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Yellow Fever

Red card for VAR ?

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1 minute ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Its supposed to be the most forward part of the body that can play the ball, so hand/arm not included. This is why Twitter is referring to this and other incidents today as 'Armpit Offsides'

Pathetic then. How many goals are scored with armpits!? If there is to be a line drawn then surely it should be from the furthest foot forwards and then give a certain amount of leeway for the forwards as no one wants to see goals ruled out by millimetres. 

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28 minutes ago, Well b back said:
3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Hughton was fair with his comments for both sides - he even said "we" at one point when talking about us.

The whole football world ( including MOD ) other than Hughton because of today now beleive VAR needs to be scrapped and this was clearly not a clear and obvious error and in fact most people beleive Pukki wasn’t even offside, yet he now has 1 Allie you.

You really cannot be serious ? Surely you have only said this to cause an argument ?

?????? I was clearly referring to Hughton's bias one way or the other, which wasn't there because I thought he was fair to both sides. I never mentioned VAR.

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I guess if you're a neutral watching a game on sky it 'adds drama' - and with all the foreign markets for premier league football theres gonna be a lot of neutrals.

But any proper football fan wants that excellent ball from Vrancic and calm finish from Pukki to be a goal.

I wonder how much drama it would add if managers decided to take their side off after 35 minutes following a few bad VAR decisions. If you're going to get cheated out of three points why not just rage quit like weekend league in FIFA?

 

 

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I said when it was first announced that it would be another tool to help the Big Clubs and was shouted down. 

I get no pleasure from saying I told you so and hold my hands up as a conspiracy theorist, that doesn't make me wrong though, does it?

If this had happened to Rashford or Salah it would be on the news for a week and social media would go into meltdown....

..... but we're little old Norwich, we don't contribute much to the Premiership brand in terms of worldwide interest, we don't spend like a Bournemouth or Villa, stimulating revenue, certainly not compared to Spurs or Arsenal. 

We've been relegated before and no one outside Norfolk cares, we won't be missed, like Swansea, Reading, Stoke and eventually Watford and Brighton, we're fodder, to be beaten by the Big Clubs to keep their supporters happy. 

As for VAR, it's just another nail in the coffin of a sport that has become a business, a business increasingly aimed at armchair fans, ignoring the the wishes of those paying to attend an event where vested interests come first. 

I hope we survive, I really do, the money would be very handy, but the Prem is a rubbish product and if we do go down, we can look forward to proper football next season. 

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11 hours ago, Well b back said:

This is a very serious point. If it’s something we start maybe other clubs will join in ?

You guys that fund the flags, could you not organise this ?

@Puntino is your man for that. If there's enough appetite among fans, could we use some of the ACN money to print anti-VAR cards? I know the club itself wouldn't sanction it, but surely there would be nothing stopping volunteers from waiting outside the turnstiles handing them to people as they enter the ground?

If it can't be done officially through ACN, I'd be more than happy to start a crowdfunder independently as a concerned fan.

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The limited number of appeals thing must be the answer. Do not review every goal, each team has 2 appeals per game, one for goals awarded for / against,  one for red card offences. I don’t think Spurs would have even used up an appeal on Pukki’s goal yesterday, there were no on-field protests that I could see.

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1 hour ago, Hairy Canary said:

For those who haven’t followed the link, this is a change.org petition to “VAR put on hold until robust practice and operational procedures have been put in place”. Unfortunately I personally think it would be a mistake to sign this one. What is it actually asking for? Stop VAR but not what should replace it. The FA will just say “we already have robust practice and operational procedures”. If we want to do this properly, it needs to be carefully thought through with water-tight arguments, not thrown together in the heat of the moment.

 

Getting lots of signatures on a petition can demonstrate a public groundswell of unhappiness, but it would be far more effective if it was clear stating the issue(s) and how they should be fixed, for example, with on-field appeals. 

Edited by Nuff Said

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18 minutes ago, Beetley Yellow said:

The limited number of appeals thing must be the answer. Do not review every goal, each team has 2 appeals per game, one for goals awarded for / against,  one for red card offences. I don’t think Spurs would have even used up an appeal on Pukki’s goal yesterday, there were no on-field protests that I could see.

I we had appealed yesterday do you think it would have been overturned? I don’t.

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24 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

@Puntino is your man for that. If there's enough appetite among fans, could we use some of the ACN money to print anti-VAR cards? I know the club itself wouldn't sanction it, but surely there would be nothing stopping volunteers from waiting outside the turnstiles handing them to people as they enter the ground?

