Are we a better team since promotion........?

[ged in the onion bag 854]

For me, yes!

DF has presided over a gradual improvement process... getting the team to gel, to play this way took time but once the confidence kicked in (around Cardiff away last season) we got better and better.     This season it's a different level again, and with no EPL experience (coaches or players) and a young side, seems we've had to start learning again.    Some players are much improved, some haven't managed the step up but overall we're not far away from being very competitive. 

Evidence through December and since suggests we are learning, confidence is rising and some opponent is surely in for hiding soon!     

Can't recall a team in relegation trouble that still plays with the belief we have, that is so united, or that creates the amount of chances we do.    If Teemu can find his shooting boots again we could start to see off teams and the defence seem much more streetwise as a unit.     

We might need one of Burnley, Brighton or Watford to struggle, but the lads can still do it!        

 

OTBC

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Yes. Some of the squad look a bit out of their depth in the EPL but most of the squad, if playing in a top side, would look even better.

Only ones who haven't, IMO, are Stiepermann, Leitner, Trybull and Hernandez.

[Capt. Pants 4,194]

Yes undoubtedy. Even those who are not good enough for the Premier League will have benifited. Playing against some of the best players in the world week in and week out can only be a good thing.

[ged in the onion bag 854]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Yes. Some of the squad look a bit out of their depth in the EPL but most of the squad, if playing in a top side, would look even better.

Only ones who haven't, IMO, are Stiepermann, Leitner, Trybull and Hernandez.

i'd agree but add Vrancic to that...    If we had a holding midfielder like Ndidi / Kante type, then suspect Leitner could thrive but sadly we don't. 

[Indy 3,283]

I still hate calling it EFL, it isn’t as it’s had Welsh teams in it, so it should be E&WFL.....

Of course we improved, as pointed out it’s also highlighted where we need to improve if we want to stay here. Continuous improvement process throughout the club required from top to bottom, implementation of change to acquire that goal set in the timeline governed by financial limitations.

[Aggy 747]

Tricky to say anyone who has massively stood out - as mentioned above, there are a few who have been decent (and at a better club would have not looked out of place perhaps). Maybe Krul as an alternative.

I suppose, if Pukki hadn’t had ‘that’ season last year, then he’d probably be hands down winning it this year. He’s on for 15 goals - I wonder how many sides have gone down with a striker who scores 15?

[Fred Flintstone 0]

Part of the issue is that the players haven’t stepped up to the premier league challenge so I have to say any improvement is marginal 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

No idea . How does top of the championship compare to rock bottom of Prem? In terms of league position we couldn’t do any better last year, or any worse this ? 

 I’m not sure there is any way of telling . I am struggling to see huge improvement though. 
 

 

[Chumino 57]

Overall yes I think we are better but only from the experience. The gulf in quality between the top flight and champs has shown where we are as a club. Close but no cigar. Shame as not too far off. Too many champ level players. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I still hate calling it EFL, it isn’t as it’s had Welsh teams in it, so it should be E&WFL.....

I don't blame you, but its the EPL. You are using eff too much. Language Timothy

[Grando 260]

I'd say no. Because last season we had confidence and bouncebackability. 

[ROBFLECK 132]

I think we have , ... especially for the young lads it's been a massive experience and valuable for their progression... The difference between Champs and PL is massive as has been pointed out ... we didn't do enough to strengthen our squad and we paid the price... because of injuries etc... 

But I reckon our team will have improved , even if we get relegated...but football is about confidence too. How will they react to this and how many players will we lose ?

There is a remote chance that we will stay up , but I think the improvement will not be felt that much as relegation isn't a good thing and the vultures will be circling around our squad...

[lake district canary 4,530]

The team is pretty much the same - they were brilliant in many ways last season and they have been brilliant in many ways this season, at times playing sublime football, even given we have been losing matches, mostly only by the odd goal. 

The big thing in all this is the learning process - both for young players and older players who have not been at this level before - and also for the coach.  Learning processes, by nature, mean that a team will develop and improve as time goes on - as long as it accepts it is a learning process and not thinking "we're not good enough". 

