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 Yet another three or four minutes taken out of a game while they tried to find a way of reversing a clear penalty decision. Bonkers.

The red card, took too way, way too long, at second glance it was pretty clearly a red card. Again, bonkers. 

And they still don't add enough time on at the end of a half or the end of a game to allow for the var officials while they are fannying around with their laptops.

Bonkers.

 

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I hate VAR and want rid of it, but everything it did was right today. With the sending off, I think they were trying to make sure Duda's shot was on target - if it was off target, a yellow would have been correct. A pretty big decision in the context of the game, and they got it right. Definitely needs to get quicker, though.

As for Godfrey's red card, again VAR arrived at the correct decision. Clear contact off the floor with studs on ankle, those challenges can break bones and need to be stamped out of the game. Good to see the ref making the decision himself on the monitor, a clear step in the right direction.

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3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Good to see the ref making the decision himself on the monitor, a clear step in the right direction.

This ^   It should be that way for every decision. 

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7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 Yet another three or four minutes taken out of a game while they tried to find a way of reversing a clear penalty decision. Bonkers.

The red card, took too way, way too long, at second glance it was pretty clearly a red card. Again, bonkers. 

And they still don't add enough time on at the end of a half or the end of a game to allow for the var officials while they are fannying around with their laptops.

Bonkers.

 

 

I dislike VAR a lot.

But it's very cynical to suggest the time was taken to try and reverse the decision. What's the point in saying that? A few Norwich fans need to stop feeling like victims, this isn't helping.

As FTW said, there were a number of things they were checking. Yes, it needs to speed up, but those are the reasons.

And it did get everything right today, can't hide from that.

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

I hate VAR and want rid of it, but everything it did was right today. With the sending off, I think they were trying to make sure Duda's shot was on target - if it was off target, a yellow would have been correct. A pretty big decision in the context of the game, and they got it right. Definitely needs to get quicker, though.

As for Godfrey's red card, again VAR arrived at the correct decision. Clear contact off the floor with studs on ankle, those challenges can break bones and need to be stamped out of the game. Good to see the ref making the decision himself on the monitor, a clear step in the right direction.

To the eye and to any official with brain cells, the ball was clearly on target, otherwise why would the defender bother handling it...and also it was deflected on to the post so again, clearly on target. And why need to check for an offside, because if they are taking the game back to previous incidents, why stop with just one stage back?  There was no-one remotely near offside anyway.

A penalty is a moment full of pressure for the taker too - the delay only makes that worse, again helping the perpetrators of the foul play. Thankfully Pukki is a cool customer, but I think the more noise that is made about var the better, it is utterly, utterly ruining the beautiful game, whether the decisions are correct or not.

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17 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I hate VAR and want rid of it, but everything it did was right today. With the sending off, I think they were trying to make sure Duda's shot was on target - if it was off target, a yellow would have been correct. A pretty big decision in the context of the game, and they got it right. Definitely needs to get quicker, though.

As for Godfrey's red card, again VAR arrived at the correct decision. Clear contact off the floor with studs on ankle, those challenges can break bones and need to be stamped out of the game. Good to see the ref making the decision himself on the monitor, a clear step in the right direction.

Not sure that's true? I thought a handball in the penalty area is a penalty, no matter where the ball is going.

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Apparently the handball they were checking was not the defenders but a possible one by Cantwell in the build up which is why it took so long to decide

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Just now, ron obvious said:

Not sure that's true? I thought a handball in the penalty area is a penalty, no matter where the ball is going.

Not saying it wouldn't have been a penalty, Ron. Just saying that if they decided the original shot was off target, it wouldn't have stopped a goal so would have been a yellow card and a penalty. If he's stopped an on-target shot from going in the net, it's a penalty and a red card (as it was today).

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Not saying it wouldn't have been a penalty, Ron. Just saying that if they decided the original shot was off target, it wouldn't have stopped a goal so would have been a yellow card and a penalty. If he's stopped an on-target shot from going in the net, it's a penalty and a red card (as it was today).

Apologies, got the wrong end of the stick!

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3 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Apparently the handball they were checking was not the defenders but a possible one by Cantwell in the build up which is why it took so long to decide

Jees, are you kidding?  It's getting just beyond ridiculous.