If it can't be done officially through ACN, I'd be more than happy to start a crowdfunder independently as a concerned fan.

Quite right with that idea or everyone just turns their back for 1 minute on the next live match. 

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Imo the way forward is to have a ‘cushion of leniency’ in favour of the attacking player that uefa have mentioned for var offsides - be it 10/20/30 cm, whatever seems ‘right’.  It would take out this gross stupidity/bad interpretation of the law, and allow for the fact that we can’t tell the precise moment the ball left the passer’s foot. 

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2 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Quite right with that idea or everyone just turns their back for 1 minute on the next live match. 

That’d be Wednesday- all games are on BT Sport.

Would be great if all ‘concerned’ supporters were able to get together on this one.

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Imo the way forward is to have a ‘cushion of leniency’ in favour of the attacking player that uefa have mentioned for var offsides - be it 10/20/30 cm, whatever seems ‘right’.  It would take out this gross stupidity/bad interpretation of the law, and allow for the fact that we can’t tell the precise moment the ball left the passer’s foot. 

Still grey areas, though. If there's a 10cm 'cushion', they'll still find a way to show that the overlap is 9.9cm or 10.1cm, depending on which outcome they want. It needs to go from offside decisions, period.

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Imo the way forward is to have a ‘cushion of leniency’ in favour of the attacking player that uefa have mentioned for var offsides - be it 10/20/30 cm, whatever seems ‘right’.  It would take out this gross stupidity/bad interpretation of the law, and allow for the fact that we can’t tell the precise moment the ball left the passer’s foot. 

Doesn’t that just shift the error back 10cm? We need clarity, or improvements around the definition of the attackers body. It should logically only apply to parts of the body you can legally score with, but for me, it makes more sense, is clearer to see and easier to assess, if you use the players’ feet as the point you judge.

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3 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’d be Wednesday- all games are on BT Sport.

Would be great if all ‘concerned’ supporters were able to get together on this one.

Not during the game but just prior to kick off. Would create some passion and feeling of injustice and maybe give the players a surge.

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4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Not during the game but just prior to kick off. Would create some passion and feeling of injustice and maybe give the players a surge.

Don’t agree with turning our backs to our players just before kick off. I would like to see it every time var is used

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It’s either

> corruption, or

>incompetence 

 

either way the referees need to be held to account. Pukkis goal was ONSIDE and anyone who doesn’t agree needs immediate psychological help before they hurt themselves or others.

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3 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Don’t agree with turning our backs to our players just before kick off. I would like to see it every time var is used

Just a simple thing to do for the cameras that would get coverage. Might even help the players by getting all fans onside at kick off.

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38 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

I we had appealed yesterday do you think it would have been overturned? I don’t.

The goal was given, Spurs would have had to use up an appeal to contest it and I don’t think they would have done so. VAR-ing every goal is robbing the game of the essence of the sport- the euphoria of your team scoring. Actively seeking a reason to not allow a goal every time one is scored is as ‘anti football’ as it gets.

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Just watched the highlights again three things stand out!

1, Kane looks offside when the ball is played to him, Lewis hand ball.

2, There’s more contact on Lewis by Kane than was on Kane by Zimbo for the penalty, so surely if minimal contact isn’t a foul, it wasn’t a penalty.

3, Amazed just how good Buendia was, I think all the talk he’s been about being robbed, but the lad was MOM by a long way, he made some key tackles and was all over the pitch, his best game in a City shirt this season for me.

Edited by Indy

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2 hours ago, splendidrush said:

I said when it was first announced that it would be another tool to help the Big Clubs and was shouted down. 

I get no pleasure from saying I told you so and hold my hands up as a conspiracy theorist, that doesn't make me wrong though, does it?

If this had happened to Rashford or Salah it would be on the news for a week and social media would go into meltdown....

..... but we're little old Norwich, we don't contribute much to the Premiership brand in terms of worldwide interest, we don't spend like a Bournemouth or Villa, stimulating revenue, certainly not compared to Spurs or Arsenal. 

We've been relegated before and no one outside Norfolk cares, we won't be missed, like Swansea, Reading, Stoke and eventually Watford and Brighton, we're fodder, to be beaten by the Big Clubs to keep their supporters happy. 

As for VAR, it's just another nail in the coffin of a sport that has become a business, a business increasingly aimed at armchair fans, ignoring the the wishes of those paying to attend an event where vested interests come first. 