Once you think "we're not good enough" you might as well not bother turning up and stay at home and I assume the players don't think that - I would hope they accept the challenge for what it is, believe they can carry on learning and  improving, enough to get over the line. As has been said many times, we are not a basket case propping up the league and it's been noted by everyone that we are playing good football, so if we keep improving and believe in ourselves, there is still a chance we can do something special. 

 

[Pugin 601]

We have definitely improved, and by quite a margin. 

And I am bound to say that luck ran in our favour quite a few times last year, whereas this year the opposite has been true. We also had the misfortune to play a number of teams in the first half of the season who were absolutely in their groove , rather than being off colour. 

[Hardhouse44 261]

3 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The team is pretty much the same - they were brilliant in many ways last season and they have been brilliant in many ways this season, at times playing sublime football, even given we have been losing matches, mostly only by the odd goal. 

The big thing in all this is the learning process - both for young players and older players who have not been at this level before - and also for the coach.  Learning processes, by nature, mean that a team will develop and improve as time goes on - as long as it accepts it is a learning process and not thinking "we're not good enough". 

Once you think "we're not good enough" you might as well not bother turning up and stay at home and I assume the players don't think that - I would hope they accept the challenge for what it is, believe they can carry on learning and  improving, enough to get over the line. As has been said many times, we are not a basket case propping up the league and it's been noted by everyone that we are playing good football, so if we keep improving and believe in ourselves, there is still a chance we can do something special. 

 

The big problem in all this is we are unlikely to see the end of the learning process or even any of the improvement. Older and young alike are likely to be continuing it or showing what they have learned elsewhere next season. I'm convinced we wont kick off next season in the Champions with pukki up front or Emi in midfield. And the likelihood is at least 2 of the 3 youngsters at the back will be gone. Duda wont be within a thousand miles of the place and we will be reliant on our board buying good players again. Which will most likely need to go on another learning curve as they wont be experienced because we don't pay experienced money. 

So the question shouldn't really be are we a better team since promotion. It should be will we be a better team in next season's champions than we were last season.

Answer from me is I very much doubt it. Especially if our recruitment luck runs out!!!

[Midlands Yellow 3,915]

18 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The team is pretty much the same - they were brilliant in many ways last season and they have been brilliant in many ways this season, at times playing sublime football, even given we have been losing matches, mostly only by the odd goal. 

The big thing in all this is the learning process - both for young players and older players who have not been at this level before - and also for the coach.  Learning processes, by nature, mean that a team will develop and improve as time goes on - as long as it accepts it is a learning process and not thinking "we're not good enough". 

Once you think "we're not good enough" you might as well not bother turning up and stay at home and I assume the players don't think that - I would hope they accept the challenge for what it is, believe they can carry on learning and  improving, enough to get over the line. As has been said many times, we are not a basket case propping up the league and it's been noted by everyone that we are playing good football, so if we keep improving and believe in ourselves, there is still a chance we can do something special. 

 

Losing matches by an average of 2.2 goals in reality. 

[lake district canary 4,530]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Losing matches by an average of 2.2 goals in reality. 

That is a dry stat that makes no connection to the circumstances behind the course of the matches we have played. It is distorted by two or three matches - mainly by the Villa match where were running on empty regarding players fitness. Mostly we have been very close in matches.

[lake district canary 4,530]

10 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

The big problem in all this is we are unlikely to see the end of the learning process or even any of the improvement.

Learning processes don't end, they just keep going.....and aren't we seeing improvement on some things from earlier in the season? 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,734]

One thing I think we can say with certainly ...if we on in the Championship this season I think we'd be even more comfortable than last ..by some distance.

If West Brom are top of it , ad viewed last night ,it must be s fairly ordinary league this time around.

