed behind closed doors. 

Anything that resembles something Jewish at the moment is taboo.

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Good to see a leader setting an example. 

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31 minutes ago, Herman said:

Good to see a leader setting an example. 

agreeing with a questionable post, or defending misfeasance in office

..... now let me think ūü§Ē

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Posted (edited)

Maybe RLB was testing her eyes and read the top line as J, er E, er W

Edited by keelansgrandad

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Been out all day, and only seen The Guardian's report, which quotes Labour as saying “The article Rebecca shared earlier today contained an antisemitic conspiracy theory.'

I haven't read Pake's article but on the face of it this is not an anti-semitic conspiracy theory but an anti-Israeli conspiracy theory. Based on a very simple summary it is not criticising Judaism or Jews as Jews. it is attacking the actions of the state of Israeli, which is not synonymous with Judaism.

This may look like nit-picking but goes to heart of the problem Labour faces over this overall issue, which is that any anti-Israeli criticism, no matter how justified, is automatically labelled as anti-semitic by the enemies of Labour at home and abroad.

I understand the position Starmer has found himself in here, and he was bound to act as he did, but even before he became leader there were signs that Labour was so keen to get rid of the anti-semitic tag that it was going to sign up to protocols that in effect ruled out any criticism of Israel.

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Good to see him stamping in the anti Semitic Lefties in the party, shame it wasn‚Äôt done a long time agoūüĎć

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bring back 'save after save'

one post... and he has gorn

all that effort

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Whatever the situation is @PurpleCanary, I can just see how Corbyn might have handled it right now. A kind of half statement and obfuscation.

At least Starmer has stamped it out quickly. Unlike Johnson, who has not acted.

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Posted (edited)

Race and Religion are becoming topics that events make it impossible to discuss any options without being accused.

For so many years I believed Israel had some justification for its actions but now they are going too far. And they will not entertain policies other than eye for an eye. But make accusations and you are anti semitic.

Just the same as the Police reported that the troublemakers in Brixton were of West Indian origin and got stick for it and accused of being insensitive during the BLM campaign.

I really hope we are not heading into an era of censorship. We need a bit of calm and reason right now.

Edited by keelansgrandad

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I suspect Starmer was waiting for a reason to heave out another of 'Corbyn's lot - though it does bring a smile to the face to read righties complain about supposed racism

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2 minutes ago, Bill said:

I suspect Starmer was waiting for a reason to heave out another of 'Corbyn's lot - though it does bring a smile to the face to read righties complain about supposed racism

I think you are right. 1st mistake RLB and you are toast.

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6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think you are right. 1st mistake RLB and you are toast.

I think it is more a case of 1st excuse...

  • Haha 1

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Hark at Max Headroom,  Just 18 hours before sacking Wrong-Daily:

 

ūüôÉ

It's going to be fun watching Labour ripping itself apart. Again.. etc..etc¬†ūüėÉ

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Zero tolerance. Sets his stall out right from the start. I like it. Less ammunition for the hypocritical RWNJs. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Jools said:

Hark at Max Headroom,  Just 18 hours before sacking Wrong-Daily:

 

ūüôÉ

It's going to be fun watching Labour ripping itself apart. Again.. etc..etc¬†ūüėÉ

Unlike all the Tories who wanted Cummings, the non elected (sounds like Farages career) official, sacked but Boris didn't have the bottle. Boris, man of a thousand words but none of them important.

Just to repeat it once again, Corbyn is no longer leader. Get over it. You have nothing to target while we ave the whole Cabinetūü§†

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Just now, keelansgrandad said:

You have nothing to target while we ave the whole Cabinetūü§†

¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬† ūü§£‚ėĚÔłŹ

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Good to see the Great British public paying heed to fatsos advice about social distancing

.................though I would imagine Jools has no problem with social distancing - I expect his personality suffices there

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On 06/06/2020 at 11:25, Herman said:

Have the LibDems had all the confidence kicked out of them or just given up even trying?

I think it's UK politics just "reverting to the mean". As Labour continues to show it has ditched Corbynism, their voters will "come home" from other parties. And eventually the understanding that Labour can win power again will kick in. The irony is political "momentum" for Labour is rapidly building because the "Momentum" group was kicked out and of course the Tories are demonstrating their gross incompetence. 

