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Nono

We failed because....

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Most were ok with who came in but also there were quite a few questions about who didn't.

The one I regularly read was the lack of central defensive back up which was fair, up to a point.

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How do you work that out?

13 minutes ago, king canary said:

That is quite the leap. 

The lads would have been rewarded by the promotion wage rises I'd assume we're already baked into their contracts. It made sense to tie down some key contributors like Pukki and Buendia to longer deals to cover us, I'm just not sure we needed to do that for the entire squad.

🤣🤣

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29 minutes ago, king canary said:

This just isn't true. Plenty were questioning our transfers (or lack thereof) before the season began.

 

And the contracts? Which was the point you made to start with?

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

The one I regularly read was the lack of central defensive back up which was fair, up to a point.

The issue that only became apparent as the season went on was the fact we didn't upgrade any of our first xi. I was expecting Amadou and Fahrmann to step up and be starters yet both have made next to no impact.

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5 minutes ago, king canary said:

The issue that only became apparent as the season went on was the fact we didn't upgrade any of our first xi. I was expecting Amadou and Fahrmann to step up and be starters yet both have made next to no impact.

To be fair Fahrmann would have had to be exceptional to replace Krul in his form this season 

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5 hours ago, Nono said:

1. We asked everyone to step up. Players and staff. 

Naive. 

 

 

Giving the team who got us promoted in such style the chance to try and keep us up was met with almost universal approval on this board in the summer. Many people were pointing out how getting rid of Malky and Iwan from our Premier League team under Worthy had been a failure and a bad idea.  

Your post is aftertiming of the highest order. 

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25 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

How do you work that out?

🤣🤣

Can you not read? How does 'not give everyone a new contract' equate to 'replace them all?'

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I can't speak for anyone else. I remember being a bit surprised about Trybull and McLean particularly but don't think I felt strongly enough about it to post on here.

Meant to quote @Nuff Said here

Edited by king canary

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1 hour ago, Ward 3 said:

Say you done well at work and made a company millions of pounds, would you stay on the same wage. Hmm, doubt it.

Or would you want to do what loads of teams have done before and chuck millions at players who are over the hill and not give two sh*ts and just draw a wage and still be bottom.

 

49 minutes ago, king canary said:

That is quite the leap. 

The lads would have been rewarded by the promotion wage rises I'd assume we're already baked into their contracts. It made sense to tie down some key contributors like Pukki and Buendia to longer deals to cover us, I'm just not sure we needed to do that for the entire squad.

Ok @king canary

 

You're clearly another one of these d!cks who always has to be right.

I give up. You must be one of these elite fans. I'm bowing down to you

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1 hour ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

Oh can I also add Meghan Markle to the reasons for the failure 

In balance I dislike the concept of Sarah Ferguson as much as Megan Markel. Trouble with that is it dispels people calling it Racism which seems to be the main reason given . I’m also in my 50’s and voted to remain. 
Surely as a 50 something East Anglian heterosexual man I must be a far right racist ? Well at least according to the Dan O’Hagens of this world . 
I even confuse myself. 

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4 hours ago, JF said:

When is the end of the project though? This relegation will bring a mass exodus of our most talented players and then we’re back to square one and another rebuild, does that mean a new 3 year project is then in place? There is no set timescales it’s a case of taking the opportunity when it comes.

It's certainly not 2.5 years in!

The end will be when we are an established top tier / top 2nd tier club with such a strong financial footing that we can sweep up excellent young talent, grow them, give them their chance and sell them when we want and at the price we want whilst gradually improving the general quality and depth of the squad, playing attractive football and having a good stab at the cups. To demand more requires either ownership by a Russian oligarch or a Saudi Prince (like Bournemouth and SheffUtd respectively) and we're not taking that risk.

 

There won't really be an 'end' ... it is a rolling philosophy for an ambitious club without a billionaire.

 

It's a better plan than before ... go up, spend what we could but still be short and come down in a perilous financial position REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT.

Edited by Cantiaci Canary

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13 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

 

Ok @king canary

 

You're clearly another one of these d!cks who always has to be right.

I give up. You must be one of these elite fans. I'm bowing down to you

This is honestly one of the weirdest exchanges I've ever had on here. I don't always have to be right but I appreciate it if people quoting me actually read what I wrote rather than just making it up.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

This just isn't true. Plenty were questioning our transfers (or lack thereof) before the season began.

 

I don't think people were questioning the transfers, however they probably just expected more money to be spent.

I sympathise with that, and I would love us to be able to buy a few 10 million pound + players, but I also trust Webber to do what is right for the club. He did try to spend money but, for one reason or another, it just didn't happen. 

