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The Real Buh

Daily reminder that Pukki was Onside

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Now run the blue line up to the Spurs players right hand. Why was that not considered his furthermost point forward because if you do that Teemu is definitely onside.

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Just now, duke63 said:

Now run the blue line up to the Spurs players right hand. Why was that not considered his furthermost point forward because if you do that Teemu is definitely onside.

The arms/hands are not part of it, hence the line going to Pukki's arm pit.  I cannot see how that is not at least level.

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I want several huge banners hanging in the Barclay making our feelings on VAR clear. If this was done Wednesday I guess Palace would be taking the idea back to Selhurst Park and Wolves and Sheffield United wouldn’t be far behind.

On a serious note I really believe sooner or later this will boil over either in the stands or on the pitch not necessarily at FCR but certainly at Wolves, where there has already been one incident. As much as I dislike Wolves they are a class outfit yet the EPL seem to be doing everything they can to stop them winning a champions league place from their beloved top 6 sides.

I work in a large restaurant. We were told all the controversy in decisions would be removed from the game. Last night all I heard was people slating VAR. I have to say the deciding of the handball yesterday by Van Dijk as being inconclusive ( at the beginning of the move ) when stills clearly show a handball has just made the situation worse. Our decision and that decision is the final part of the conspiracy theory that certain clubs are favoured and others are unfavoured ( if that’s a word ).

It is time for fans from various clubs to unite, or the VAR to explain some of their decisions, they soon explained their none decision yesterday - inconclusive - my ****, corrupt- probably not but you would have a difficult job if you were the FA proving it isn’t.

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Please do start a new thread posting this every day until we no longer have to deal with VAR. A ridiculous decision that should not be underestimated in its unfairness...

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21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The arms/hands are not part of it, hence the line going to Pukki's arm pit.  I cannot see how that is not at least level.

Not for the defender, it is only the attacker that this applies to hence why there is also an outcry about the Palace goal being disallowed. Side on ( the true angle ) he is clearly a yard onside, a frame back when Vantric actually made contact with the ball ( not when it was travelling ) even with these angles he is well onside. Our own manager is quoted as saying this was played with until they found a way to make Pukki offside, yet amazingly has not been charged by the FA for all but calling them cheats.

Connor Coady summed it up yesterday when he said we are on the pitch, we know and as professional footballers our instincts tell us what has just happened it was handball. 

The FA should charge Farke and Coady but they won’t, knowing full well if they do it will be the end of their beloved VAR.
 

 

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26 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I want several huge banners hanging in the Barclay making our feelings on VAR clear. If this was done Wednesday I guess Palace would be taking the idea back to Selhurst Park and Wolves and Sheffield United wouldn’t be far behind.

On a serious note I really believe sooner or later this will boil over either in the stands or on the pitch not necessarily at FCR but certainly at Wolves, where there has already been one incident. As much as I dislike Wolves they are a class outfit yet the EPL seem to be doing everything they can to stop them winning a champions league place from their beloved top 6 sides.

I work in a large restaurant. We were told all the controversy in decisions would be removed from the game. Last night all I heard was people slating VAR. I have to say the deciding of the handball yesterday by Van Dijk as being inconclusive ( at the beginning of the move ) when stills clearly show a handball has just made the situation worse. Our decision and that decision is the final part of the conspiracy theory that certain clubs are favoured and others are unfavoured ( if that’s a word ).

It is time for fans from various clubs to unite, or the VAR to explain some of their decisions, they soon explained their none decision yesterday - inconclusive - my ****, corrupt- probably not but you would have a difficult job if you were the FA proving it isn’t.

As far as I know, the ACN/BEN guys have to have all the banners checked by someone at the club before they're allowed to use them. Would be interested to know if the club 'okayed' the use of the 'CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING' banner that appeared in the Barclay on Saturday... can't imagine they would have sanctioned it?

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The VAR guys in the bunker can put those lines wherever they want.

Who is checking that they doing this fairly and that they are not manipulating the position of the lines to facilitate the result they want.

Clearly this is open to abuse because nobody else has access to the videos they are looking at.

I think VAR should be renamed GPO - Goal Prevention Official

 

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Good point but I have a feeling there will be some nothing to do with this group.

As I mentioned previously I am astounded that the FA have not charged Farke and Coady as they both as good as said there was cheating involved in how the decisions were arrived at. As I also mentioned I believe they won’t charge them as in a public hearing VAR could be torn apart and the FA will finish up having to show why they used a frame whilst the ball was travelling to eventually rule Pukki offside.

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6 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

As far as I know, the ACN/BEN guys have to have all the banners checked by someone at the club before they're allowed to use them. Would be interested to know if the club 'okayed' the use of the 'CLEARLY AND OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING' banner that appeared in the Barclay on Saturday... can't imagine they would have sanctioned it?

