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At least we will be a rich championship club

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5 minutes ago, JF said:

Was the signing of James Maddison risking the club’s future? How about Emi, Godfrey and Pukki. I’m amazed people with these opinions ever moved on from their first love, once bitten twice shy...

No, not at all. Those were great signings with tangible future sell-on value. And we've already signed a few youngsters in the mould of Godfrey and Maddison - all the top six clubs were sniffing around Daniel Adshead, for example. I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't sign anyone, it's just making sure that the money we DO invest is in players whose value will increase (like Maddison) rather than decrease (like Naismith).

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10 minutes ago, JF said:

Was the signing of James Maddison risking the club’s future? How about Emi, Godfrey and Pukki. I’m amazed people with these opinions ever moved on from their first love, once bitten twice shy...

Now you really are clutching at straws,   no one that I can remember  has ever said we shouldn't have or shouldn't in future invest in  players that would be very daft indeed.  Smart investment is what we are looking for and as soon as correct targets are identified  I'm quite sure we'll do our best to secure them. For our Info, any chance you could name these ' people ' who you claim haven't moved on from their first  love etc as that statement left me rather confused as to your point

 

Edited by wcorkcanary

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7 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

To answer your question ref  the point of us reaching  the PL..... we have , in one season completely  stabilised the club financially.  The destination we are aiming for is improvement year on year, from a sound financial base. That's it. Finito.  

 

 

7 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

To answer your question ref  the point of us reaching  the PL..... we have , in one season completely  stabilised the club financially.  The destination we are aiming for is improvement year on year, from a sound financial base. That's it. Finito.  

Which is the point I made earlier that for some reason Herman took offence to. That the club decided to take the money and run. I’ve no complaints with that, it’s the sensible thing to do but there was some middle ground in between that could have helped Farke

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1 minute ago, JF said:

 

 

Which is the point I made earlier that for some reason Herman took offence to. That the club decided to take the money and run. I’ve no complaints with that, it’s the sensible thing to do but there was some middle ground in between that could have helped Farke

Using words like take the money and run is disingenuous  at best, no one has run anywhere with any money. They have have invested  in all areas of the Club, including  the first team, not much there I agree  but then I'm not privvy to decisions made at boardroom  level as to where we drew the line on acquisitions,  I suspect the line is fluid depending  on many factors such as age,length of contract ,playing position , possible improvement and sell on value etc of the target.  I fear you are looking  for a simple answer to a complicated  problem,......there isn't one.

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32 minutes ago, JF said:

signing footballers for a football club is now gambling our future...

No - it is part of normal trading activity.

Going into debt is gambling with your future, especially as the players you buy are inherently going to be risky purchases and as we have seen not necessarily improve the first team. 

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22 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Using words like take the money and run is disingenuous  at best, no one has run anywhere with any money. They have have invested  in all areas of the Club, including  the first team, not much there I agree  but then I'm not privvy to decisions made at boardroom  level as to where we drew the line on acquisitions,  I suspect the line is fluid depending  on many factors such as age,length of contract ,playing position , possible improvement and sell on value etc of the target.  I fear you are looking  for a simple answer to a complicated  problem,......there isn't one.

Thank you.👍

Take the money and run sounds like someone dubious has defrauded the club.

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1 minute ago, Herman said:

Thank you.👍

Take the money and run sounds like someone dubious has defrauded the club.

Its exactly the kind of unfounded lies that somehow manage to  find a home in some people's  heads . It sounds  great so therefore must be true? I dont get it, personally. I'll  leave the inflammatory fake news to Boris and Donald.....and anyone else who feels comfortable with that company. 

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2 hours ago, Badger said:

The problem is that the playing right is not really capital in the accepted way - they are employees and a cost used to generate revenue.

A player's value is time-limited and very volatile and may be seen as a liability rather than a capital asset. RVW, Jarvis and Naismith should have taught you that but it does not appear to have done so.

The capital I’m referring to is ‘capital’ put into a company by its shareholders for further investment, specifically releasing cash for player investment.

Like any business you need to make capital investment to generate revenues, whether it’s machines in manufacturing or properties in property development projects as an example. Obviously there is always an associate maintenance cost (wages for players) and an inherent risk involved.

 Players registrations are an asset on the balance sheet (refer note 13 Intangible Assets) therefore are also capital in nature. From an accounting perspective they are never a liability, but on disposal can result in a loss on the statement of comprehensive income ‘SOCI’! (or if the self funding model works we hope to see plenty of ‘profits on disposable’ on the SOCI)

Agreed the players value is time limit which is why the cost of players circa £42m, is amortised circa £27m leaving a NBV of circa £14m (also refer note 13)

It could be argued that I know little about football and rightfully so, but as a qualified accountant I know a little on this subject.

 I agree the Jarvis and Naismith transfers were disastrous and bad capital investments, but the reaction to this to not invest at all is equally disastrous as we are now witnessing!

Its like a manufacturing company not investment in new technology to produce more sophisticated products, when all it’s competitors are, leaving it unable to compete!

Anyway just to be clear, I am not and have never advocated that the club under it’s current ownership and model go out and recklessly spend millions potentially risking the financial future of the club.