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Posted (edited)

There’s no irony in the fact that the having started kickbh out the nutters Moderate Labour voters are smiling. The irony is that those that were banging the drum for Corbyn still haven’t grasped reality.

Edited by Van wink

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2 hours ago, Surfer said:

I think it's UK politics just "reverting to the mean". As Labour continues to show it has ditched Corbynism, their voters will "come home" from other parties. And eventually the understanding that Labour can win power again will kick in. The irony is political "momentum" for Labour is rapidly building because the "Momentum" group was kicked out and of course the Tories are demonstrating their gross incompetence. 

No, I think it is more a case of voters deserting the Tories in droves.

Johnson has been exposed as a serial liar, with a level, of incompetence to match

Unable to sack Cummings, and now Jenrick it is clear that he is not in control. Perhaps that is why he turns up so infrequently

My fear is that it is only set to get worse, as the lack of direction means folk find their own direction

For all the talk of violence on various beaches and elsewhere this actually shows a society self regulating but who are becoming intolerant of an authority who have failed them ...... with all too tragic consequences.

Fatboy needs to go as soon as possible, to head off further unrest

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I agree with some of what you say there Bill, but it several polls show the Tory vote share holding up despite Labour are gaining on them, so it suggests it's the other party votes switching to Labour. The defection from the Tories will happen for the reasons that you suggest, and as Labour becomes seen to be a party responsible enough to govern. Starmer's action this week is a big step forward. 

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On 25/06/2020 at 18:52, keelansgrandad said:

Race and Religion are becoming topics that events make it impossible to discuss any options without being accused.

For so many years I believed Israel had some justification for its actions but now they are going too far. And they will not entertain policies other than eye for an eye. But make accusations and you are anti semitic.

Just the same as the Police reported that the troublemakers in Brixton were of West Indian origin and got stick for it and accused of being insensitive during the BLM campaign.

I really hope we are not heading into an era of censorship. We need a bit of calm and reason right now.

I've always argued passionately that being anti-Israel doesn't make you anti-semitic. I'm not even anti-Israel as a concept, I'm anti-zionism and I'm anti-Israel in it's current form. Israel has had a apolicy of apartheid since it's inception, and the illegal settlements are illegal land grabs designed to break up any continuous Palestinian territory - they are a long game answer to preventing the two-state solution from being viable. They consistently use weapons on civilians, commit human rights abuses and murder innocents. It's not an eye for an eye when you murder thousands of civilians by carpet bombing areas as a response for a few rockets being fired over the border with no casualties. There are examples where Israeli soldiers have rounded women and children up into house under the pretence there was about to be a fight with militants, and they would keep the hosue safe, then they've circled the house with tanks and shelled it murdering all inside.

The Goldstein report makes clear that Israel has used chemical weapons on civilians (a war crime) as they dropped white phosphorous over residential areas resulting in horrific mutilation through burns to the residents.

Read this article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm and you get a real understanding into the mentality of the IDF. They don't give a toss about protecting Israel's sovereignty. They only care about murdering Palestinians and they don't give a **** if they are women or children, innocent or insurgent. 

They've been going too far since at least 1967.  Surprised you are only just waking up to this. The Israeli government is no better than Nazis - and as I'm sure you're aware, my grandfather was in a concentration camp, and half his family murdered by the nazis, so I don't say that lightly. That doesn't mean I'm anti-semitic, or I hate Jews. I don't in fact, I revere the conscientious objectors like Alexei Sayle, and Ilan Pappe. Are they, as Jewish people, anti-semitic because they find the Israeli government abhorrent?

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2 hours ago, kick it off said:

I've always argued passionately that being anti-Israel doesn't make you anti-semitic. I'm not even anti-Israel as a concept, I'm anti-zionism and I'm anti-Israel in it's current form. Israel has had a apolicy of apartheid since it's inception, and the illegal settlements are illegal land grabs designed to break up any continuous Palestinian territory - they are a long game answer to preventing the two-state solution from being viable. They consistently use weapons on civilians, commit human rights abuses and murder innocents. It's not an eye for an eye when you murder thousands of civilians by carpet bombing areas as a response for a few rockets being fired over the border with no casualties. There are examples where Israeli soldiers have rounded women and children up into house under the pretence there was about to be a fight with militants, and they would keep the hosue safe, then they've circled the house with tanks and shelled it murdering all inside.