Why is everyone so scared of criticising VAR? Why are all the clubs, managers and players going down the “well we need to give it more time” route? The reactions as the events happen speak volumes. What are the FA going to do? Ban you Or fine you and make you a martyr? I say go both barrels on them. Signs specifically calling for sackings, cardboard cofffins for the death of football. The lot.

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3 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Why is everyone so scared of criticising VAR? Why are all the clubs, managers and players going down the “well we need to give it more time” route? The reactions as the events happen speak volumes. What are the FA going to do? Ban you Or fine you and make you a martyr? I say go both barrels on them. Signs specifically calling for sackings, cardboard cofffins for the death of football. The lot.

Totally agree. I guess it's that nobody wants to be the first and risk having the book thrown at them.

It's also possible that the club has been compiling a dossier of evidence about the implementation of VAR and has taken this up with the PL privately, which would still address the problem but not risk ostracising the club in the same way that a strident public standpoint would do.

Either way, seems like the movement is gathering momentum.

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9 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Why is everyone so scared of criticising VAR? Why are all the clubs, managers and players going down the “well we need to give it more time” route? The reactions as the events happen speak volumes. What are the FA going to do? Ban you Or fine you and make you a martyr? I say go both barrels on them. Signs specifically calling for sackings, cardboard cofffins for the death of football. The lot.

I think that changed this weekend ? Both Farke and Coady let rip suggesting sinister goings on. The FA haven’t charged them because the dare not. Hodgson and Farke need to do a joint presser asking why both our goals were ruled out on Saturday.

For once being ‘ the smaller club ‘ is helping as we are being held up to the whole of football as proof of what we all thought about clubs playing the top 6, it is no longer something we imagine to be true their decisions are doing it for them.

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9 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Totally agree. I guess it's that nobody wants to be the first and risk having the book thrown at them.

It's also possible that the club has been compiling a dossier of evidence about the implementation of VAR and has taken this up with the PL privately, which would still address the problem but not risk ostracising the club in the same way that a strident public standpoint would do.

Either way, seems like the movement is gathering momentum.

Farke was and he hasn’t had the book thrown at him.

The FA and EPL are clearly visible today from their absence in the debate. They cannot get involved as they know they cannot explain some of the strange goings on over the weekend.

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I wonder what the likes of Brian Clough, Jock Stein, Bill Shankly and Don Revie would be making of all this.

My guess is that they wouldn't have stood for it.

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29 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Why is everyone so scared of criticising VAR? Why are all the clubs, managers and players going down the “well we need to give it more time” route? The reactions as the events happen speak volumes. What are the FA going to do? Ban you Or fine you and make you a martyr? I say go both barrels on them. Signs specifically calling for sackings, cardboard cofffins for the death of football. The lot.

Because every club in the PL signed up for this before the season started. Dermot Gallagher was just on Sky talking about it and he’s saying it’s here to stay but maybe not in this format, at the end of the season there may be tweaks to the rules (like the Souness idea) Or another may be used. He’s right in what he’s saying though, the fans may not like it but all of the decisions were correct because offside is offside, you are on or you’re not. For me every decision over the weekend involving several clubs should have been goals. but over analysing of human error is what has got us to this point and now we’re getting the harshest of correct decisions no one wants it. To quote a common phrase used on the forum, we should have been careful what we wished for.

Edited by JF

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7 minutes ago, JF said:

Because every club in the PL signed up for this before the season started. Dermot Gallagher was just on Sky talking about it and he’s saying it’s here to stay but maybe not in this format, at the end of the season there may be tweaks to the rules (like the Souness idea) Or another may be used. He’s right in what he’s saying though, the fans may not like it but all of the decisions were correct because offside is offside, you are on or you’re not. For me every decision over the weekend involving several clubs should have been goals. but over analysing of human error is what has got us to this point and now we’re getting the harshest of correct decisions no one wants it. To quote a common phrase used on the forum, we should have been careful what we wished for.

Hope the club's kept their receipts because VAR is by what was promised

clear and obvious they said 

 

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1 minute ago, The Real Buh said:

Hope the club's kept their receipts because VAR is by what was promised

clear and obvious they said 

 

I just don’t think when it was bought in they realised just how many decisions were going to be ruled off by a couple of millimetres. The technology is sound and the reasoning is sound in a cold and emotionless way, you’re simply offside or onside. But as we know football isn’t emotionless. Technology has been introduced without the hindsight that the laws of the game will cause more controversy coupled with that technology. An idea has to be in place where the laws of the game are changed so the two can co exist with minimum controversy. 

