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Not unlucky. Not clever.

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9 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

So if you **** it up once (buying a player) you should never do it again😂😂😂

If it involves a fee of £8.5 million and wages of £30 to £40,000 over a three and a half year contract plus a bonus at the end of that contract if the player doesn't leave in that time then you definitely, definitely, definitely shouldn't do it again!!! 

Thankfully the people currently running the club haven't. 

They have however brought in Teemu Pukki on a free transfer, Emi Buendia for £5 million, Tim Krul on a free transfer, Kenny McLean for £200,000, Christoph Zimmermann for under a million, Mario Vrancic, Marco Stiepermann and Moritz Leitner for fees in the region of a million, Onel Hernandez for £1.7 million and Sam Bryam for £750,000. At the same time they have brought Jamal Lewis, Max Aarons, Ben Godfrey and Todd Cantwell through into the first team and lined up plenty of exciting talent in our Under 23's and Under 18's of whom today's hat-trick scorer Adam Idah is just one. 

Call it a gut feeling if you will, but if they say they've got a long term plan for our club (and that includes the possibility of relegation this season), I'm willing to trust them. 

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11 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

If it involves a fee of £8.5 million and wages of £30 to £40,000 over a three and a half year contract plus a bonus at the end of that contract if the player doesn't leave in that time then you definitely, definitely, definitely shouldn't do it again!!! 

Thankfully the people currently running the club haven't. 

They have however brought in Teemu Pukki on a free transfer, Emi Buendia for £5 million, Tim Krul on a free transfer, Kenny McLean for £200,000, Christoph Zimmermann for under a million, Mario Vrancic, Marco Stiepermann and Moritz Leitner for fees in the region of a million, Onel Hernandez for £1.7 million and Sam Bryam for £750,000. At the same time they have brought Jamal Lewis, Max Aarons, Ben Godfrey and Todd Cantwell through into the first team and lined up plenty of exciting talent in our Under 23's and Under 18's of whom today's hat-trick scorer Adam Idah is just one. 

Call it a gut feeling if you will, but if they say they've got a long term plan for our club (and that includes the possibility of relegation this season), I'm willing to trust them. 

If the market dictates that the price for a decent player is XYZ, then like every business market in the world to be competitive you have to pay XYZ. Not to do so means you are uncompetitive. Like I say, some people are happy to be run with zero cash flow always selling promising young talent before we can see their full potential and therefore a permanent fixture in second tier English football, others think with a sensible amount of investment would see us established in the top tier attracting better players and keeping, for longer, our great young players.

Not to invest because the current board messed it up last time, is either you saying they do not know the market in which they operate or are not up to the job.

I do not dislike the current board and they have done loads to help stabilise the club and get it on a magnificent debt free footing but they have also 4 relegations, nearly bankrupted the club by panicking in a January window rather than key strengthening in the summer (again).

The long term project? Did it start in 1997 when our owners took control of the club? It's a new strategy born out of necessity not some great master plan made up by footballing geniuses... It works in the lower leagues not the best league, the one I would like us to be successful in....

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23 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

If the market dictates that the price for a decent player is XYZ, then like every business market in the world to be competitive you have to pay XYZ. Not to do so means you are uncompetitive. Like I say, some people are happy to be run with zero cash flow always selling promising young talent before we can see their full potential and therefore a permanent fixture in second tier English football, others think with a sensible amount of investment would see us established in the top tier attracting better players and keeping, for longer, our great young players.

Not to invest because the current board messed it up last time, is either you saying they do not know the market in which they operate or are not up to the job.

I do not dislike the current board and they have done loads to help stabilise the club and get it on a magnificent debt free footing but they have also 4 relegations, nearly bankrupted the club by panicking in a January window rather than key strengthening in the summer (again).

The long term project? Did it start in 1997 when our owners took control of the club? It's a new strategy born out of necessity not some great master plan made up by footballing geniuses... It works in the lower leagues not the best league, the one I would like us to be successful in....

Are you living in some weird parallel universe?

We're not a permanent fixture in second tier English football are we? We're in the Premier League - it appears you haven't noticed. 

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12 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Are you living in some weird parallel universe?

We're not a permanent fixture in second tier English football are we? We're in the Premier League - it appears you haven't noticed. 

Will you stop using facts on this forum please Thirsty. It's not appreciated. 