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8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

To the eye and to any official with brain cells, the ball was clearly on target, otherwise why would the defender bother handling it...and also it was deflected on to the post so again, clearly on target. And why need to check for an offside, because if they are taking the game back to previous incidents, why stop with just one stage back?  There was no-one remotely near offside anyway.

A penalty is a moment full of pressure for the taker too - the delay only makes that worse, again helping the perpetrators of the foul play. Thankfully Pukki is a cool customer, but I think the more noise that is made about var the better, it is utterly, utterly ruining the beautiful game, whether the decisions are correct or not.

Not sure if any VAR delays have happened at any matches you've been to this season, but it's ten times worse in the stadium, and I agree it's ruining the game. At least it got the big decisions right today, which is what it was brought in for.

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3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I hate VAR and want rid of it, but everything it did was right today. With the sending off, I think they were trying to make sure Duda's shot was on target - if it was off target, a yellow would have been correct. A pretty big decision in the context of the game, and they got it right. Definitely needs to get quicker, though.

As for Godfrey's red card, again VAR arrived at the correct decision. Clear contact off the floor with studs on ankle, those challenges can break bones and need to be stamped out of the game. Good to see the ref making the decision himself on the monitor, a clear step in the right direction.

I've come to hate VAR as well (though originally thought it would be good) and I would be far less kind than you about today's decisions - in both cases the time taken was absolutely ridiculous and I think this all relates to the 'clear and obvious errors' point.

There certainly wasn't a clear and obvious error for the penalty/red card - the decision was obviously right so it didn't need VARing at all, and even if they were checking for the shot on target that was obvious from the first replay. The handball produced a slight deflection away from the goal and the ball hit the post!! What on earth were they doing for the rest of the time it took to reach a decision?? I don't care what the authorities say they are not trying to just fix 'obvious' errors, there is something else going on.

Godfrey foul much the same - I don't think there would have been any real argument had the ref brandished a red card immediately but as so often in football there is no consistency and players do often get away with a yellow for those types of challenge (even if they shouldn't). The ref was in a good position, had a good view, and choose yellow. He didn't let it go, he didn't just award a foul and he made presumably a borderline decision that it wasn't quite bad enough for a red. So I don't see a clear and obvious error either, and presumably neither did the VAR official because once again it took ages - 'clear and obvious' surely mean it has to be ........obvious! Certainly an improvement that the ref had a look at the screen but as far as I could see he still didn't take the decision - he appeared to go back onto the pitch and wait for the decision to be relayed to him. Could be wrong about that but there was certainly a further delay after he viewed the screen so I suspect he was overridden by the VAR official.

Either way, its ruining game on a consistent basis.

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Just now, Feedthewolf said:

Not sure if any VAR delays have happened at any matches you've been to this season, but it's ten times worse in the stadium, and I agree it's ruining the game. At least it got the big decisions right today, which is what it was brought in for.

No I haven't seen any var stuff, I don't think, but I can imagine it must be worse at the stadiums, but my thought is that in the overall picture of var - even if it gets decisions right sometimes -  is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

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VAR made the right decisions today but the time taken was ridiculous. Standing in the stadium waiting.

Also BBC live text said VAR checked for a penalty early second half for Bournemouth between Zimmerman and Wilson. The fans at the ground werent even made aware.

Complete farce and the game today would have been far more enjoyable without it....AGAIN.

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VAR made the right decisions today.

It still sucks **** and is ruining football.

Edit: Also even though the decisions were right chalk another decision in the against column for us with Godfrey’s red. 

Edited by Monty13
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1 hour ago, Surfer said:

This ^   It should be that way for every decision. 

This is

 

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I hate VAR and want rid of it, but everything it did was right today. With the sending off, I think they were trying to make sure Duda's shot was on target - if it was off target, a yellow would have been correct. A pretty big decision in the context of the game, and they got it right. Definitely needs to get quicker, though.

As for Godfrey's red card, again VAR arrived at the correct decision. Clear contact off the floor with studs on ankle, those challenges can break bones and need to be stamped out of the game. Good to see the ref making the decision himself on the monitor, a clear step in the right direction.

This isn’t quite right though FTW.  “The ref made the decision himself”. I’d say he didn’t . He gave a yellow. 

