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CanaryLegend

Ground v Player Sacrifice

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Ok so say we do get relegated which is a big if and I don’t mean to speak negatively and assume but just putting a prospect out there.

For arguments sake we come down and are financially stable given the lack of investment this year and parachute payments over the next two years. We also have young stars breaking through like Idah.

Question is - would you sell someone like Max Aaron’s and say receive £30m to help finance regeneration of the ground and increase the capacity to over 30,000 by creating a double tier City Stand. 

Financially we have never quite been there due to the yo-yo effect but going down may create perfect opportunity to finally increase an already at capacity ground.

Edited by CanaryLegend

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For me, we need Premier League football to justify any extensive ground regeneration. The greatest source of income for a self funded club is in the development of players. Without the Premier League millions to sustain us, we have to prioritise keeping that major source of income coming.

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56 minutes ago, CanaryLegend said:

 

Question is - would you sell someone like Max Aaron’s and say receive £30m to help finance regeneration of the ground and increase the capacity to over 30,000 by creating a double tier City Stand. 

 

Yes

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Yes, as the City Stand must be replaced eventually. But player sales would be a lot more than 30 million, and I don't see why we would need a double deck stand. IMO we will not re-build the stand while in the Premier League as we need to spend all the money received on wages to have any chance of surviving there. 

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if we do start to neglect Carrow Road and it is obvious some parts need a refurb right now let alone a rebuild of The City Stand we could well up up with another Colney situation.

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As I've said before, anybody who thinks the people currently running the club are just going to flog a player to pay for a new stand just doesn't understand how we are operating these days.

All options for raising finance for a new stand will be considered before player sales - just look at the scheme they came up with for the redevelopment of Colney. 

I'm not claiming that they will be able to totally finance a new stand from other funding methods, but if for example a new stand costs £20 million it may be that they'll be able to raise 10 to 12 million from these sources and player sales will finance the rest. 

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31 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

As I've said before, anybody who thinks the people currently running the club are just going to flog a player to pay for a new stand just doesn't understand how we are operating these days.

All options for raising finance for a new stand will be considered before player sales - just look at the scheme they came up with for the redevelopment of Colney. 

I'm not claiming that they will be able to totally finance a new stand from other funding methods, but if for example a new stand costs £20 million it may be that they'll be able to raise 10 to 12 million from these sources and player sales will finance the rest. 

I thought boring money was risky?

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38 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

As I've said before, anybody who thinks the people currently running the club are just going to flog a player to pay for a new stand just doesn't understand how we are operating these days.

All options for raising finance for a new stand will be considered before player sales - just look at the scheme they came up with for the redevelopment of Colney. 

I'm not claiming that they will be able to totally finance a new stand from other funding methods, but if for example a new stand costs £20 million it may be that they'll be able to raise 10 to 12 million from these sources and player sales will finance the rest. 

So with the model in place now how other than selling a player will pay for a new stand ? It would appear obvious how the finances will arise to bring the stadium up to date. Lands been bought, the board know we are going down and the till will be going nuts this winter or next spring. 

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25 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I thought boring money was risky?

Assume you mean 'borrowing'. There are many and obvious advantages to borrowing money from supporters in the way we did to finance Colney as opposed to borrowing from a bank.

And I'm not just talking about borrowing money to finance a new stand. 

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16 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

So with the model in place now how other than selling a player will pay for a new stand ? It would appear obvious how the finances will arise to bring the stadium up to date. Lands been bought, the board know we are going down and the till will be going nuts this winter or next spring. 

Did we flog a player to pay for the redevelopment of Colney??? No we didn't! 

As I've said before on this topic on another thread - architects are currently working on proposals for the development of a new stand. Part of their brief is to make it as self financing as possible. 

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I've had an inkling for a while that after the probable relegation at the end of the season we will sell 3 - 4 players bringing in £50M + in transfer fees which will likely go into finishing Colney off and a new City stand. - The parachute payment(s) (is it one year or two if we go down this season?) will still ensure we are one of the Championships richer clubs.

 

Alan Bowkett said years ago that while its possible to put a top tier on the City Stand, he thought it would make more sense to knock down the now outdated mid 80's stand and start again with a complete brand new version. - A large single tier stand bigger than the South stand with a tunnel underneath which would enable Carrow road to be turned in to a service road similar to those seen at Old Trafford and Hillsboroughs main stand would be my bet?  

Edited by kingsway

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It's only two years on the parachute payments if we go back down after only one year in the PL. One year if we come straight back up of course, and that resets the clock again. It would be three years of payments if we stay up this year. 

Edited by Surfer

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16 minutes ago, kingsway said:

Alan Bowkett said years ago that while its possible to put a top tier on the City Stand, he thought it would make more sense to knock down the now outdated mid 80's stand and start again with a complete brand new version. - A large single tier stand bigger than the South stand with a tunnel underneath which would enable Carrow road to be turned in to a service road similar to those seen at Old Trafford and Hillsboroughs main stand would be my bet?  

There looks to be enough depth from pitch side to the strip of land just purchased behind Carrow Road to build a "South Stand", the main problem may be where do you place turnstiles / emergency exists as you don't have land "behind" the stand for that activity.

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I know things are looking bleak in the league at the moment. But I really don't think we're quite at the player sacrifice stage yet are we?  A loss to Bournemouth, however, and we may just have to start erecting a wicker man in the car park...

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1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Did we flog a player to pay for the redevelopment of Colney??? No we didn't! 

As I've said before on this topic on another thread - architects are currently working on proposals for the development of a new stand. Part of their brief is to make it as self financing as possible. 