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Will you stop using facts on this forum please Thirsty. It's not appreciated. 

Yes, I know hogesar. I'm off to a dark room to have a long, stern word with myself................... 

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3 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

If the market dictates that the price for a decent player is XYZ, then like every business market in the world to be competitive you have to pay XYZ. Not to do so means you are uncompetitive. Like I say, some people are happy to be run with zero cash flow always selling promising young talent before we can see their full potential and therefore a permanent fixture in second tier English football, others think with a sensible amount of investment would see us established in the top tier attracting better players and keeping, for longer, our great young players.

Not to invest because the current board messed it up last time, is either you saying they do not know the market in which they operate or are not up to the job.

I do not dislike the current board and they have done loads to help stabilise the club and get it on a magnificent debt free footing but they have also 4 relegations, nearly bankrupted the club by panicking in a January window rather than key strengthening in the summer (again).

The long term project? Did it start in 1997 when our owners took control of the club? It's a new strategy born out of necessity not some great master plan made up by footballing geniuses... It works in the lower leagues not the best league, the one I would like us to be successful in....

Very sensible post. 

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2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Yes, I know hogesar. I'm off to a dark room to have a long, stern word with myself................... 

So how many years have we, as a club, been in the 2nd or indeed 3rd tier of football against being in the top tier? You like facts look it up my friend... I would say that setting a target of top26 probably means at best 2nd tier. Funny how you go all defensive and rather childish when a counter argument is given to yours. A bit sad really because you can and do make some good points.. oh well takes all sorts

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I guess also you have no real argument to the points so get all defensive... You need a long term strategy my friend 😉

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7 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I guess also you have no real argument to the points so get all defensive... You need a long term strategy my friend 😉

My long term strategy is to support Norwich City - I've been doing it since I was 7 and I'm 55 now. 

Perhaps it's because during that time I've seen us play in Division's 1, 2 and 3 (that's what they were called when I first started watching) that I'm able to adopt a more balanced and long term view than you seem able to do. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

8 seasons in the last decade were top 26...

 

I bet the average is higher than 26 in the last decade too?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

My long term strategy is to support Norwich City - I've been doing it since I was 7 and I'm 55 now. 

Perhaps it's because during that time I've seen us play in Division's 1, 2 and 3 (that's what they were called when I first started watching) that I'm able to adopt a more balanced and long term view than you seem able to do. 

 

 

My first season was 1972 pal...if you knew anything about our fine club my user name might have given you a clue... Youngster's eh😂

Edited by Kenny Foggo

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6 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

If the market dictates that the price for a decent player is XYZ, then like every business market in the world to be competitive you have to pay XYZ. Not to do so means you are uncompetitive. Like I say, some people are happy to be run with zero cash flow always selling promising young talent before we can see their full potential and therefore a permanent fixture in second tier English football, others think with a sensible amount of investment would see us established in the top tier attracting better players and keeping, for longer, our great young players.

Not to invest because the current board messed it up last time, is either you saying they do not know the market in which they operate or are not up to the job.

I do not dislike the current board and they have done loads to help stabilise the club and get it on a magnificent debt free footing but they have also 4 relegations, nearly bankrupted the club by panicking in a January window rather than key strengthening in the summer (again).

The long term project? Did it start in 1997 when our owners took control of the club? It's a new strategy born out of necessity not some great master plan made up by footballing geniuses... It works in the lower leagues not the best league, the one I would like us to be successful in....

A very well constructed statement Kenny making some good points.

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

8 seasons in the last decade were top 26...

 

Why select the last decade when the majority shareholders have been at the helm for in excess of twenty years. Could it be that 2000-2010 might not make such good reading ?

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13 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

My first season was 1972 pal...if you knew anything about our fine club my user name might have given you a clue... Youngster's eh😂

1971 for me pardner so as you correctly point out you're a relative youngster 😉 

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

8 seasons in the last decade were top 26...

 

Since being professional we have been in the top flight 25 titles (25%) ...under the current management 5 years (23%).  No football fan EVER shouts about being top 26 😂

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This keeps cropping up, there’s little doubt since the current owners took over football has moved on to be a commercial juggernaut, with most big clubs being bank rolled by very rich owners.

Before the current owners we had our glorious years, spending 19 out 21 seasons in the top flight, winning atrophy and finishing third in the first season of premiership football.

