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Matt Morriss

VAR conspiracy

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Hopefully the below uploads and plays correctly. 

Proof VAR is a con and has been implemented to be used however the FA see fit. They don't want clubs like us in the premier league, spending zero money.

Either that or this season they are using VAR to validate the tough job the ref and linesman have, get us to hate the alternative so much that we will be begging to have the old way back, and we will never complain again about a lino getting an offside wrong. The condemnation of the refs and linos was getting pretty vociferous, so perhaps this is all part of some FA masterplan. I doubt it tho, and the former is most likely the case. They are manipulating the league as they want it.

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I think the Pukki one is a better example of how badly wrong they're getting it!

Must admit, I wasn't too annoyed by that one yesterday because it looked as though Zimbo's foot was indeed keeping ol scum boy onside.

But now I've seen what you've posted I may well burst into flames.

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9 minutes ago, Matt Morriss said:

Hopefully the below uploads and plays correctly. 

Proof VAR is a con and has been implemented to be used however the FA see fit. They don't want clubs like us in the premier league, spending zero money.

Either that or this season they are using VAR to validate the tough job the ref and linesman have, get us to hate the alternative so much that we will be begging to have the old way back, and we will never complain again about a lino getting an offside wrong. The condemnation of the refs and linos was getting pretty vociferous, so perhaps this is all part of some FA masterplan. I doubt it tho, and the former is most likely the case. They are manipulating the league as they want it.

The first 5 seconds of that video sounds like my mind when I wake up in the morning.

OTBC

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I have to say yesterday was the final bit of evidence I needed for my head to tell me this was as you say.

The Pukki goal, frame used after the ball is kicked, yesterday’s frame before ball is kicked ( or at best when contact was made ). If Pukki’s was correct why was that not used yesterday Wickham offside, or if Pukki’s was correct then that frame should have been used Wickham offside. One ( if not both ) decisions have to be wrong. Farke ( and Coady ) claim multiple frame use until they get to the decision they want, Farke also claimed yesterday the technology is not 100 % accurate. As they haven’t been charged by the FA one assumes they have evidence to back up their claims ?

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VAR conspiracy?

Not for me Jeff, no.

Used poorly? Yes

Not thought-out? Yes

Should have just got off the backs of linesmen and refs and accept they are human and make mistakes meaning we didn't have to implement this ****-show in the first place? Abso-f*cking-lutely.

OTBC

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The problem for me is that VAR was meant to be applied only to "clear and obvious" errors.  That was the remit FIFA gave the Prem when it approved VAR being introduced - as covered on one of the threads here.

 

For offside especially that's just not how it's being used, instead they're focusing on tiny gaps between players, even if you ignore the problem about exactly which frame they pick to make the decision.  Most of the offside calls overturned by VAR are simply not clear and obvious errors, so VAR just shouldn't be applied.

 

VAR is used by other professional sports in a sensible way to cut down on major mistakes by the officials, so it was reasonable for us as fans to expect it would be done sensibly for football, instead of the massive ****-up that's happened.

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There is supposedly a margin of error up up to 30-40 cm with the frame speed they have available. If that is the case then its immediately apparent that it should not be used for the kind of fine margin decisions they are using it for. 

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I still can't believe they gave Pukki's goal offside given the frame they used was clearly after the ball had been passed.  The explanation given to Sky was that he had been coming back from an offside decision - then, VAR officials realising their mistake, a few minutes changed the explanation to simply offside to cover themselves.  But that was simply wrong too, yet too late to change anything. All that suggests is incompetence, not corruption.  

I'm not defending VAR officials, but the pressure they must be under to get the decision right as quickly as possible, looking at multiple frames/screens etc, knowing thousands at the ground - and many more if a live TV game - is leading to mistakes.  Last night on MOTD Shearer was talking about a VAR offside decision yesterday where the goal was disallowed, even though the sequence of play indicated that the attack was in the second phase, therefore the player concerned had been back onside and could not thern be goven offside. So what were the VAR officials thinking? Probably under pressure concentrating on the last two or three frames and forgetting to check the bigger picture.

So a combination of technology, subjective views, pressure to get a decision out to the match all leading to c*ck ups. 

Has to change, remove var altogether imo.  It's not working often enough, not accurate enough, ridiculously long winded in the course of a match and too many errors to make it better than the previous system.  Bring back the human factor, warts and all - or football will be ruined as a spectator sport.

 

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21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I still can't believe they gave Pukki's goal offside given the frame they used was clearly after the ball had been passed.  The explanation given to Sky was that he had been coming back from an offside decision - then, VAR officials realising their mistake, a few minutes changed the explanation to simply offside to cover themselves.  But that was simply wrong too, yet too late to change anything. All that suggests is incompetence, not corruption.  

