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Dean Coneys boots

Why we will be relegated

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In the premiership defence is more important than attack. Unless you are top six you have to shut up shop and only then work on scoring goals - boring but true. And hence why so many bottom sides play negative football. 
 

We, on the other hand, opted to play open attacking football and - even more naively- failed to upgrade an already leaky defence. Because of that we are where we are. 
 

bottom line is that our individual players are better than our overall team, especially in terms of shutting up shop. In this division a team that cannot keep clean sheets will always be relegated 

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The wisdom that Norwich tried to go against was that you build the team around a solid and experienced defence and use young players further up the pitch. 
 

as usual the stowmarket duo got it badly wrong and we are paying the price

you really couldn’t make this level of incompetence up

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27 minutes ago, Hissing Sid said:

Comedy. Remember when Hootun played boring negative football? Yep, we stank the place out and went down. 

Actually Hootun kept us up. Boring certainly but it worked. I also think we might have stayed up if we hadn't sacked him. Again boringly. But maybe we needed three or four tedious seasons to establish and then begin to work out how to attack via better investment. 

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13 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Actually Hootun kept us up. Boring certainly but it worked. I also think we might have stayed up if we hadn't sacked him. Again boringly. But maybe we needed three or four tedious seasons to establish and then begin to work out how to attack via better investment. 

Maybe but personally I'd rather get relegated than sit through a whole Hughton season again. 

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Not having the cash to strengthen the defence and defensive midfield has hurt us - concede that many goals in the champs and not strengthen means you will struggle at the back - for all hanleys improvements since regaining genuine fitness he remains a champ cb.

Duda is a decent short term signing and fills a genuine problem slot for us at number 10 - neither kenny nor steipermann are good enough often enough nor will they  attract prem buyers and they are more than good enough for the champs.   But the real issue is at cb and cdm.  We need improvements for next season (irrespective of which league) as much as this.

24 points from the remaining 48 isnt impossible - but it does feel increasingly unlikely 

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3 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

and - even more naively- failed to upgrade an already leaky defence. Because of that we are where we are. 


Timm Klose does not need upgrading. 

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3 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

In the premiership defence is more important than attack.

The worst thing about getting promoted from the Championship is that you have to play in the Premier League.

I imagine if we had to play in the 'premiership' we wouldn't be physical enough, the salary cap would be a challange and our players and fans would be confused by the rules of Rugby Union.

 

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1 hour ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

There is a half way house between Hughton and Farke that would keep us up and entertained!!!! 

Jobsworth Canary.....football genius. Please enlighten us further.

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7 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Jobsworth Canary.....football genius. Please enlighten us further.

Comedy post of the day wcork - you used the name Jobsworth and the phrase 'enlighten us' in the same post. 😉

Edited by Thirsty Lizard

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1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Comedy post of the day wcork - you used the name Jobsworth and the phrase 'enlighten us' in the same post. 

There are times, this being one,when jobbo has a shovel in his hand.......I just want to see him keep digging.If nothing else the excercise will do him good.......and give the rest of us a chuckle as he explains footy to us.

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The problem isn't simplistically "improve the defence". The real problem against Utd is that we could not get the ball off them enough and when we did we almost always gave it straight back to them which just invited more pressure - it was almost incessant. It was one of those games where we couldn't get our game going partly because physically we didn't look up to the job - and we look smaller against some teams in this division. The reason Bnmth are struggling this season is the same imo - they don't look to have enough physicality in their game.

We have several players under 6ft in the team every week and maybe that balance holds us back sometimes (Cantwell 1.77m, Buendia 1.7m, Hernandez 1.72, Aarons 1.78, Lewis 1.78)

You can have one or two in a team that are smaller and can still compete physically on a level with teams who are predominately made up of 6ft plus players, but in our case it looks fairly clear that against strong physical teams, that unless we are absolutely on top of our game, we will struggle. It can work, as we have seen, but we can be out done physically. We have to be totally on top of our game.

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2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Maybe but personally I'd rather get relegated than sit through a whole Hughton season again. 

Really???

I wasn't a fan of the boring football that Hughton played, but we achieved our highest Premier League finish in some years doing just that. I agree that it would be a pretty turgid watch, but staying in the Prem is huge for us. Not least because of the additional £££'s but in respect of trying to keep the best team possible together.

If we go down I can see us losing the following players (some may go if we stay up anyhow but...)

Buendia, Pukki, Godfrey, Aarons, Cantwell.

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If we go down it will be for several reasons and not just one. 

Personally I find this daily blame game really boring, but there you are. 

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2 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

 

If we go down I can see us losing the following players (some may go if we stay up anyhow but...)

Buendia, Pukki, Godfrey, Aarons, Cantwell.

You can add Lewis to that list.

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2 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Really???

I wasn't a fan of the boring football that Hughton played, but we achieved our highest Premier League finish in some years doing just that. I agree that it would be a pretty turgid watch, but staying in the Prem is huge for us. Not least because of the additional £££'s but in respect of trying to keep the best team possible together.

If we go down I can see us losing the following players (some may go if we stay up anyhow but...)

Buendia, Pukki, Godfrey, Aarons, Cantwell.

I'm with Hoegsar here- attending games under Hughton became a chore for me and I was planning to get rid of my season ticket if he stayed on. Even his first season was dull as **** most of the time.

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10 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Really???

I wasn't a fan of the boring football that Hughton played, but we achieved our highest Premier League finish in some years doing just that. I agree that it would be a pretty turgid watch, but staying in the Prem is huge for us. Not least because of the additional £££'s but in respect of trying to keep the best team possible together.