I’d suggest that Stockley Park got in his ear and told him to check. Once that’s happened the ref is always going to change because effectively Stockley Park wouldn’t say it if they didn’t think he got it wrong 

compare ii with Buendia and the high foot. Several Bournemouth players were intimidating reckless play . Stockley Park didn’t say anything so the initial yellow stood. 
 

So it’s inconsistent in the ground . I agree about the use of the monitor - but it is lead by VAR. Any suggestion that the ref checked on his own volition or that there was any way he wasn’t going to reverse it ( after SP had told him to check) is not so.

 

 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

 Yet another three or four minutes taken out of a game while they tried to find a way of reversing a clear penalty decision. Bonkers.

The red card, took too way, way too long, at second glance it was pretty clearly a red card. Again, bonkers. 

And they still don't add enough time on at the end of a half or the end of a game to allow for the var officials while they are fannying around with their laptops.

Bonkers.

 

All true. 

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21 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

I'd suggest that Stockley Park got in his ear and told him to check. Once that’s happened the ref is always going to change because effectively Stockley Park wouldn’t say it if they didn’t think he got it wrong 

Not necessarily. As I'm reading this, I'm watching an incident in the Napoli-Fiorentina game where the VAR, after checking a handball claim for at least two minutes, called the ref over to check the monitor and the ref decided within 10-15 seconds to not give it (rightly so, in my opinion). So it doesn't always get overturned when the ref checks the monitor.

I didn't see the game today so I don't know how the delays were, or indeed how long they felt during the game, but ultimately they got the decisions all right today and so we can't complain too much. Obviously the length of time is frustrating at times, but getting the decisions right is ultimately the most important thing.

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22 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Not necessarily. As I'm reading this, I'm watching an incident in the Napoli-Fiorentina game where the VAR, after checking a handball claim for at least two minutes, called the ref over to check the monitor and the ref decided within 10-15 seconds to not give it (rightly so, in my opinion). So it doesn't always get overturned when the ref checks the monitor.

Maybe not but the question still arises as to why VAR spent at least two minutes looking at it before they called the ref over.

What were they doing and why??

Surely if we are aiming to eliminate clear and obvious mistakes, which I agree we should, then unless VAR can tell the ref within 20-30 seconds that he should take another look then it isn't clear and obvious and the decision of the ref who was on the spot and saw it in real time should stand.

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2 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Maybe not but the question still arises as to why VAR spent at least two minutes looking at it before they called the ref over.

What were they doing and why??

Surely if we are aiming to eliminate clear and obvious mistakes, which I agree we should, then unless VAR can tell the ref within 20-30 seconds that he should take another look then it isn't clear and obvious and the decision of the ref who was on the spot and saw it in real time should stand.

In the World Cup , when the ref got called over they changed their decision in 92% of decisions. It’s obvious . If SP tell them to look they are telling them that they have got it wrong. 
 

nothing wrong with the principle. But just be clear on what they are doing . Why now introduce the pitch side monitor ? Oh and let Michael Oliver be the first to use it our only ref even close to the World Cup? Suspicious much? 

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Actually it was the referee who got the decisions right. VAR didn't overturn anything because of some silly decision by someone else.

In the QPR v Leeds game, QPR's goal would have been overturned by VAR. But they carried on and apart from the silly commentator, it didn't become an issue. Leeds had their chances, including a controversial penalty and missed them. So they cannot blame the officials why they eventually lost.

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11 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Maybe not but the question still arises as to why VAR spent at least two minutes looking at it before they called the ref over.

What were they doing and why??

Surely if we are aiming to eliminate clear and obvious mistakes, which I agree we should, then unless VAR can tell the ref within 20-30 seconds that he should take another look then it isn't clear and obvious and the decision of the ref who was on the spot and saw it in real time should stand.

I agree completely with that.

Using this Napoli-Fiorentina one as an example, it was clearly not a 'clear and obvious' error, which is why it took so long for the VAR to call the ref over and why the ref didn't give it.

That's what needs to be improved- the application of VAR. The footballing authorities have been working on VAR for years so to completely scrap it because there are problems at the start would be bonkers, in my opinion. I'm sure JK Rowling wasn't happy with her first draft of Harry Potter, but she didn't bin it, she tweaked it until it was right.

It's the same with VAR. They just need to sort the offsides, eliminate the delays and stop checking/overturning things aren't 'clear and obvious' errors. 

Edited by Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man

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13 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I agree completely with that.