The Goldstein report makes clear that Israel has used chemical weapons on civilians (a war crime) as they dropped white phosphorous over residential areas resulting in horrific mutilation through burns to the residents.

Read this article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7960071.stm and you get a real understanding into the mentality of the IDF. They don't give a toss about protecting Israel's sovereignty. They only care about murdering Palestinians and they don't give a **** if they are women or children, innocent or insurgent. 

They've been going too far since at least 1967.  Surprised you are only just waking up to this. The Israeli government is no better than Nazis - and as I'm sure you're aware, my grandfather was in a concentration camp, and half his family murdered by the nazis, so I don't say that lightly. That doesn't mean I'm anti-semitic, or I hate Jews. I don't in fact, I revere the conscientious objectors like Alexei Sayle, and Ilan Pappe. Are they, as Jewish people, anti-semitic because they find the Israeli government abhorrent?

I agree with nearly all of that, not least because it is merely stating truths. And I would say Ilan Pappe, for example, is required reading.

I do not think it is fair to equate actions of now successive Israeli governments with **** Germany and the Holocaust. That was uniquely evil. What is morally beyond the pale is to use the Holocaust and 6m murders as a shield against all criticisms of the repressive and apartheid policies of the state of Israel.

At a tangent, the above is why Labour has got itself embroiled in claims of anti-semitism. Historically the right in UK politics has been more anti-semitic than the left, and I imagine proportionally there are still more anti-semites in the Tory party than in Labour.

But because there is in effect zero concern among Tories about the murderous suppression of the Palestinians they either stay silent or back Israel, so nothing is said that either is or can be portrayed as anti-semitic.

I don't doubt there are some anti-semites in Labour, and some comments on Israel stem from that, but much of what gets said is driven by a genuine sense of outrage that this persecution of the Palestians,  which started more than 70 years ago, is still going on. That has driven leftists to extreme expressions, which can easily be demonised as anti-semitic.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

I agree with nearly all of that, not least because it is merely stating truths. And I would say Ilan Pappe, for example, is required reading.

I do not think it is fair to equate actions of now successive Israeli governments with **** Germany and the Holocaust. That was uniquely evil. What is morally beyond the pale is to use the Holocaust and 6m murders as a shield against all criticisms of the repressive and apartheid policies of the state of Israel.

At a tangent, the above is why Labour has got itself embroiled in claims of anti-semitism. Historically the right in UK politics has been more anti-semitic than the left, and I imagine proportionally there are still more anti-semites in the Tory party than in Labour.

But because there is in effect zero concern among Tories about the murderous suppression of the Palestinians they either stay silent or back Israel, so nothing is said that either is or can be portrayed as anti-semitic.

I don't doubt there are some anti-semites in Labour, and some comments on Israel stem from that, but much of what gets said is driven by a genuine sense of outrage that this persecution of the Palestians,  which started more than 70 years ago, is still going on. That has driven leftists to extreme expressions, which can easily be demonised as anti-semitic.

Think you're probably right on the Tories vs Labour element of anti-semitism. The problem has been a decades long concerted effort by Israeli administrations, perpetuated by US governments to conflate anti-Israel sentiment with anti-semitism when they are quite patently not the same thing.

Agree to disagree on the Nazis being uniquely evil. Israel routinely denies medicine, water, food and electricity supplies into Gaza. They bomb the **** out of it, then refuse to allow shipments of building materials in to let the Palestinians rebuild their homes. Murders, torture and executions are routine. Children are put into prison. It's essentially become nothing more than a concentration camp. https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/israel/palestine

Here's an excerpt from an Amnesty international report ( here: https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/report-israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/ )

image.png.d0a1c05967d8a4af4a7c5794bcdc6852.png

How anyone can conflate what is happening with "Israel's right to defend itself" is beyond belief. Firstly, they wouldn't need to defend themselves if they gave the Palestinians the land that is rightfully theirs in a two state solution and ended their apartheid. Secondly, the use of force is utterly disproportionate. You're talking about teenagers with stones against cutting edge drones, tanks etc.

IP_conflict_deaths_total.png

Edited by kick it off

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