So the reality is we’ve done the last 24 seasons the current owners ways, within two close financial calls and one season of third division football. The plans changed with each change of staff due to the circumstances at that time.

I agree with the OP but we knew our circumstances in the summer, it was pretty clear we wouldn’t be gambling the money and it would be put aside for the financial stability of the current owners, enabling them to carry on in charge with no pressure to make changes. It’s noticeable that the club has moved into a far more business oriented model than being fan focused, money is king.

So some may love the way we do things, love our current owners and put zero pressure on the board, others are craving to move forward to the top 20 table, but that could be said of twelve or more clubs similar to ourselves. Those who will go on in the future will no doubt be those with rich owners, unfortunately we’re not in that bracket, just be happy with our lot in the football life and enjoy dining at the top table this year. 

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23 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Since being professional we have been in the top flight 25 titles (25%) ...under the current management 5 years (23%).  No football fan EVER shouts about being top 26 😂

That lot down road would be positively ecstatic to be in the top 26. 🤣

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38 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Why select the last decade when the majority shareholders have been at the helm for in excess of twenty years. Could it be that 2000-2010 might not make such good reading ?

Well because after the current decade the last decade is the most relevant. Harping back to previous decades to make a statement is binnerish....

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1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Well because after the current decade the last decade is the most relevant. Harping back to previous decades to make a statement is binnerish....

I like to look at the big picture rather than capture a moment in time that can give a false view overall.

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2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I like to look at the big picture rather than capture a moment in time that can give a false view overall.

You're sounding more binnerish by the word. The long term  future is what counts. The past is exactly that, the past, gone, finito. 

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14 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I like to look at the big picture rather than capture a moment in time that can give a false view overall.

I'm glad you can see the bigger picture that our owners have clearly learnt lessons what with it being the first time they've owned a football club and have significantly improved the last 10 years over the previous. Cheers for pointing out how good the next 10 are gonna be. Already excited!!

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Surely the point is that 26th is not really far off our recent average under these owners and is lower than our current status so we really are setting ourselves a target that shows zero ambition to progress and improve and which allows for failure whenever we make the top division. It’s distinctly uninspiring and a tacit admittance that the current ownership structure/model is not fit for premier league football. 

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17 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I like to look at the big picture rather than capture a moment in time that can give a false view overall.

Well the previous decade ended with a load of soothsaying at St Andrews hall. Now, even though this soothsaying returned a few times in the following decade it never came to pass. I like to look at the facts of the matter.

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46 minutes ago, Indy said:

This keeps cropping up, there’s little doubt since the current owners took over football has moved on to be a commercial juggernaut, with most big clubs being bank rolled by very rich owners.

Before the current owners we had our glorious years, spending 19 out 21 seasons in the top flight, winning atrophy and finishing third in the first season of premiership football.

So the reality is we’ve done the last 24 seasons the current owners ways, within two close financial calls and one season of third division football. The plans changed with each change of staff due to the circumstances at that time.

I agree with the OP but we knew our circumstances in the summer, it was pretty clear we wouldn’t be gambling the money and it would be put aside for the financial stability of the current owners, enabling them to carry on in charge with no pressure to make changes. It’s noticeable that the club has moved into a far more business oriented model than being fan focused, money is king.

So some may love the way we do things, love our current owners and put zero pressure on the board, others are craving to move forward to the top 20 table, but that could be said of twelve or more clubs similar to ourselves. Those who will go on in the future will no doubt be those with rich owners, unfortunately we’re not in that bracket, just be happy with our lot in the football life and enjoy dining at the top table this year. 

But according to the soothsayers in 2018 we would now be below Ipswich. Nostradamus they ain't...

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7 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The long term project? Did it start in 1997 when our owners took control of the club? It's a new strategy born out of necessity not some great master plan made up by footballing geniuses... It works in the lower leagues not the best league, the one I would like us to be successful in....

You can't seriously be suggesting that the Premier League is the 'best' league.........

Or maybe you are, which might explain why the rest of your post doesn't make any sense at all.

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

But according to the soothsayers in 2018 we would now be below Ipswich. Nostradamus they ain't...