Using this Napoli-Fiorentina one as an example, it was clearly not a 'clear and obvious' error, which is why it look so long for the VAR to call the ref over and why the ref didn't give it.

That's what needs to be improved- the application of VAR. The footballing authorities have been working on VAR for years so to completely scrap it because there are problems at the start would be bonkers, in my opinion. I'm sure JK Rowling wasn't happy with her first draft of Harry Potter, but she didn't bin it, she tweaked it until it was right.

It's the same with VAR. They just need to sort the offsides, eliminate the delays and stop checking/overturning things aren't 'clear and obvious' errors. 

They either improve it dramatically or scrap it. I cannot believe the farce that it has become and it smacks of total incompetence at the top of the people who are in charge of it. Who is it, the referee association?  The FA? The Premier League?  Whoever it is, it has been rolled out so far below any kind of common sense that it is just ridiculous. I'm afraid I don't go along with this idea that "oh, it's new and needs time to bed in and be tweaked" or whatever - it is simply being run awfully with an incompetence bordering on rank stupidity.

I am forever going to remember that "frame" or in layman's terms that "photo" of the ball several feet away from Vrancic after he had kicked it and in the self same picture Pukki being judged a fraction of a millimetre offside.  If the officials are that incompetent to judge something like that fairly, it doesn't matter how good var gets, we are always going to get the kind of travesty we saw against Spurs.

Edited by lake district canary

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15 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Actually it was the referee who got the decisions right. VAR didn't overturn anything because of some silly decision by someone else.

In the QPR v Leeds game, QPR's goal would have been overturned by VAR. But they carried on and apart from the silly commentator, it didn't become an issue. Leeds had their chances, including a controversial penalty and missed them. So they cannot blame the officials why they eventually lost.

So the referee gave Godfrey a yellow. Then , absolutely nothing to do with Stockley Park , he decided to overturn his own decision? 
if you really think that’s how it worked , I can only suggest you are a little wide of the mark . 

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Godfreys red was a box ticking exercise. He wanted to be the first guy to use the monitor. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that all referees are scum and deserve nothing but contempt lads.

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5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

They either improve it dramatically or scrap it. I cannot believe the farce that it has become and it smacks of total incompetence at the top of the people who are in charge of it. Who is it, the referee association?  The FA? The Premier League?  Whoever it is, it has been rolled out so far below any kind of common sense that it is just ridiculous. I'm afraid I don't go along with this idea that "oh, it's new and needs time to bed in and be tweaked" or whatever - it is simply being run awfully with an incompetence bordering on rank stupidity.

I am forever going to remember that "frame" or in layman's terms that "photo" of the ball several feet away from Vrancic after he had kicked it and in the self same picture Pukki being judged a fraction of a millimetre offside.  If the officials are that incompetent to judge something like that fairly, it doesn't matter how good var gets, we are always going to get the kind of travesty we saw against Spurs.

I agree that it's being run badly; that's why it needs to be improved.

 

3 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

So the referee gave Godfrey a yellow. Then , absolutely nothing to do with Stockley Park , he decided to overturn his own decision? 
if you really think that’s how it worked , I can only suggest you are a little wide of the mark . 

The referee overturned his own decision. He was under no obligation after seeing the video. Surely it's better that referee is deciding himself rather than the man sitting in a office somewhere? This is the first of many improvements that need to be made.

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4 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I agree that it's being run badly; that's why it needs to be improved.

 

The referee overturned his own decision. He was under no obligation after seeing the video. Surely it's better that referee is deciding himself rather than the man sitting in a office somewhere? This is the first of many improvements that need to be made.

What would you suggest made him look at it again? 

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10 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Godfreys red was a box ticking exercise. He wanted to be the first guy to use the monitor. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that all referees are scum and deserve nothing but contempt lads.

Then he'd be two weeks, too late.

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6 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

What would you suggest made him look at it again? 

Isn't this a good thing? The VAR officials politely suggests that the Ref take another look, he looks and decides if he made a mistake. If his decision after review influenced by the suggestion it could be wrong then he is weak willed and should not be in that position. It happens in Rugby all the time.

I just don't get why we can't follow Rugby, give the Refs / VAR (TMO) microphones, listen to their conversations (on TV) and everything becomes much clearer and in theory less complaints. They still won't get it right 100% but it will be more transparent and invite less conspiracies. 

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