Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×
Sign in to follow this  
The Great Mass Debater

VAR Table

Recommended Posts

Found this quite by chance. Seems it may be a live page as well (ie will update rather than being a snapshot of this present point in time)

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/3929823/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club

 

Brighton & Hove Albion +6

Manchester United +3

Southampton +3

Crystal Palace +2

Leicester City +2

AFC Bournemouth +1

Burnley +1

Newcastle +1

Watford +1

Liverpool 0

Manchester City 0

Tottenham Hotspur 0

Arsenal -1

Aston Villa -1

Everton -1

Chelsea -2

Norwich City -3

West Ham -3

Wolves -4

Sheffield United -5

Edited by The Great Mass Debater
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That will upset all those on the “Liverpool VAR” thread having strokes because they think that the only reason Liverpool are top is because of VAR. Although they will probably claim that these stats are fixed too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mr Angry said:

That will upset all those on the “Liverpool VAR” thread having strokes because they think that the only reason Liverpool are top is because of VAR. Although they will probably claim that these stats are fixed too.

Liverpool are where they are on merit and deservedly so. I think they’ve had a few VAR decisions go against them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have absolutely no doubt when Liverpool win the league a good percentage of people, myself included, will do everything to taint it by making it the “you only won because of VAR title”

 

it’s nothing less than what they deserve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

That will upset all those on the “Liverpool VAR” thread having strokes because they think that the only reason Liverpool are top is because of VAR. Although they will probably claim that these stats are fixed too.

They picked the most favourable frames and fiddled the lines😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you’ve had more VARs go against you, doesn’t that suggest the refs on field are, if anything, giving you decisions you shouldn’t be getting? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Not 100% sure how this works (eg does Man U’s dodgy pen -saved- count?), but suggests we’ve had a fair few var’s go against. 

If you click the ESPN link it explains it. Having looked harder though it doesnt include yesterdays events, so we should be on -4 not -3 by my reckoning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A chart like this is all very well but it doesn't take in account what the state of the game was when the VAR decision was made.

There's a lot of difference between a goal being disallowed by VAR when a team is winning 3-0 up than when the score is 0-0 or 1-0.

Then it's a totally different situation that is open to manipulation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

A chart like this is all very well but it doesn't take in account what the state of the game was when the VAR decision was made.

There's a lot of difference between a goal being disallowed by VAR when a team is winning 3-0 up than when the score is 0-0 or 1-0.

Then it's a totally different situation that is open to manipulation

And there's also the question of things that were not referred to VAR when they should have been. I wonder how many 'Pukki-style' offsides have been very quickly checked and someone at Stockley Park has just quickly said to the ref "yeah give the goal"?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are probably bottom of this table now. If you click on the link, it is live, ie updates, but it doesnt yet include the Palace VAR decision, so add that in and we're right down the bottom.

Whether the calls are right or wrong, in a world without VAR changing decisions, we would have 6 points more I think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, it has now updated. We're not quite bottom, only Sheffield Utd have been more hard done by than us (telling as also promoted club?) though considering their points tally, has it been as harmful? ie they have had the most decisions go against them, but has it cost them them as many points? (ie if they're 3-0 up and get a 4th checked off it makes no difference to their points tally)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Of course it's not just the ones that went against us. There are also the ones that went for others. Huge swings with Southampton and Brighton.

 

Edited by nutty nigel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Of course it's not just the ones that went against us. There are also the ones that went for others. Huge swings with Southampton and Brighton.

 

I hadnt really thought of that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not surprising we are so far down but the main reason we are struggling is injuries at the start of the campaign, a lack of good fortune which most teams have from time to time and failure to address particular areas of the squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I wouldn't be in such a hurry to let this VAR issue of the hook. I know it's the "in thing" to say we're just sh!t rather than hard done by. But I think we need to look at these incidents separately because they are unique and will only happen once. 

Edited by nutty nigel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/01/2020 at 00:12, Midlands Yellow said:

We have been very hard done by but it’s not the main reason we’re going down . BTW nor are injuries.

Maybe not, but VAR AND injuries together probably amount to a lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Budapest Canary said:

Maybe not, but VAR AND injuries together probably amount to a lot.

I don’t understand blaming VAR at all. There’s clearly no conspiracy against the “little clubs” as four of the five teams who have benefitted from VAR the most are those “little clubs” (according to the table linked above). So if there’s no bias, then VAR isn’t really different to any other ref’s decision.
 

The whole point of VAR is to rule out errors made by the refs. So are we saying that what we needed was for refs to incorrectly give decisions in our favour for us to stay up?

