Making Plans 936 Posted December 28, 2019 Chris Kavanagh - the man in charge of VAR today. Chris Kavanagh became a Select Group 1 referee for the 2017/18 season after working his way up the football pyramid. The Manchester-born referee started officiating in 1998 as a 13-year-old, plying his trade in local football, before being promoted to take charge of matches in the National League in 2012. Kavanagh refereed in the Football League regularly from the 2014/15 season and in 2016/17 he was the man in the middle on 27 occassions for the EFL Championship campaign. Prior to his promotion to Select Group 1 status, Kavanagh made his Premier League debut in April 2017 as West Bromwich Albion lost to Southampton 1-0 at The Hawthorns, while he has been fourth official in the top flight on a number of occasions. Kavanagh was also the fourth official for the League One Play-off Final between Scunthorpe United and Millwall at Wembley at the end of the 2016/17 season. What an arseole Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,405 Posted December 28, 2019 Cricket sorts it with "umpire's call." I thought that it was supposed to be this way with VAR - weren't we told "clear and obvious mistake?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harry53 209 Posted December 28, 2019 11 minutes ago, Making Plans said: Chris Kavanagh - the man in charge of VAR today. Chris Kavanagh became a Select Group 1 referee for the 2017/18 season after working his way up the football pyramid. The Manchester-born referee started officiating in 1998 as a 13-year-old, plying his trade in local football, before being promoted to take charge of matches in the National League in 2012. Kavanagh refereed in the Football League regularly from the 2014/15 season and in 2016/17 he was the man in the middle on 27 occassions for the EFL Championship campaign. Prior to his promotion to Select Group 1 status, Kavanagh made his Premier League debut in April 2017 as West Bromwich Albion lost to Southampton 1-0 at The Hawthorns, while he has been fourth official in the top flight on a number of occasions. Kavanagh was also the fourth official for the League One Play-off Final between Scunthorpe United and Millwall at Wembley at the end of the 2016/17 season. What an arseole Shame on him. He should be struck off as a  referee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kick it off 1,948 Posted December 28, 2019 44 minutes ago, sonyc said: Only Hughton defending the decision. Someone who is perhaps bitter methinks He's also Spurs through and through to be fair 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted December 28, 2019 Hughton was fair with his comments for both sides - he even said "we" at one point when talking about us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 936 Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, lake district canary said: Hughton was fair with his comments for both sides - he even said "we" at one point when talking about us. Nobody can "be fair" if they thought it was offside. Nobody. LDC, instead of sticking up for everyone all the time why not, just once in a while, be bloody critical of someone Edited December 28, 2019 by Making Plans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,657 Posted December 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, lake district canary said: Hughton was fair with his comments for both sides - he even said "we" at one point when talking about us. What did he say? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted December 28, 2019 Just now, hogesar said: What did he say? I can't remember the wording and can't watch it again, if anyone else has recorded it, they could tell you. It was in connection with some of our bad luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted December 28, 2019 From what I recall of Hughton's comments, he simply said that when you introduce a system like VAR, you have to accept the decisions it makes, and if VAR says it was offside, then it was offside, it doesn't matter if the pundits, fans, commentators or even match officials don't think it was, VAR has spoken, and that's the risk you run with having it in place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 936 Posted December 28, 2019 Just now, Indy_Bones said: From what I recall of Hughton's comments, he simply said that when you introduce a system like VAR, you have to accept the decisions it makes, and if VAR says it was offside, then it was offside, it doesn't matter if the pundits, fans, commentators or even match officials don't think it was, VAR has spoken, and that's the risk you run with having it in place. But that's just ****. Jesus, if he, as an ex player/manager thinks like that then it's time to chuck it in the bin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted December 28, 2019 I don't disagree with the sentiment MP, but that IS the decision the FA and Premier League have made in the way VAR is being used. I personally thought it was only meant to check clear and obvious errors, yet when the players on the pitch, match officials and fans in the ground have no objection to a goal, yet VAR overrules all of that, then we do have to question its usage and implementation IMHO. Hughton could be braver in saying that although that is the system, in this instance it's clearly not good for the game and that the League really needs to look at this sort of thing more, but I guess he's scared of saying anything that may be deemed too controversial so he can get another managerial job, or keep doing punditry. One thing that could always be said of the guy was he was very diplomatic and rarely criticised others clubs, referees or players, so it's not like he's saying anything out of character with his comments ref the offside today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 312 Posted December 28, 2019 24 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said: And I do not understand why people in the game talk about Cricket to justify VAR. In Cricket, it is only used when a team appeals the umpire's decision. I can see the merit in Clubs getting two appeals per game and if they are correct they don't lose it and still have two left, or one as the case may be. And it is similar in the NFL. But in the NFL, the onfield umpire decides. The man who is controlling the game. I agree, there should be one man making decisions, the ref. I think each head coach/manager should have two challenges per game, forfeiting a substitution if you fail in your challenge. If a manager does not challenge, VAR does not look at it. Â Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kick it off 1,948 Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said: I agree, there should be one man making decisions, the ref. I think each head coach/manager should have two challenges per game, forfeiting a substitution if you fail in your challenge. If a manager does not challenge, VAR does not look at it. NFL has it right. Ref can go to the sideline any time he likes. Coaches get 2 challenges for rulings on the field. If the video has no clear evidence to overturn it then the ruling on the field stands as called. They also have all scoring plays reviewed as otherwise the coaches would just challenge every goal, but again it should be the ref making that decision and only overturning it if the video has clear and indisputable evidence that it shouldn't stand. All penalties also subject to review. That would