Theres certainly no one in it of the class of ourselves or wolves the previous year...or probably brighton/newcastle before that

[ged in the onion bag 854]

2 hours ago, Hardhouse44 said:

So the question shouldn't really be are we a better team since promotion. It should be will we be a better team in next season's champions than we were last season.

Answer from me is I very much doubt it. Especially if our recruitment luck runs out!!!

That's all very negative and miserable.   The question in the thread is perfectly reasonable I would suggest, as are most of the responses.   Your question is a different one to which the answers can be positive or negative but overall utter conjecture and assumption.    This question is based on the evidence in front of us and thankfully there seems a lot more positivity from other fans.   

I am more positive and yes, we will be better next season, I hope!

Edited January 21, 2020 by ged in the onion bag

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

There have been some decent performances, some great performances, some appalling performances & some individuals stepping up (Emi & Todd). As a team we are not as good or together as last season in my opinion and that will be an issue next season, as it is with most relegated teams. 

[ricardo 7,328]

We are as good if not better than last season. The problem is the opposition is much superior.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

An example ... We are weaker up front without Rhodes as back up.

 

[BobLoz3 492]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I still hate calling it EFL, it isn’t as it’s had Welsh teams in it, so it should be E&WFL.....

I don't blame you, but its the EPL. You are using eff too much. Language Timothy

He meant the FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

[Nono 19]

The team is good, and the management. 

But we are up against billionaires and the best players, it's a huge step up. 

And we ain't dead yet. 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

4 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

An example ... We are weaker up front without Rhodes as back up.

 

Not so sure.... He never played when Pukki was on fire last season and is definitely not an EPL player, just doesn't have the pace or movement.   The only time Pukki has missed a game, we lost 4-0 when even Idah didn't get any service.... Rhodes would have made no impact either in that match or this season and had he been selected ahead of Pukki last term, we would now be in the Championship.      Clearly was a good squad player but where is the evidence he could contribute even at the top end of the Championship.        

[Hardhouse44 261]

20 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

That's all very negative and miserable.   The question in the thread is perfectly reasonable I would suggest, as are most of the responses.   Your question is a different one to which the answers can be positive or negative but overall utter conjecture and assumption.    This question is based on the evidence in front of us and thankfully there seems a lot more positivity from other fans.   

I am more positive and yes, we will be better next season, I hope!

Jesus wept. We are rock bottom of the league and I'm being accused of being miserable and negative. You guys only live in the present when we scrape a win and only live in the future when any criticism is level as the current position of the club. 

Its mind boggling. It's only a flesh wound!  

All we have achieved is to put the few premiership quality players we have in the shop window ready for the clubs new season sales. You expect us to ever find another striker of Pukki's quality again ready for next season's championship campaign. Or am Emi. Sorry but those finds don't come round for the money we pay every decade let alone every year. 

Get your head out of the clubs a$re and smell the coffee. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Hardhouse44

[Half Ar5ed Hipster 82]

Tough question - but no.

The cohesiveness and determination to keep going isn't there as much as last season.

But you could argue that's because most of the team has no Premier League experience and therefore no nous to see a game out.

The team we, perhaps naively, thought could storm the Prem by swashbuckling it just hasn't been up to the task owing to the quality of the individual in some important positions. The team in the Champ was the sum of its parts.

If you, hypothetically (and realistically what we really needed to do in the summer), replace those that haven't stepped up to the plate, then we don't really have the same team anyway.

What will be very interesting is what happens in the summer window and how the club addresses (and almost likely) relegation with who comes and goes whilst maintaining the football galvanised under Farke over the past 3 seasons.

[king canary 7,559]

5 minutes ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

The cohesiveness and determination to keep going isn't there as much as last season.

 

This is a key area where we've struggled this season- last season we picked up a number of points when we fell behind, I think I'm right in saying we've still not picked up a single one from a losing position this season?

[hogesar 9,608]

I mean, obviously players have improved by playing against the best players in the world. They haven't got worse. Confidence etc throughout the season plays a big part.

Overall, yes of course we have improved from last season - it's just comparatively speaking the quality we're up against is so very very different.