I'm not defending VAR officials, but the pressure they must be under to get the decision right as quickly as possible, looking at multiple frames/screens etc, knowing thousands at the ground - and many more if a live TV game - is leading to mistakes.  Last night on MOTD Shearer was talking about a VAR offside decision yesterday where the goal was disallowed, even though the sequence of play indicated that the attack was in the second phase, therefore the player concerned had been back onside and could not thern be goven offside. So what were the VAR officials thinking? Probably under pressure concentrating on the last two or three frames and forgetting to check the bigger picture.

So a combination of technology, subjective views, pressure to get a decision out to the match all leading to c*ck ups. 

Has to change, remove var altogether imo.  It's not working often enough, not accurate enough, ridiculously long winded in the course of a match and too many errors to make it better than the previous system.  Bring back the human factor, warts and all - or football will be ruined as a spectator sport.

 

Also if they can go back to the phase before to check the Villa offside and disallow it then why can;t they go back and check whether the throw was given the right way in the lead up to the Villa goal against us, Its just such a can of worms, the whole thing.

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21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I still can't believe they gave Pukki's goal offside given the frame they used was clearly after the ball had been passed.  The explanation given to Sky was that he had been coming back from an offside decision - then, VAR officials realising their mistake, a few minutes changed the explanation to simply offside to cover themselves.  But that was simply wrong too, yet too late to change anything. All that suggests is incompetence, not corruption.  

I'm not defending VAR officials, but the pressure they must be under to get the decision right as quickly as possible, looking at multiple frames/screens etc, knowing thousands at the ground - and many more if a live TV game - is leading to mistakes.  Last night on MOTD Shearer was talking about a VAR offside decision yesterday where the goal was disallowed, even though the sequence of play indicated that the attack was in the second phase, therefore the player concerned had been back onside and could not thern be goven offside. So what were the VAR officials thinking? Probably under pressure concentrating on the last two or three frames and forgetting to check the bigger picture.

So a combination of technology, subjective views, pressure to get a decision out to the match all leading to c*ck ups. 

Has to change, remove var altogether imo.  It's not working often enough, not accurate enough, ridiculously long winded in the course of a match and too many errors to make it better than the previous system.  Bring back the human factor, warts and all - or football will be ruined as a spectator sport.

 

If your theories are correct why is Farke openly saying they look at as many frames as they need to until they get to the decision they want to get to ?. Further more Farke is not being charged by the FA for making these comments, which makes you think he can backup what he is saying and the FA know this will open a can of worms. I have to agree with Farke the only reason it’s taking so long is they have to get to the decision they want.

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3 hours ago, BobLoz3 said:

I think the Pukki one is a better example of how badly wrong they're getting it!

Must admit, I wasn't too annoyed by that one yesterday because it looked as though Zimbo's foot was indeed keeping ol scum boy onside.

But now I've seen what you've posted I may well burst into flames.

That's exactly it, the Pukki one we can accept because of the pedantic nature of the rule now, as evidenced again by the ridiculous Wesley one.

The Palace one they have clearly stopped the frame and drawn the line where they want to indicate onside, even tho the bloody ball hadn't even been played! 

Ive looked at it over and over and even if you argue my picture isn't exactly the moment the ball was played, as it wasn't, it was milliseconds on, the velocity at which Zaha would have hit the ball would far outweigh the pace at which Zimbo and Wickham were running, hence that frame with the ball clearly entering its new direction forward will be more than likely to be the fairer frame to use to judge, in that it's the moment the ball was played forward.

If you follow the path of the ball and Wickhams proximity to the 6 yard box line, and then when the ball changes direction from the cross, you can clearly see the wrong freeze frame has been used by VAR, or rather the right one to fit their agenda.

Utterly corrupt. 

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

whats the audio saying - can;t hear it just comes out all scrambled.

???? Completely irrelevant part of the evidence presented. Well done Columbo. 

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3 hours ago, Well b back said:

I have to say yesterday was the final bit of evidence I needed for my head to tell me this was as you say.

The Pukki goal, frame used after the ball is kicked, yesterday’s frame before ball is kicked ( or at best when contact was made ). If Pukki’s was correct why was that not used yesterday Wickham offside, or if Pukki’s was correct then that frame should have been used Wickham offside. One ( if not both ) decisions have to be wrong. Farke ( and Coady ) claim multiple frame use until they get to the decision they want, Farke also claimed yesterday the technology is not 100 % accurate. As they haven’t been charged by the FA one assumes they have evidence to back up their claims ?

Spot on, hadnt thought of that but I guess your right, their using whatever frames they want. Manipulation of presenting the truth to fit their own agenda.

 

The Man Utd penalty where Godfrey was fouled and now the Palace one have convinced me they are using VAR to manipulate the results they want.

 

The FA should just f off now and form a European superleague if they dont want the likes of Norwich in the prem. 

 

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What I find odd is that it is referees doing the VAR checks for off-side rather than a linesman. Being a linesman is a specialist role. Does anyone remember the World Cup where they used refs to run the lines only for them to churn out a string of errors. 

If a linesman had ruled on Pukki's goal he wouldn't have messed up the coming back from an offside position nor the one that Shearer highlighted that was second phase.

 

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1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

What I find odd is that it is referees doing the VAR checks for off-side rather than a linesman. Being a linesman is a specialist role. Does anyone remember the World Cup where they used refs to run the lines only for them to churn out a string of errors. 

If a linesman had ruled on Pukki's goal he wouldn't have messed up the coming back from an offside position nor the one that Shearer highlighted that was second phase.

 

I'm not sure it matters they are using refs. We can see it's onside/offside and were not specialist linesman.

Fact is they are using VAR as a tool to control game outcomes. 

 

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conspiracy?
Not sure about that, but fact is if results relied on match officials instead of VAR we would have had an extra four points from the last two home games!

I seem to recall some seasons ago referees were instructed when making offside decisions the benefit of any doubt should always be in favour of the attacking players.cant  ever remember refs doing it through!

Can  others recall that instruction?

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It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just that, like most other referees that are hugely inconsistent, as are the VAR team. Big clubs such as Spurs and Liverpool have fallen foul of it this season, as have many others. As much as I don’t like it, it’s not a cunning plan to rob little Norwich City of points.

Cantwell’s goal was a pretty tight offside call (he was definitely on); I’m sure the VAR team could have ‘doctored’ this too if they’d wanted to.

A lot of Norwich fans think the whole world is against us, from the media to the match officials. It’s about time some removed the chip from their shoulders.

 

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Posted (edited)

Whether it's a conspiracy against us or a conspiracy against football we have been one of the biggest losers so far. In a season where if we escaped the bottom three by hook or by crook it would be deemed a miracle, we have been given this tripe to contend with. 

It seems to me they dig a deeper hole every week with these decisions. Maybe they wanted a tight decision to be a goal because there was so much unrest about the goals they'd struck off earlier. After all they can make any decision they like with their lines and charts. We just fell the wrong side yet again...

But beyond that I'm seriously considering what I want to do in the future. Because I don't want to go to football and not be able to celebrate goals. I don't want to celebrate a penalty save just for it to be retaken because of some stupid VAR line. I don't want to see players sent off but stand at the side of the pitch waiting to be sent back on again. I'm pretty sure I don't want any of that when it goes for us either. But I'll let you know for sure when it happens.....

 

Edited by nutty nigel
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Posted (edited)

VAR is just an inept shambles and really not helping our cause.

 

But the key cause of that goal is the wholly inept defending in the lead up to the goal where we had multiple opportunities to clear and didnt take them,  Byram, Tettey, Vrancic, Aarons, Emi and both CBs could have done just that little bit more.   Once again that has cost us.

 

Edited by ZLF

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11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Whether it's a conspiracy against us or a conspiracy against football we have been one of the biggest losers so far. In a season where if we escaped the bottom three by hook or by crook it would be deemed a miracle, we have been given this tripe to contend with. 

It seems to me they dig a deeper hole every week with these decisions. Maybe they wanted a tight decision to be a goal because there was so much unrest about the goals they'd struck off earlier. After all they can make any decision they like with their lines and charts. We just fell the wrong side yet again...

But beyond that I'm seriously considering what I want to do in the future. Because I don't want to go to football and not be able to celebrate goals. I don't want to celebrate a penalty save just for it to be retaken because of some stupid VAR line. I don't want to see players sent off but stand at the side of the pitch waiting to be sent back on again. I'm pretty sure I don't want any of that when it goes for us either. But I'll let you know for sure when it happens.....

 

Yep, not being able to properly celebrate Cantwells goal with Todd right in front of us was a real eye-opener to how much VAR really does suck salty balls.

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16 hours ago, Matt Morriss said:

That's exactly it, the Pukki one we can accept because of the pedantic nature of the rule now.

We have to move on from it, but I cannot accept that it was in any way offside, even by the rules of var. The var officials simply got it wrong.

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yep, not being able to properly celebrate Cantwells goal with Todd right in front of us was a real eye-opener to how much VAR really does suck salty balls.

Yes. Absolutely this. Even at home watching I had no sense of a goal being scored. It was like there was no reaction to it at all, just a sense that there was a decision to be made, not a celebration.

If a linesman puts his flag up, it's instant, but even if he keeps it down now,  you still know you have to wait. Spontaneity is gradually being removed from the game, like a lot of other areas in life through the overuse or mis-appropriate use of technology. 

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If VAR did not exist we would have 4-6 points more and Brighton would have 2-4 points less.

Despite the fact we are somewhat adrift at the bottom it does not take a genius to see that its had a huge impact on the table/outcome of certain games.

Now some might say that's a good thing because the table is no longer being distorted by refereeing errors. i don;t agree obviously as I don;t think Pukki was offside and I don;t think the Wickham offside was an obvious error.

It won;t be the reason why we go down but in a season that was always going to be about fine margins its certainly giving us a little push towards the cliff edge.

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