I hope we survive, I really do, the money would be very handy, but the Prem is a rubbish product and if we do go down, we can look forward to proper football next season. 

I think you might find this time the fact that it is ‘ Little Norwich ‘ is the actual reason why fans from all over the country are beginning to unite as to how bad VAR is. It is noticeable the only clubs fans not sharing the shame of VAR are Man Utd and Liverpool.

Because it happened to ‘ little Norwich ‘ and small Palace and Brighton ( with all due respect but they will know what I mean ) VAR is under the microscope and the blows from yesterday could prove fatal for it.

Cheated from decisions yesterday were not just the clubs involved but all those in the relegation zone ( Southampton gaining a point ) and all those such as Wolves and Chelsea around 4th that saw Spurs given a point.

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I cant believe how much of an incredible f up the FA or whoever is running this has made of VAR.

It could be so simple - each team has 2 reviews which can be used for anything. Ref goes to Stockley Park and if they can't decide within a sensible amount of time or its unclear then the refs decision stands. Or the ref reviews in the screen next to the pitch. 

We've had a couple of shots that have taken deflections but given as goal kicks recently.  Within seconds it was clear on the telly that it went the wrong way so why not have this available to be overturned. 

Football is so depressingly behind other sports in how technology is used and to the ordinary supporter it just seems so illogical. VAR has the potential to improve the game but is being horrendously misused.  In it's current format, get rid.

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It’s so exciting now - what you are watching is nothing like what’s decided in Heathrow 

you could put an outrageous bet on with Bet 365 - like “I bet there’s a goal disallowed in the 43rd minute “ and get odds of 8-1. 

Mans be £800 up !!!! 

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For VAR to work for offside you'd have to have far more accurate technology than they're using at present.

Even then there is never a mathematically precise moment when the ball leaves the striker's foot. You'd have to make an arbitrary decision based on force fields, both gravitational & electromagnetic. In other words there is always a margin of error; no measurement is absolute.

Thus they must allow such a margin of error at the moment. This they will not do, or at least will not admit to. Their position is untenable.

The only question would be: who gets the benefit of said margin, the attacking player or the defender. As far as I'm aware the attacker has always had the benefit of the doubt - if you're level you're onside (again, the concept of 'level' implies an associated margin of error) & I am not aware of its having been altered since VAR was introduced. They're breaking their own rules.

 

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I haven't been able to post on here since the game because I just felt sick to the stomach. We all know that refs make mistakes and are influenced by outside pressures but this is a whole new level of unfairness. How our players managed to put it behind them and play as well as they did I don't know, much stronger mentally than I am for certain.

Teams who look to play defence splitting passes for an attacker to time his run through onto goal will be much more disadvantaged than teams who look to get it wide and cross into the box. It's not a surprise that of the big teams Man City are getting the sheeti end of the stick. We unfortunately are going to get more of this cr@p.

 

Edited by Hairy Canary

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1 hour ago, ron obvious said:

For VAR to work for offside you'd have to have far more accurate technology than they're using at present.

Even then there is never a mathematically precise moment when the ball leaves the striker's foot. You'd have to make an arbitrary decision based on force fields, both gravitational & electromagnetic. In other words there is always a margin of error; no measurement is absolute.

Thus they must allow such a margin of error at the moment. This they will not do, or at least will not admit to. Their position is untenable.

The only question would be: who gets the benefit of said margin, the attacking player or the defender. As far as I'm aware the attacker has always had the benefit of the doubt - if you're level you're onside (again, the concept of 'level' implies an associated margin of error) & I am not aware of its having been altered since VAR was introduced. They're breaking their own rules.

 

Given that two camera were needed to see both Pukki and Vrancic's pass... and unless they were both synchronized I'd bet on at least a 20ms margin of error or not more between them (we can argue as to frame rate). What was the exposure time too? This may be beyond the ken of the VAR rule makers. 

I'd suggest level is at least 6 inches either way and VAR doent even get involved unless it exceeds this.

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I don't often get angry at the football, but this was so unjust that even 24 hours later, it is still just as raw. The injustice of it is so complete and so important in the scheme of things. If that goal had stood as it should, we may have gone on to score a third with Tottenham not really matching us for work rate or pressing like they needed to. a win would have given us two more precious points.

If there was ever a case for replaying a game, this was it. The VAR officials blatantly crossed out a good goal, in cold blood.

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It’s going to end up in court, I guarantee it.

 

theres millions of pounds at stake. People’s jobs. Enjoy a class action lawsuit and a full investigation into financial corruption amongst the referees.

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