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1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Giving the team who got us promoted in such style the chance to try and keep us up was met with almost universal approval on this board in the summer. Many people were pointing out how getting rid of Malky and Iwan from our Premier League team under Worthy had been a failure and a bad idea.  

Your post is aftertiming of the highest order. 

Well said. People were hailing this side as 'the best team in our history' at the end of last season.

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1 hour ago, JF said:

When is the end of the project though? This relegation will bring a mass exodus of our most talented players and then we’re back to square one and another rebuild, does that mean a new 3 year project is then in place? There is no set timescales it’s a case of taking the opportunity when it comes.

Webber is off in 2 years.. will he be able to keep a side in the top flight in that period as he has failed miserably so far.   Or maybe its the fans sorry.... probably us lot... 

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1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Not true at all, lets be honest our recruitment in the summer was dissapointing, no one was getting excited about Byram or Drmic.

 

Develop the squad for what? to be relegated, sell our assets and start again in the Championship?

At what point will we develop our squad to be a competitive Premier League squad?

 

Any suggestion that Idah is a capable replacement for Teemu at this stage is ludicrous.

It's funny how you've mentioned Byram and Drmic. Both were purchased cheaply, have good reputations and a slightly suspect injury record. 

Byram has proven to be an astute purchase and the other one has been unlucky with injuries. It happens; some transfers work and some don't (yet). It just turns out that it hasn't cost us anything - unlike Villa, who spent 22 million on Wesley, who's crocked for the rest of the season.

I didn't say Idah was a capable replacement for Pukki. I pointed out that your statement was wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Giving the team who got us promoted in such style the chance to try and keep us up was met with almost universal approval on this board in the summer. Many people were pointing out how getting rid of Malky and Iwan from our Premier League team under Worthy had been a failure and a bad idea.  

Your post is aftertiming of the highest order. 

Exactly right. But some on here wanted us to blow loads of money and not give the lads a chance. I'm one of these apparently 🤣🤣

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We haven’t failed yet, I’m still in the naive group that thinks there’s enough time to turn it round, but we need it to happen sharpish!

Re the other stuff, I said all along (and have bored my son to tears repeating it!) that we conceded far too many last season and either needed a tweak in tactics or personnel at PL level.  We did neither, so it can’t be that big a surprise to see our goals against tally being higher; nor, indeed, our goals for being lower as we are playing better quality defences. 
The particularly annoying thing is that I don’t think it would have taken too much in relative terms to shift things in our favour as we have been competitive in all-but a few games.  Keeping the bulk of the squad whilst improving the defence was always possible, surely.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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There are a whole host of reasons, mostly already covered above. Number one for me though is the failure to address our defensive frailties- even in winning the Championship last year we shipped far too many sloppy goals and were hugely vulnerable on set pieces. The need to address this was painfully obvious- if you cannot defend non-losing positions in the Premier League you are very much ‘dead in the water’. That and going on a ‘wing and a prayer’ that our midfield would step up to PL class, which has happened in brief flashes but with no consistency.

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1 hour ago, JF said:

When is the end of the project though? This relegation will bring a mass exodus of our most talented players and then we’re back to square one and another rebuild, does that mean a new 3 year project is then in place? There is no set timescales it’s a case of taking the opportunity when it comes.

It's actually quite an interesting question. I guess it would be when Webber leaves. At which stage, it will tell us if it is actually possible to succeed in the Premier league as a self-sustaining club.

I disagree about 'going back to square one' though. Square one would be on the road to administration, with a squad full of ageing, overpaid players. 

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‘Square 2’ then? Which will be very much the case if we decide to sell off the young talent we have. We’ll be rebuilding again similar to when the had the Maddison ‘windfalll’ will we not?

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We are failing at the moment because our defence is poor, which is partly down to injuries, but partly down to Farke persisting with zonal defence marking. Every other manager can see that we bring everybody back in the box to defend corners and free kicks; yesterday we actually had 5 players marking 1 Man Utd attacker and not surprisingly an unmarked player scored. This has happened so many times this season. When we are on the front foot and playing attacking football we have troubled every team in this league and have often taken a lead in the game. Unfortunately all those other managers know that if they can create free kicks or corners then they will invariably score against us.

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9 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

It's funny how you've mentioned Byram and Drmic. Both were purchased cheaply, have good reputations and a slightly suspect injury record. 

Byram has proven to be an astute purchase and the other one has been unlucky with injuries. It happens; some transfers work and some don't (yet). It just turns out that it hasn't cost us anything - unlike Villa, who spent 22 million on Wesley, who's crocked for the rest of the season.

I didn't say Idah was a capable replacement for Pukki. I pointed out that your statement was wrong. 

