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Ray

Rock & Roll VAR

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Haven given VAR some thought and considered other sports use of technology, I make the following suggestion with reference to offside decisions;

Given the debate around the number of frames per second and the debate over when the ball actually leaves the boot, surely it would be possible to rock and roll the frames around the frame Stockley Park believe shows when the ball left the boot, a la cricket with run outs etc.  The number of frames is up for debate but as I understand it each frame is 0.02 secs, I would venture 5 frames either side as a minimum (0.1 secs) and, if in any of these frames the forward is shown as onside, then that is the decision, even if he is only onside in one of the 11 frames.  This is conducive with giving the attacking side the benefit and would hopefully do away with most, if not all, of the ridiculous decisions we have been getting.  

There would need to be some system, overseen by a non-referee, whereby before any lines, etc. are drawn, the referees select the central frame as the one they identify as when the ball left the boot, then draw the line and then impose the line 5 frames prior and 5 frames after, which should then be shown on screens.

I'm sure most fans would then be happier to accept the final decision, not ecstatic but happier?

Thoughts?

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I would just make it really simple and make it that if the majority of an attacking player's body is level with the last defender then it is onside. We want to see more goals as football is about entertainment. The current system of denying goals for ridiculous marginal reasons has to stop !!!!

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1 minute ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

I would say that if you cannot tell after 30 seconds of analysis it is not a clear and obvious mistake and therefore the goal should stand.....

 

The clear and obvious mistake bit isn’t relevant for offsides, just decisions made by the ref. You’re either offside or not.

Agree something like Ray’s suggestion is needed but as Wacky says - would take ages.

Perhaps go back to the requirement for clear space between the defender and striker - would then give much more benefit of the doubt to the striker.

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2 hours ago, Ray said:

Haven given VAR some thought and considered other sports use of technology, I make the following suggestion with reference to offside decisions;

Given the debate around the number of frames per second and the debate over when the ball actually leaves the boot, surely it would be possible to rock and roll the frames around the frame Stockley Park believe shows when the ball left the boot, a la cricket with run outs etc.  The number of frames is up for debate but as I understand it each frame is 0.02 secs, I would venture 5 frames either side as a minimum (0.1 secs) and, if in any of these frames the forward is shown as onside, then that is the decision, even if he is only onside in one of the 11 frames.  This is conducive with giving the attacking side the benefit and would hopefully do away with most, if not all, of the ridiculous decisions we have been getting.  

There would need to be some system, overseen by a non-referee, whereby before any lines, etc. are drawn, the referees select the central frame as the one they identify as when the ball left the boot, then draw the line and then impose the line 5 frames prior and 5 frames after, which should then be shown on screens.

I'm sure most fans would then be happier to accept the final decision, not ecstatic but happier?

Thoughts?

You don't need to do anything manually. Since the information is all digitised some decent software should do it in miliseconds.

 

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Thanks Ron,

I get that, once the central frame is identified the 5 frame lines should appear automatically, therefore possible even speeding the process up as they will not need to spend as much time on minutia as in most case there will be a 'clear and obvious' situation, not all of course but in most.

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32 minutes ago, Aggy said:

The clear and obvious mistake bit isn’t relevant for offsides, just decisions made by the ref. You’re either offside or not.

Agree something like Ray’s suggestion is needed but as Wacky says - would take ages.

Perhaps go back to the requirement for clear space between the defender and striker - would then give much more benefit of the doubt to the striker.

Clear and obvious I understand is something that happens in the rest of Europe it’s only the EPL that do it this way, or at least that’s how I read the IFAB statement.

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8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Clear and obvious I understand is something that happens in the rest of Europe it’s only the EPL that do it this way, or at least that’s how I read the IFAB statement.

I'm sure I have seen IFAB say that they dont want VAR to be so forensic with off sides but the PL seem to have chosen to use it so precisely.  No other league seems to have cocked up as much as the self styled best league in the world

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

They should not use those lines, just watch it and give a verdict in favour of the attacker and a time limit would be great !

Spot on 

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It should be binned.

It's bringing the game into disrepute.

If it was a club, an owner, a manager, a coach, a player or a fan bringing the game into disrepute then they would be in serious trouble.

But no, as long as it's the PL bringing the game into disrepute then that's fine

 

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9 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

It should be binned.

It's bringing the game into disrepute.

If it was a club, an owner, a manager, a coach, a player or a fan bringing the game into disrepute then they would be in serious trouble.

But no, as long as it's the PL bringing the game into disrepute then that's fine

 

No... it's the stupid way that it is being implemented that brings the intelligence and motives of these guys into question.

Edited by paul moy

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47 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Clear and obvious I understand is something that happens in the rest of Europe it’s only the EPL that do it this way, or at least that’s how I read the IFAB statement.

Not for offsides (in practice anyway). Barca had one ruled off a couple of days ago vs Atletico which used what looked to be the same technology (they certainly stopped the game to draw the tiny lines before making the decision).
 

There can’t be degrees of offside - you’re either offside or not. The technology might not be good enough to get it 100 per cent accurate, but if you could get the perfect technology to time exactly when the ball leaves the foot, then it’s essentially just a “line call” in the same way as the ball crossing the goal line. The difference with other decisions is that there is an element of subjectivity - so if it’s a bit of a heavy challenge but the ref hasn’t given a foul as he’s been quite lenient all game, then VAR won’t overturn it. So that’s where the clear and obvious comes in.

There are a couple of articles (do a quick google) that discuss how VAR has been implemented on the continent and almost all of them say it was bad for the first year or two. Seems it takes a season or two to get the balance right on how often it’s used. 

Edited by Aggy

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2 hours ago, Aggy said:

The clear and obvious mistake bit isn’t relevant for offsides, just decisions made by the ref. You’re either offside or not.

Agree something like Ray’s suggestion is needed but as Wacky says - would take ages.

Perhaps go back to the requirement for clear space between the defender and striker - would then give much more benefit of the doubt to the striker.

But it is only checked if a goal is scored, so the clear and obvious mistake comment stands, assistant referee does not flag, goal ensues, only to be ruled out for offside after two and half minutes of analysis, suggesting a clear and obvious mistake has not been made.........

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/dec/30/var-should-only-be-used-for-clear-and-obvious-offside-errors-say-law-makers

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