Jesus ! There was no other alternative but to get the begging bowl then. With a potential £100M + coming in the club won’t have to embarrass themselves again .

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45 minutes ago, kingsway said:

I've had an inkling for a while that after the probable relegation at the end of the season we will sell 3 - 4 players bringing in £50M + in transfer fees which will likely go into finishing Colney off and a new City stand. - The parachute payment(s) (is it one year or two if we go down this season?) will still ensure we are one of the Championships richer clubs.

 

Alan Bowkett said years ago that while its possible to put a top tier on the City Stand, he thought it would make more sense to knock down the now outdated mid 80's stand and start again with a complete brand new version. - A large single tier stand bigger than the South stand with a tunnel underneath which would enable Carrow road to be turned in to a service road similar to those seen at Old Trafford and Hillsboroughs main stand would be my bet?  

I think it was around 2011, and he gave an estimate of £30m, paid for over 20 years, so with interest about £50m. But that was on the assumption the £30m would come entirely from outside borrowing. As Thirsty has said, the aim now would be to fund the project very differently. There might be a combination of sponsorship deals, the kind of crowdfunding that paid for Conley, player sales, and some outside borrowing. At any event the plan would be to avoid having a long-term debt  repayment hamstringing the finances.

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28 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Jesus ! There was no other alternative but to get the begging bowl then. With a potential £100M + coming in the club won’t have to embarrass themselves again .

Ha ha. I suppose I should congratulate you really on your relentless miserableness and your skilful use of pejorative language to be negative about The Club at every opportunity. 🙂 

The bond issue - as you very well know - was massively oversubscribed, very successful and very popular. It's certainly one tried and tested model for raising a portion of the funds necessary to finance a new stand. 

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46 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Ha ha. I suppose I should congratulate you really on your relentless miserableness and your skilful use of pejorative language to be negative about The Club at every opportunity. 🙂 

The bond issue - as you very well know - was massively oversubscribed, very successful and very popular. It's certainly one tried and tested model for raising a portion of the funds necessary to finance a new stand. 

Norwich City are a top 26 English football club. I’d only expect my local football club or the scouts to ask for funding to improve training facilities. 

There was no excuse for it to come to that 
and anyone who thinks different should be sectioned.

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9 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Did we flog a player to pay for the redevelopment of Colney??? No we didn't! 

As I've said before on this topic on another thread - architects are currently working on proposals for the development of a new stand. Part of their brief is to make it as self financing as possible. 

If all the money is borrowed on the market the club would need to sell 90% of the additional tickets for 20 years to pay it back. The likely cost is in excess of £30m. It would be very difficult to fund that amount using the same method as for the Colney redevelopment. Although we clearly need additional capacity, football isn't financed by ticket sales any more. 

It needs to be done and I would be quite happy to sell Max to finance it. If, or rather when we're relegated there will be 3 or 4 players leaving for large fees so we'll never have a better opportunity to do it. 

Anyone proposing borrowing the money should look down the road to see what happens when it goes wrong. 

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I think it will happen on the basis that Stuart Webber is leaving in three years and I think he will want to complete it as part of his 'legacy' to the club. 

If we have a 32000 (approx) seater stadium - and we're in the Premiership at the time that he leaves - then that would be a phenomenal legacy!

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10 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I think it will happen on the basis that Stuart Webber is leaving in three years and I think he will want to complete it as part of his 'legacy' to the club. 

If we have a 32000 (approx) seater stadium - and we're in the Premiership at the time that he leaves - then that would be a phenomenal legacy!

This would chime with his previous comments about our having nothing to show for it, re our previous time in the Prem. And things do seem to be tentatively pointing towards some ground improvements in the reasonable future.

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10 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Norwich City are a top 26 English football club. I’d only expect my local football club or the scouts to ask for funding to improve training facilities. 

There was no excuse for it to come to that 
and anyone who thinks different should be sectioned.

Aaaahhhh --- bless you and your Jihadist determination to talk our club down at every opportunity. 

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11 hours ago, Grando said:

I know things are looking bleak in the league at the moment. But I really don't think we're quite at the player sacrifice stage yet are we?  A loss to Bournemouth, however, and we may just have to start erecting a wicker man in the car park...

Connor Wickerman being signed from Palace? 😉 

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12 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Did we flog a player to pay for the redevelopment of Colney??? No we didn't! 

As I've said before on this topic on another thread - architects are currently working on proposals for the development of a new stand. Part of their brief is to make it as self financing as possible. 

Borrowing money from the fans isn't self-financing though.

The Colney issue worked but I'd be hesitant about thinking it can just be rolled out every time the club wants to upgrade the infrastructure. 

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Borrowing money from the fans isn't self-financing though.

The Colney issue worked but I'd be hesitant about thinking it can just be rolled out every time the club wants to upgrade the infrastructure. 

The interest worked out at far more than borrowing from a financial institution.

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14 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Aaaahhhh --- bless you and your Jihadist determination to talk our club down at every opportunity. 

Morning Lizard,morning everyone.

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Borrowing money from the fans isn't self-financing though.

The Colney issue worked but I'd be hesitant about thinking it can just be rolled out every time the club wants to upgrade the infrastructure. 

I think that's just a matter of semantics really King Canary. The club got the money they needed and gave Colney the upgrade it needed with the money. The fans/investors got their money back with a nice little bit on top - bish bosh everybody's happy.

If you borrow money from a bank you will pay a higher rate of interest and the bank will almost certainly demand some form of security in case you have problems paying it back. 

I'm not suggesting that a scheme of the kind that paid for Colney would finance the whole of a new stand, but it could well be one of a number of sources of finance that together would raise the amount needed. 

 

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