Why's it funny? They're literally our only two signings and we're specifically talking about summer signings?

 

Only relegation.

 

 

Edited by CDMullins

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1 minute ago, Beetley Yellow said:

‘Square 2’ then? Which will be very much the case if we decide to sell off the young talent we have. We’ll be rebuilding again similar to when the had the Maddison ‘windfalll’ will we not?

We'll be in the Championship with decent finances and a squad that has been promoted before. 

We will probably sell players - who or how many is anyone's guess. 

I don't really know what step that would be!

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1 minute ago, Yellow and Green said:

We'll be in the Championship with decent finances and a squad that has been promoted before. 

We will probably sell players - who or how many is anyone's guess. 

I don't really know what step that would be!

Indeed, semantics. The concern is, if we do ‘cash in our chips’, will we get lucky and be able to build a team that ‘gels’ like last time? Or was it more than just luck? The latter one hopes.

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12 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Why's it funny? They're literally our only two signings and we're specifically talking about summer signings?

 

Only relegation.

 

 

If Villa get relegated after spending almost 100 million then it could cost them their club.

I agree that we could have spent more - particularly in defence - but I'm not going to be overly critical of SW's methods because he's done an excellent job so far and I have faith he can continue to develop the club both on and off the pitch.

If we had Neil Doncaster at the helm then I wouldn't be quite so confident!

Edited by Yellow and Green
  • Like 3

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Rewarding those players that got us here, I'm ok with.

However I cannot help but feel that as a result the players have lacked that 'eye of the tiger' in those pivotal moments. Days like yesterday, nobody was playing like their PL status was under serious threat.

All of the squad know that next season they're all but guaranteed upper championship football (likely on more money than they were last time). Those that attract the biggest price tags, such as Aarons, know that we will sell in the summer as part of our model. 

We didn't expect to stay up this season and you can see that attitude filtered down to the pitch.

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I think most of us were aware that we would not be spending shed loads of cash in the summer, however I am surprised at just how little we did spend. We outscored teams in the Championship, I cannot believe SW and DF thought we would be able to do that in the Premier League (from a personal level I was confident we would create chances/score goals, I was much less convinced that we would not concede lots of goals based on how many we conceded in the Championship).

To a certain degree we have been victims of our own success, I believe SW thought last season would have been consolidation in the Championship, with this season being a real tilt at getting promoted to the Premier League, promotion came earlier than expected and I am guessing SW did not want to move away from the financial plan because of it (he certainly did not want us throwing loads of money at it as we have done in the past, leading to the state the club was in when he joined. 

We have  lot of very good young players on long contracts, we have a very good head coach, we play really attractive football, we have a very good academy with a pipeline for future young talent and we are financially stable.

Assuming we go down it will be interesting to see who comes down with us and how much they spent, maybe then it will nail the myth that spending shed loads of cash guarantees survival, on the other side of the coin you have Crystal Palace who have spent very little but are 9th, I know they are an "established" side, but it looks as if one "established" side is coming down with us despite spending lots of money.

Finally, we are not actually down yet, I am a realist and I fully expect us to be relegated, but I intend to enjoy the rest of the season, whatever happens to us. Survival is now dependent on winning against the sides in and around the bottom half of the league with any points gained against the better teams being a bonus, so lets see what happens against the following - Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Brighton, Watford, West Ham and Burnley.

OTBC and Delia Out!!......

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28 minutes ago, Beetley Yellow said:

‘Square 2’ then? Which will be very much the case if we decide to sell off the young talent we have. We’ll be rebuilding again similar to when the had the Maddison ‘windfalll’ will we not?

Thought that went quite well ? The team built from that won the Championship ?. 
What if we hadn’t used the Webber model which includes bringing kids through ?. At Villa / Sheffield Utd and most other clubs they wouldn’t even have played in the 1st team and consequently would have been worthless under 23 players finishing up at the likes of Shrewsbury. We have 5 or 6 players we are concerned about selling for mega money. Why be concerned if they should have been replaced ?. Other clubs are buying their potential, not what they are now. In 3 seasons time they will be top EPL players but that was never going to keep us up this year and what we have is their potential to enjoy and watch develop not unfortunately something that would have kept us up this year top EPL players. Had we have brought in experienced players Cantwell ( possibly our biggest asset ) would have been the first to be left out.

If as many suspect and only if Webber’s biggest challenge will come, to build an even better team but with the biggest budget in the clubs history. 

Sheffield Utd are doing it the Hughton way ( 1 - 0 wins and playing not to lose ), thought we didn’t want that ?. 
Sad we didn’t succeed this year - yep Worried about the future - nope

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