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I don’t believe it’s favouring the big or top six clubs. I just think it’s run by a bunch of self important jobsworths who are using it to take over the game, the technology is not accurate enough for them to be ruling out such marginal offsides so it’s being used excessively  and it’s also highlighting flaws in the rules that will need to be changed if VAR is to continue being used.

 

there is supposedly a 40cm margin for error when using VAR for offsides. That in itself (if true) shows it’s not fit for “this” purpose. Stick to goal line technology, serious foul play and clear and obvious errors. 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, JF said:

Because every club in the PL signed up for this before the season started. Dermot Gallagher was just on Sky talking about it and he’s saying it’s here to stay but maybe not in this format, at the end of the season there may be tweaks to the rules (like the Souness idea) Or another may be used. He’s right in what he’s saying though, the fans may not like it but all of the decisions were correct because offside is offside, you are on or you’re not. For me every decision over the weekend involving several clubs should have been goals. but over analysing of human error is what has got us to this point and now we’re getting the harshest of correct decisions no one wants it. To quote a common phrase used on the forum, we should have been careful what we wished for.

I’m sorry but that Pukki decision was not correct however you look at it because the angles and lines are wrong. 

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He was 100 % clearly and obviously onside and through every preceding season that goal would never have been a debate and stood. Likewise the same in several other clubs games. If the clubs themselves aren't going to rock the var boat then us fans nationally really need to unite, let us be first if necessary and get these banners up. It's the fan in the grounds suffering most so that's where we tell the FA. 

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23 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

I wonder what the likes of Brian Clough, Jock Stein, Bill Shankly and Don Revie would be making of all this.

My guess is that they wouldn't have stood for it.

Cloughie would've gone down there & chinned 'em.

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4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I’m sorry but that Pukki decision was not correct however you look at it because the angles and lines are wrong. 

That’s the thing though isn’t it. We can all sit here and say it’s not correct, it isn’t correct in the spirit of the game. But the technology has him offside probably by a finger nails width. The problem isn’t the technology it’s the rules haven’t been updated for such fine margins 

Edited by JF

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17 minutes ago, JF said:

Because every club in the PL signed up for this before the season started. Dermot Gallagher was just on Sky talking about it and he’s saying it’s here to stay but maybe not in this format, at the end of the season there may be tweaks to the rules (like the Souness idea) Or another may be used. He’s right in what he’s saying though, the fans may not like it but all of the decisions were correct because offside is offside, you are on or you’re not. For me every decision over the weekend involving several clubs should have been goals. but over analysing of human error is what has got us to this point and now we’re getting the harshest of correct decisions no one wants it. To quote a common phrase used on the forum, we should have been careful what we wished for.

It was to avoid clear and obvious errors, or so we were led to believe. In my mind it's actually created them.

If we get relegated by a 2 points difference that farcical decision against Pukki may have cost us around £100m.

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

It was to avoid clear and obvious errors, or so we were led to believe. In my mind it's actually created them.

If we get relegated by a 2 points difference that farcical decision against Pukki may have cost us around £100m.

Agreed. It’s here to stay in this format this season so we have to hope at some point that we get such a call go in our favour to even it out

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Just now, JF said:

That’s the thing though isn’t it. We can all sit here and say it’s not correct, it isn’t correct in the spirit of the game. But the technology has him offside probably by a finger nails width. The problem isn’t the technology it’s the rules haven’t been updated for such fine decisions 

I don’t think there is any dispute that such goals should not be disallowed, it’s not what the offside rule was introduced for. I also agree that this is mainly a point relating to the rules that has been brought to prominence by/highlighted by VAR. the solution lies primarily in changes to the rules.

however in this instance I am also questioning the technology. There was/is not the right camera angle. I remain unconvinced they used the right frame or were able to get an accurate enough frame. It is not accurate enough for them to be making claims about players being mm offside and disallowing goals so until they can be more accurate (perhaps in combination with the rule changes) they should just not be using it for this. They are presenting decisions scientifically and claiming they are precise but they are not and they are subject to no proper scrutiny either. 

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Why is the line drawn against the defenders knee and not his head or armpit?  As far as I can see the defender’s armpit and head are further forward.  By extending the dotted line drawn against the defender’s knee upward it hits his upper body somewhere around his upper ribcage, extending the line further it shows almost all of the defenders shoulder and part of his head were forward of the line, ergo Pukki’s armpit hair(s) were not offside.  IMO, this smacks of incompetence at best and gross misconduct or deliberate misuse of the system at worst. 

Do others see this or am I wearing the wrong glasses?

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6 minutes ago, JF said:

Agreed. It’s here to stay in this format this season so we have to hope at some point that we get such a call go in our favour to even it out

Even if a cal goes our way (pfff) I’m not comfortable with it

 

VAR is an existential threat to Top level football. This is a lot bigger than some people think.

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