If we go down I can see us losing the following players (some may go if we stay up anyhow but...)

Buendia, Pukki, Godfrey, Aarons, Cantwell.

The problem is watching those players in a Hughton team would be far less enjoyable than it is now. And they'd likely not gather the interest that they have done because they'd be stifled.

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This may be an odd thing to say, but I’m far more comfortable (and enjoying the way we play football) with getting relegated this season than playing boring Hootun football and staying up.

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Gotta agree that there is something to improve in our defensive play. If you look at Key Passes (leading to scoring chances) we are averaging to 8.5 which is 13th best in league at the moment.  However, we have only had more key passes than opponent in five games so far (from which we have gained 7pts in total). This clearly indicates that our defensive work would need improvement.

During same time we have won possession in 12 games. In three of those games where we have won key passes we have had higher possession than opponent. And in those three matches we have had remarkably higher possession than opponent 16.4 - 31.6%. 

What to think about that? While maintaining some possession, we usually are vulnerable to give opponents key passes mostly from counter attacks. That is clearly defensive problem.

On the other hand, converting our possession (in which we are 9th in league) to more key passes could also play big part in adding scoring chances (we are 14th in league in number of shots). Our scoring average is 1 per game, which is 16th in league, so there is also place of improvement.

In that sense, we are lacking two ways. We are vulnerable defensively, but also don't have the edge to give the key passes. Let's hope that Duda can bring some magic in there so that we can turn our possession to higher amount of key passes as well.

With more key passes we might be able to kill the games earlier which would help us also to keep the defensive shape better on the second half.
 

 

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It's a common human trait to try to drag others down to join you in your misery. Theres probably a clinical term for it  but as I am only an amateur gynacologist,the name escapes me.

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18 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

You can add Lewis to that list.

Not sure.

It's possible, of course, but he hasn't really been in the spotlight that much this season.

If we did go down, I could see Lewis on the left and Byram on the right.

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19 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'm with Hoegsar here- attending games under Hughton became a chore for me and I was planning to get rid of my season ticket if he stayed on. Even his first season was dull as **** most of the time.

Yes, I remember feeling the same during Farke's first season but I wanted to continue with it and look what happened!

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The problem is watching those players in a Hughton team would be far less enjoyable than it is now. And they'd likely not gather the interest that they have done because they'd be stifled.

Yes, I guess we would have never signed these types of players under Hughton and we certainly didn't bring through any youth under him.

It's all well and good us playing great football at times and seeing these great young players but what good does it do us, really, if we don't have them anymore due to relegation?! Seems a bit of a shame that we let things go to waste to an extent this season.

Anyway. Still trying to remain positive!

Edited by BobLoz3

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4 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

In the premiership defence is more important than attack. Unless you are top six you have to shut up shop and only then work on scoring goals - boring but true. And hence why so many bottom sides play negative football. 
 

We, on the other hand, opted to play open attacking football and - even more naively- failed to upgrade an already leaky defence. Because of that we are where we are. 
 

bottom line is that our individual players are better than our overall team, especially in terms of shutting up shop. In this division a team that cannot keep clean sheets will always be relegated 

As the kids say...this aint it chief.

To succeed in this league we don't need to shut up shop and play Hoooton ball- you just can't afford to be the worst defence in the league. Our problem has been the sheer consistency in shipping goals- it is fine to concede 4 to Man U or 3 to Chelsea. Heck, Watford and Southampton have had games where they conceded 8 and 9 goals respectively but sit outside the bottom three. It hurts us much more to concede 2 goals to Palace, Burnley, Watford and Southampton, yet I don't think we'd be well served by trying to shut up shop against them. We're not exactly scoring for fun this season and I think if we went heavily defensive we might grind out a few 0-0 draws but I also think we'd have lost a few more 1-0's.

It is weird to think of a team with the worst defensive record and the worst goal difference in the league as being a problem of fine margins but it is- it is just we've been on the wrong side of those fine margins for almost every game this season and it adds up. 

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13 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Yes, I remember feeling the same during Farke's first season but I wanted to continue with it and look what happened!

Yes but Farke you could at least guess he was building towards something more- there was nothing to indicate Hughton was going to suddenly change his approach and the fact his spell at Brighton followed the exact same pattern (getting more and more defensive over time, playing for 0-0 draws as the pressure grew) suggests it would have just got worse.

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25 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:


Timm Klose does not need upgrading. 

From Friday's presser - " Ben Godfrey (knee) and Timm Klose (knee) remain longer term injury absentees"

No he doesn't need upgrading but we need to get someone to replace him

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I am far from ready to resign myself to relegation. Much depends on what steps are taken by the club to strengthen the team during the January window and the signing of Duda seems to me a very good start in that direction. Our poor performance away at Manchester United on Saturday unsurprisingly resulted in a heavy defeat. However, the team's performances in all 7 of the December matches would, in another month, have resulted in at least 1 if not 3 points per game and our position in the table would look very different. It seems to me that we only lack 3 players that could tip the balance from defeat or a draw into a 3 point win. I think Duda could well be one of those three and my view, for what it's worth, is that we need (clearly) an experienced defender and another striker so that 'all of our eggs are not in the one basket' in that position.  If instead of being in the relegation zone of the PL, we were in the Championship and 8 points off an automatic promotion slot, I would certainly not be giving up on the possibility of our team putting in  an overdue good winning run and making up the gap. 

Edited by Erraticus

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We're an attacking team that doesn't score enough goals.

If the plan was to play a free flowing attacking game, where we sacrifice solidity at the back for attacking movement - you have to score more than 1 goal a game on average. Especially when you give a goal away from set-pieces every other game.

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