literally solve every single issue with VAR Edited December 28, 2019 by kick it off 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 312 Posted December 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, kick it off said: NFL has it right. Ref can go to the sideline any time he likes. Coaches get 2 challenges for rulings on the field. If the video has no clear evidence to overturn it then the ruling on the field stands as called. They also have all scoring plays reviewed as otherwise the coaches would just challenge every goal, but again it should be the ref making that decision and only overturning it if the video has clear and indisputable evidence that it shouldn't stand. All penalties also subject to review. That would literally solve every single issue with VAR I'm not a fan of reviewing every goal. Especially on today's evidence. Pukki was a yard on side, but the goal was ruled out because it was automatically reviewed by a cheat. Â Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 312 Posted December 28, 2019 Plus it takes away from the euphoria of the moment. Â Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kick it off 1,948 Posted December 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said: I'm not a fan of reviewing every goal. Especially on today's evidence. Pukki was a yard on side, but the goal was ruled out because it was automatically reviewed by a cheat. But coaches will just challenge every goal regardless if you don't put that in. The ref on the pitch reviewing that goal without misleading lines, just the photo, does not change his mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,081 Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry53 said: Level.  Oceania was at war with EastAsia. Oceania has always been at war with EastAsia. There are 5 fingers. Why do you persist with saying there are 4?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 312 Posted December 28, 2019 Not if they have the potential to loose a substitution. There needs to be a penalty for frivolous challenges.   1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,081 Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Harry53 said: Level.  Oceania was at war with EastAsia. Oceania has always been at war with EastAsia. There are 5 fingers. Why do you persist with saying there are 4?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iwans Big Toe 312 Posted December 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:  Oceania was at war with EastAsia. Oceania has always been at war with EastAsia. There are 5 fingers. Why do you persist with saying there are 4?  The off side rule was introduced in 1863 to stop goal hanging. I have to ask, can any ref prove Pukki is goal hanging when the defender has a yard head start?    Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,081 Posted December 28, 2019 15 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said: Plus it takes away from the euphoria of the moment. Â Â Â Absolutely. Its a massive kick in the teeth and changes the entire mood of the game. Krul's penalty save and Pukki's goal. Without VAR we'd have beaten both Spurs and Arsenal this season. We'd still be bottom but we and the players deserve our moments of glory Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted December 28, 2019 The defenders hand looks to be further forwards than his knee, why has the line been drawn from the knee if his hand is the furthest part of his body? In fact why the **** are we even having to debate this farcical ****? For every season in football history up until this one that’s a perfectly legal and fantastic goal 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,199 Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said: I actually think all premier league fans should bring large red cards with a two finger V on it to be held aloft just before KO. This is a very serious point. If it’s something we start maybe other clubs will join in ? You guys that fund the flags, could you not organise this ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Foxy2600 300 Posted December 28, 2019 EFL will consider 2020/2021 Season VAR if the teams want it - i.e. too many crap decisions from the ‘professionals’ currently tasked with the job. As an ex player, Lino and County ref. Level is on. Having some remote observer with access to computer generated ‘lines’ just sucks the life out of the game (to misquote Chris Wilder ) especially as all it is [is] another ‘opinion’ . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hairy Canary 696 Posted December 28, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Well b back said: This is a very serious point. If it’s something we start maybe other clubs will join in ? You guys that fund the flags, could you not organise this ? Agreed. Is it possible to organise one of those Parliament Petitions where the subject has to be debated in Parliament if enough people sign the petition. I don't know a single football supporter who attends games who is for it. Edited December 28, 2019 by Hairy Canary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,657 Posted December 28, 2019 I guess if you're a neutral watching a game on sky it 'adds drama' - and with all the foreign markets for premier league football theres gonna be a lot of neutrals. But any proper football fan wants that excellent ball from Vrancic and calm finish from Pukki to be a goal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,081 Posted December 28, 2019 Still, look on the bright side. I bet Ipswich fans would love to be bemoaning VAR decisions right now, rather than stood outside, nose pressed against the glass, pretending they were there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,081 Posted December 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, hogesar said: I guess if you're a neutral watching a game on sky it 'adds drama' - and with all the foreign markets for premier league football theres gonna be a lot of neutrals. But any proper football fan wants that excellent ball from Vrancic and calm finish from Pukki to be a goal. Id give that a thumbs up if I could have any more reactions on this forum today Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Well b back 3,199 Posted December 28, 2019 2 hours ago, lake district canary said: Hughton was fair with his comments for both sides - he even said "we" at one point when talking about us. The whole football world ( including MOD ) other than Hughton because of today now beleive VAR needs to be scrapped and this was clearly not a clear and obvious error and in fact most people beleive Pukki wasn’t even offside, yet he now has 1 Allie you. You really cannot be serious ? Surely you have only said this to cause an argument ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Great Mass Debater 1,081 Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, JF said: The defenders hand looks to be further forwards than his knee, why has the line been drawn from the knee if his hand is the furthest part of his body? In fact why the **** are we even having to debate this farcical ****? For every season in football history up until this one that’s a perfectly legal and fantastic goal Its supposed to be the most forward part of the body that can play the ball, so hand/arm not included. This is why Twitter is referring to this and other incidents today as 'Armpit Offsides' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites