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Thanks for that! Hero in my eyes, just seems genuinely down to earth and decent bloke. Something our recruitment team seems to consider when checking players out. Again players are just normal guys who happen to kick a ball about for the most part, I think we all tend to forget this sometimes.

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I admire our clubs stance, we’ve not sold any of our best 11 added to our youth potential for next season and not risked our financial stability. Sheffield have a mega rich owner who is funding the club, we don’t have this, but we have bought with one eye on losing a few in the summer having ready made young quality replacements.

Its not spectacular but it’s not an awful window!

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I don’t begrudge people being paid what they can get, but in terms of money many of these guys are really out of touch with how everyone else lives. The ‘it’s a short career’ only works to a point: if in a week you get paid 2x the national average annual salary you only need to work for twenty weeks to earn what an average person will earn in their entire working life, and in a year will more than double it.

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7 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t begrudge people being paid what they can get, but in terms of money many of these guys are really out of touch with how everyone else lives. The ‘it’s a short career’ only works to a point: if in a week you get paid 2x the national average annual salary you only need to work for twenty weeks to earn what an average person will earn in their entire working life, and in a year will more than double it.

Absolutely, I don't think I phrased that bit very clearly - I wasn't saying the argument was legit or agreeing with it, just saying that's what is put out there - I'd be in favour of salary cap and salary floor but the cartel at the top will never allow that. I meant that I have no problem with them being well paid, but it's got out of control. They should be capped around 20k per week. That enables them to make enough money during their career to be comfortable without it being ridiculous, and in line with top of the profession in other entertainment industries (albeit Hollywood etc has more longevity).

Edited by kick it off

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I get you, but I try not to think about it. Ultimately it's the same as actors, arguably some say they're one and the same... That's entertainment and the price we all pay. Branston, that's a very deep conversational piece too be fair.

We all moan about this forum but I reckon Pink Un is up there with other teams' football chats when it comes to the level of conversation topics! Hats off to you all!

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21 minutes ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

I saw him in the city last Monday day wandering through with his gf, looked like a normal guy, a huge unit but regular dude. From what I read Dortmund were going to release him and he was going into IT before Farke took him here. I quite believe that, Zimbo does look like an IT technician who, on the side, listens to death metal but hasn't grown his hair out. 🙂

And occasionally forgets the difference between hands and feet. At the end of the day they're all nodes 

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1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t begrudge people being paid what they can get, but in terms of money many of these guys are really out of touch with how everyone else lives. The ‘it’s a short career’ only works to a point: if in a week you get paid 2x the national average annual salary you only need to work for twenty weeks to earn what an average person will earn in their entire working life, and in a year will more than double it.

Not arguing with your maths, but tax would in reality alter that quite a lot. 

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8 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Not arguing with your maths, but tax would in reality alter that quite a lot. 

We all pay tax, your point is rather invalid.

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8 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

We all pay tax, your point is rather invalid.

No, it doesn't. Not in a progressive tax system.

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2 hours ago, kirku said:

No, it doesn't. Not in a progressive tax system.

Really? I think you’ll find we all pay tax and the rates are the same for all of us.  Unless you live in a different country. I’m an accountant and am fully aware hie it works.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Really? I think you’ll find we all pay tax and the rates are the same for all of us.  Unless you live in a different country. I’m an accountant and am fully aware hie it works.

I think that they were agreeing with your general point. My take is that they were pointing out that it might take your average championship squad filler 2 seasons rather than 1 to earn what rather average worker makes in an entire working lifetime as most of their salary will be taxed at 45% rather than 20% 

Edited by Barbe bleu
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15 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think that they were agreeing with your general point. I think they were pointing out that it might take your average championship squad filler 2 seasons rather than 1 to earn what rather average worker makes in an entire working lifetime as most amount their salary will be taxed at 45% rather than 20% 

Yep

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A quick Google search comes up with some tax stats for the EPL 2016/7 season.

Perhaps more recent seasons are available but the 2016/7 season will do for asking this question.

The EPL paid £3.3 billion in all taxes combined for that year with the contribution from tax on players earnings being £1.1 billion

If players wages are capped, then what would be the effect on the tax take, would it go up or down?

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23 minutes ago, Molly Windley said:

A quick Google search comes up with some tax stats for the EPL 2016/7 season.

Perhaps more recent seasons are available but the 2016/7 season will do for asking this question.

The EPL paid £3.3 billion in all taxes combined for that year with the contribution from tax on players earnings being £1.1 billion

If players wages are capped, then what would be the effect on the tax take, would it go up or down?

If players wages were capped a loophole would be found or the whole gravy train would move on somewhere else where they weren't capped.

Edited by nutty nigel

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

If players wages were capped a loophole would be found or the whole gravy train would move on somewhere else where they weren't capped.

That is the major difference between the oft lauded NFL player cap situation and the EPL.

The NFL player has nowhere else to go

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I wouldn't mind if they appeared grateful. Probably some are but many seem to think they are being hard done by.

Sanchez being the prime example recently. Playing well for Arsenal but goes to Manure, under Mourinho, just purely for the money and complains he is being played out of position. Head down son and get on with it. The fans will respect you for trying.

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5 minutes ago, Molly Windley said:

That is the major difference between the oft lauded NFL player cap situation and the EPL.

The NFL player has nowhere else to go

Thats why I said in my post referencing NFL that it wouldn't be directly transferrable, but that FIFA need to do something as a global body - it wouldnt work on a national scale.

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2 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Thats why I said in my post referencing NFL that it wouldn't be directly transferrable, but that FIFA need to do something as a global body - it wouldnt work on a national scale.

If FIFA or UEFA tried to get involved then we would see a breakaway from the top clubs in Europe and they would suck all the revenues in. The governing bodies would be powerless to stop it and the clubs would form their own European Premier League with its own governing body.

If player A gets paid £5K, £20K or £100K a week it bothers me not at all, good luck to them.

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2 hours ago, Molly Windley said:

If FIFA or UEFA tried to get involved then we would see a breakaway from the top clubs in Europe and they would suck all the revenues in. The governing bodies would be powerless to stop it and the clubs would form their own European Premier League with its own governing body.

And there is the Nub of it, the money is so immense , they could move all the top teams in Europe to a Cluster of indoor stadiums, with digital crowds  in Saudi Arabia and play out a TV only league and still make a fortune.  

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6 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Really? I think you’ll find we all pay tax and the rates are the same for all of us.  Unless you live in a different country. I’m an accountant and am fully aware hie it works.

No, we do not all pay tax at the same rate. That is quite literally the definition of a progressive tax system, which we have in the UK.

Are you really an accountant?! 

Edited by kirku

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1 minute ago, kirku said:

No, we do not all pay tax at the same rate. Are you really an accountant?!

That’s not what he said though is it! Read it again.....we all pay tax and the rates are the same for all of us, meaning you pay the same rate of tax into each tax threshold you move into with your wages or income.

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7 minutes ago, Indy said:

That’s not what he said though is it! Read it again.....we all pay tax and the rates are the same for all of us, meaning you pay the same rate of tax into each tax threshold you move into with your wages or income.

And those rates are not the same for the national average wage as it is for those in the highest bracket.

As someone else pointed out, the tax paid at the highest rate will have an impact way beyond the simplistic "they earn the national average in a week therefore they earn a lifetime earnings in about 20 weeks".

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5 hours ago, kirku said:

And those rates are not the same for the national average wage as it is for those in the highest bracket.

As someone else pointed out, the tax paid at the highest rate will have an impact way beyond the simplistic "they earn the national average in a week therefore they earn a lifetime earnings in about 20 weeks".

That’s what Thresholds Are! the National doesn’t have an average it has different bands depending on how you get paid and your income, if you get a pay rise which takes you into a higher threshold that’s no different to anyone in this country so people don’t pay different taxes they pay a % of that band earnings, dependant on earnings and bonuses. We all pay the same tax, then some get charged additional tax rate on anything earned above the lower threshold and so and on to the higher end tax band. But everyone will pay the same rates up to the lower threshold 

Edited by Indy

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8 hours ago, Indy said:

That’s what Thresholds Are! the National doesn’t have an average it has different bands depending on how you get paid and your income, if you get a pay rise which takes you into a higher threshold that’s no different to anyone in this country so people don’t pay different taxes they pay a % of that band earnings, dependant on earnings and bonuses. We all pay the same tax, then some get charged additional tax rate on anything earned above the lower threshold and so and on to the higher end tax band. But everyone will pay the same rates up to the lower threshold 

Incorrect. Personal allowance tapers and earners over £125k a year have none.

National average of £30k a year would take home about £24k (20% on £17.5k + ~£2.5k NIC).

A £10k a week Championship player would take around 3.5-4 years to earn approximate lifetime earnings of the national average.

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1 hour ago, kirku said:

Incorrect. Personal allowance tapers and earners over £125k a year have none.

National average of £30k a year would take home about £24k (20% on £17.5k + ~£2.5k NIC).

A £10k a week Championship player would take around 3.5-4 years to earn approximate lifetime earnings of the national average.

I really can’t be arsed anymore, but here you go! The same for everyone in the uk unless you have a creative accountant who sets you up as a business.....

Tax-free personal allowance £12,500 (unless income is above £100,000, after which you lose £1 of personal allowance for every £2 earned.)

Basic-rate taxpayer (20%) £1-£34,500 (after allowances)

Higher-rate taxpayer (40%) Taxable income over £34,500.

Additional-rate taxpayer (45%) Taxable income over £150,000.

That’s the same for everyone, that’s the guideline thresholds and I really can’t see why you’re still arguing. 

 

 

 

Edited by Indy

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Higher rate (40%) is over £50k not £34.5k

I think I've made the point clearly enough by now - "we" don't all pay the same tax. Especially not when we're comparing the national average wage to the top, I don't know, 0.3% of earners.

Edited by kirku

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3 hours ago, kirku said:

Higher rate (40%) is over £50k not £34.5k

I think I've made the point clearly enough by now - "we" don't all pay the same tax. Especially not when we're comparing the national average wage to the top, I don't know, 0.3% of earners.

You’re a bit hard work aren’t you.....these are UKGOV figures from their website, the first band added to the higher end is £50 k, you take the tax allowance at £12,500 which everyone is free from tax, then the next band is 20% tax up to the additional £37, 500, and after that any earnings are subjected to 40% up to £150,000 after that you fall into the 45% on anything over ,.......it’s very easy to understand even for you! (34,500 was wrong, typo on my behalf.)

You don’t get taxed at 40% tax on all your earnings, you pay that rate of tax in each band! So everyone is taxed the same.......can’t lay it out any simpler!

 

Edited by Indy

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

.....it’s very easy to understand even for you! (34,500 was wrong, typo on my behalf.)

You don’t get taxed at 40% tax on all your earnings, you pay that rate of tax in each band! So everyone is taxed the same.......can’t lay it out any simpler!

 

I did a completely accurate calculation of take home pay on a £30k salary off the top of my head earlier in the thread and then laid out roughly how long that'd take at £10k a week. So I'm well aware of how tax bandings work.

You can keep your patronising nonsense, "typos" and, also stop pretending that you took the figures from the Government website, because here's what it actually looks like:

image.thumb.png.239c35626ded673f120ab9f7b451169c.png

The absurdity of banging on about people being "hard work", or asserting that "we all pay the same tax" can't be understated.

Edited by kirku

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42 minutes ago, kirku said:

I did a completely accurate calculation of take home pay on a £30k salary off the top of my head earlier in the thread and then laid out roughly how long that'd take at £10k a week. So I'm well aware of how tax bandings work.

You can keep your patronising nonsense, "typos" and, also stop pretending that you took the figures from the Government website, because here's what it actually looks like:

image.thumb.png.239c35626ded673f120ab9f7b451169c.png

The absurdity of banging on about people being "hard work", or asserting that "we all pay the same tax" can't be understated.

You tried to be clever to Branston and question him as being an accountant when what he stated was correct we all pay the same tax and are subject to the same thresholds!

Now you’re trying to back tracking yes I read the UK GOV figure and by the time I transferred to hear I put in 34,500 when I meant 37,500 so shoot me, but as above this was what we said to you.....you’re the one who thought anyone earning £40k was subject to a different tax system!

I think you’re the one being pedantic to Branston when clearly you were wrong!

Edited by Indy

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What on earth are you on about now? £40k? Different tax system? Nonsense, the lot of it.

My very first post in this thread was about the impact of a progressive tax system.

Quote

A progressive tax is a tax that imposes a lower tax rate on low-income earners compared to those with a higher income, making it based on the taxpayer's ability to pay. That means it takes a larger percentage from high-income earners than it does from low-income individuals.

It shouldn't take a genius to understand the relevance of that to this thread. I even gave a very clear worked through example.

Edit: I've finally understood, sort of, why you seem so confused:

Quote

..the National doesn’t have an average it has different bands depending on how you get paid and your income..

I'm not entirely sure what it means but you do seem to have missed practically the entire point; it was the length of time for a footballer to earn the national average lifetime earnings. So whatever "the National doesn't have an average" means to you, it doesn't seem to be that.

Edited by kirku

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