The problem is everyone has this we could be Ipswich or we could be Man City, but we’re not either, we’re Norwich, we have owners who have control and a way of doing things, they move ideas with each change of circumstances and we’ve had ups and downs, that’s the way of our club in football. Can’t change it, so just enjoy it. 😂👍

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Top 26 is an invention of a marketing person . It’s not a real objective , and has never been mentioned to my knowledge ever before . A bit like saying we gained promotion “a year early” . It’s all guff. 
 

If we are in the top 6 in the championship next year - our objective will be to go up . If we don’t , do we will alter the objective ? 
 

This is what management speak gurus call “managing expectation” - another pile of drivel. 
 

Our objective is to win as many games as possible and take it from there. When we lose too many we sack our manager . When we win lots we go up. If we go down next year and are bottom of the table at Christmas there will be changes - and the new objective will be to start winning again. 
 

At the start of last season what was our objective? What was it last Christmas? What was it in April? It changes by the month based on results . 
 

 

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6 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

The long term project? Did it start in 1997 when our owners took control of the club?

Yes, it started in 1997. Of course it did. The long term plan has always been to get a settled heirachy of management and of building from within the club and emulating the 70's/80's/early 90's when that policy culminated in such highs as Bayern Munich and the top three in the PL.

Football is a notoriously difficult industry to be involved in at ownership level and yet throughout their tenure DS and MJW have tried throughout to find the best way of achieving a sustainable club that builds from within - making mistakes along the way, but some great times too. 

So they have always pursued a project that at it's heart a policy of togetheness and building from within - but that is not easy to do.  Keeping Worthy too long was a thing - and they tried Megson and Grant out of a sense of wanting to keep things Norwich based.  Ok, that didn't work out and they had to change tack and Roeder appeared to be a safe pair of hands to start building again.......ok, that didn't work so what did they do? Tried to find a Norwich way again - the Gunn/Crook/Butterworth partnership. That could have worked given time imo, but spectacularly imploded as we know.

Then we had McNally - an inspired signing by the owners - who got us out of the Norwich build from within idea and got us Lambert, Hughton and Neil.  All ok and did the job up to a point, Lambert was sensational, but it was leading nowhere - he got us to the top and staying there one season, but there was no building for the future - and he left us under a cloud. So Hughton was to rebuild the club and establish a way of things that would stand the test of time - and we all know what happened there. On to Neil who did great, except he couldn't handle the PL at that time - but if he had done well the season after the relegation and got us back to the PL, the plan would have looked great - a young manager, learning the job and starting to get young players through etc etc.....he could have been at Norwich for years - except he lost his way.

So on to Webber and Farke - and a bright new progressive world.  And boy did it work! We have what they wanted all along, a financially sustainable club with a great set up throughout - with great people at the heart of the football club, a sense of togetherness possibly even better than with Lambert when he was at Norwich. 

So through all the ups and downs since 1997, what do we find?  in 2020 a club that is at it's most at ease with itself than it ever has been before. Finances sorted, youth policy sorted, infrastructure sorted and improving all the time, playing good football at the highest level of the game and getting plaudits from those that see us play.

If you look just skin deep, you look and say - there is a club with no money at the bottom of the PL going down.....but that is so wrong in so many ways - and to me it doesn't feel like that.  I still think there is a chance we can get back up in the mix - and even if we don't, the kind of football we are playing is at times a joy to watch. So if we go down, we are still going to be in good shape.

The long term project is working - the basket case of a club we were in 1997 has transformed 23 years later into a fantastic club almost unrecogniseable from the one inherited by DS and MJW.  Their long term project has always been to create something sustainable - not just in finances but in personell in the club and a building from within, both in players and the youth policy and in management - which I am sure there are plans about, should anyone leave. 

Sorry this is so long winded, but I cannot understand why people are still harping on about the owners. We are lucky to have them, they have overseen lots of success as well as some failure - ups and downs - highs and lows - in short a roller coaster of a time when plenty other of bigger clubs have done very little over the last twenty three years - all in an era where money talks and at a club that has never, ever, had much money.

We have - and are still getting - unforgettable things to remember happening - and long may it continue.  I am accused often of being too positive, but really, you only have to look at the last two years - we are a club transformed from something that was already pretty special, into a club that is just about as special as you could imagine. The manager is loved, the players are brilliant in skill and attitude, the latest highlight being Adam Idah and his emergence, which will continue at pace.

Great club, great owners and yet the only complaint people can come up with is "but we hent got no hinvestment".

Open your eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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