Why don’t we do a table of every decision made by a ref all season and say how many have gone for and against us? Because it’s pointless - it’s part of the game and the ref’s decisions usually reflect how a team plays... If we’ve encroached in the box from a penalty, therefore breaking the rules, and then the retaken penalty is scored against us, that’s not VAR’s fault - we shouldn’t be breaking the rules....

Edited by Aggy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 
 
 
 
4 hours ago, Aggy said:

The whole point of VAR is to rule out errors made by the refs. So are we saying that what we needed was for refs to incorrectly give decisions in our favour for us to stay up?

The whole point of VAR was to rule out Clear and Obvious Errors, and offside decisions that take 3 minutes of analysis (and often from the incorrect frame anyway) to judge that a player's armpit is 0.02cm in front of a defenders shoelace is NOT clear and obvious.

As far as I'm concerned (certainly for Pukki's goal against Spurs), the ref and assistant gave the correct decision, but were overruled by VAR because the PL have insisted it checks ALL offside decisions regardless, thereby also criticising the referees/assistants ability to make these calls in the process.

VAR has been awful in the most part, it's slowing the game down, ruining some great football, and in our case - costing us points unnecessarily.

Why are you defending the system when almost everyone else in football is saying it's a bit of a mess at the minute?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Indy_Bones said:

The whole point of VAR was to rule out Clear and Obvious Errors, and offside decisions that take 3 minutes of analysis (and often from the incorrect frame anyway) to judge that a player's armpit is 0.02cm in front of a defenders shoelace is NOT clear and obvious.

As far as I'm concerned (certainly for Pukki's goal against Spurs), the ref and assistant gave the correct decision, but were overruled by VAR because the PL have insisted it checks ALL offside decisions regardless, thereby also criticising the referees/assistants ability to make these calls in the process.

VAR has been awful in the most part, it's slowing the game down, ruining some great football, and in our case - costing us points unnecessarily.

Why are you defending the system when almost everyone else in football is saying it's a bit of a mess at the minute?

Suggest re-reading my posts (and the rest of the thread) and advising where I’ve “defended the system”.

I’ve said that VAR isn’t the reason we’re bottom. That’s not “defending” VAR. 

Edited by Aggy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

The points VAR has cost us leaves us bottom, so yes, it is the reason for at least 8-12 points lost.

Right, so why are Wolves and Shef Utd above us in the actual table, but have been more hard done by VAR? And which of the VAR decisions against us was wrong, other than perhaps the Pukki one? I can’t really think of any... so I’ll repeat, are you saying that we needed to rely on refs making wrong decisions in our favour for us to stay up? Or perhaps you’re saying we are the only club in the division that has had a bad VAR decision against us all season?

And even the Pukki goal, loads of teams have been equally hard done by on he offside shouts, so we can’t cry about that one.

And how on earth has it cost us 8-12 points? Looking at the link in this thread the decisions are:

1) Zouma goal disallowed (in our favour) - cost us nothing.

2) Two penalties against Man Utd - both missed, cost us nothing.

3) Aubameyang penalty retaken because our players failed to follow the rules and encroached - scored the retake. Cost us 2 points (although we re-took the lead afterwards so arguably didn’t cost us).

4)  Shef Utd red card overturned - 2-1 down at the time. 1 point as we might (might) have equalised in the 14 mins after the red.

5) Spurs Pukki goal disallowed - 2 points (although ahead at the time so again arguably should have kept it tighter).

6) Palace goal allowed - 2 points. 
 

So that’s 7 points at most. To be honest, only the Palace one I would say was directly attributable to the result. no guarantee we’d have equalised against ten men. We were still ahead against Spurs, re-took the lead against Arsenal.
 

So 7 points still leaves us..... 19th on goal difference. Of course Villa have lost points as a result of VAR, as have West Ham, as have Bournemouth, as have Watford. So if we add their points back in as well, we might even move from 19th to.... 20th?

Then lets just remember why VAR was introduced - because refs make errors. So even without VAR what’s to guarantee we wouldn’t be even worse off? 
Blaming VAR is the same as blaming the ref. In a one off game, you might have a shout. But over the course of a season, the only fans who blame refs are those who like a whinge and can’t accept reality

Edited by Aggy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to ignore the impact VAR has had on us, that's up to you, but even just 7 more points would put us right in the mix, rather than 6 points behind 19th...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Budapest Canary said:

Maybe not, but VAR AND injuries together probably amount to a lot.

Come on, get real. We all know Delia has been telling the players to lose because she loves the Championship.

Edited by Nuff Said

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×