What I’m encouraging is a change of ownership where there is shareholder support which allows for capital expenditure to compete at the highest level, where there is enough capital reserves to suffer losses on bad investments (let’s remember folks we’re talking about Naismith and Jarvis here, not Ronaldo and Naymar on mega mega bucks), where a young progressive manager and sporting director are given the funds, tools and opportunity to fulfil their potential, is that too much to ask?

Yes it is whilst DS & MWJ maintain their tight stranglehold of the club !  

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5 hours ago, hogesar said:

He left Huddersfield on the cusp of Promotion. I'm not sure he left when it 'got tough'. 

Yep, they did very well with the legacy he left behind!!

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1 minute ago, City 2nd said:

Yep, they did very well with the legacy he left behind!!

I presume your point is that when Webber left, the next incumbent didn't have the same level of executive skill and therefore the club took a nose-dive? Glad you're on board for once, anyway.

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5 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

What a complete load of tosh. He has some control over what we do with what have , none at all over how much is available, that is taken care of by accountants who will say how much is available once we have budgeted for all considerations.

It’s not tosh at all. Actually try reading what is written!. Does it actually state he has anything to do with what is available? It states he has full control of what is made available, which he does.

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1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Its exactly the kind of unfounded lies that somehow manage to  find a home in some people's  heads . It sounds  great so therefore must be true? I dont get it, personally. I'll  leave the inflammatory fake news to Boris and Donald.....and anyone else who feels comfortable with that company. 

Just a way of phrasing it. The club has taken the money and ran doesn’t sound like that at all. It’s just your agenda to make it that way. The club has decided to take the PL money and run so why dress it up any other way. Good for them but if you want to go round in circles trying to make an agenda with the wording of it I’ll leave that to you . Now where’s that block button...

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

I presume your point is that when Webber left, the next incumbent didn't have the same level of executive skill and therefore the club took a nose-dive? Glad you're on board for once, anyway.

I’m absolutely on board. Yes they did nose dive, and yes he did leave. We have very unfortunately nose dived too! Of his own making, Webber will be leaving. When he does, likely Farke will too, and we will be back where we started!

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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

A good coach yes. On the evidence of this season though not a managerial genius. His performance has been disappointing for me although he’s had one hand tied behind his back. 

Be fair JF, both hands.

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1 minute ago, City 2nd said:

I’m absolutely on board. Yes they did nose dive, and yes he did leave. We have very unfortunately nose dived too! Of his own making, Webber will be leaving. When he does, likely Farke will too, and we will be back where we started!

We were still in the Premier League, debt-free, with tons of saleable assets last time I checked. Of course we're very likely to go down, but we'll be in a much, much better position than where we started. Just check the club's accounts for proof of that.

I'm also concerned about what might happen when Webber and/or Farke leave, but why worry about a future that hasn't happened yet? If we lost both of them at the same time I'd be concerned, but as long as there's a year or so of overlap to pass the philosophy on to the next owner, I think we'll continue to be in a relatively healthy position, even in the Championship. So many clubs in that division are flirting with financial ruin and FFP rules, and we'll be well-positioned to avoid that boom-and-bust mentality.

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1 minute ago, JF said:

Just a way of phrasing it. The club has taken the money and ran doesn’t sound like that at all. It’s just your agenda to make it that way. The club has decided to take the PL money and run so why dress it up any other way. Good for them but if you want to go round in circles trying to make an agenda with the wording of it I’ll leave that to you . Now where’s that block button...

Joining the ' feeling silly  for saying unfounded,outrageous things so I'm going to block anyone who points out how untrue I have  been' brigade then JF. Might as well stick your fingers in your ears like my seven  year old grandson used to do when he,was told anything that he didnt like. Unsubstantiated hyperbole nearly always makes a poster look a bit silly. It must be your turn today.

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

Joining the ' feeling silly  for saying unfounded,outrageous things so I'm going to block anyone who points out how untrue I have  been' brigade then JF. Might as well stick your fingers in your ears like my seven  year old grandson used to do when he,was told anything that he didnt like. Unsubstantiated hyperbole nearly always makes a poster look a bit silly. It must be your turn today.

Why should I ‘feel silly’ for saying the club have taken the money and ran? They have. I’ve never blocked anyone on here but you will be the first and probably last. As I said earlier your posts are becoming more and more like Bills, maybe in his absence you’ve sensed an opening? I’ve no time for posters that are arrogant, obnoxious and look into wordings to create an agenda that wasn’t originally there. Obviously others have also blocked you, I can’t say I’m particularly surprised by that...

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Just now, JF said:

Why should I ‘feel silly’ for saying the club have taken the money and ran? They have. I’ve never blocked anyone on here but you will be the first and probably last. As I said earlier your posts are becoming more and more like Bills, maybe in his absence you’ve sensed an opening? I’ve no time for posters that are arrogant, obnoxious and look into wordings to create an agenda that wasn’t originally there. Obviously others have also blocked you, I can’t say I’m particularly surprised by that...

It may have escaped your notice,but words have meanings,when put together to form a sentence ,the meaning of that sentence can be clarified by the context in which those words are used. There was nothing subtle,hidden, or for that matter ambivalent in what you wrote, it was simply incorrect. Too bad that you cannot grasp this. Happy to be blocked by you or any other poster that spews such untruths. 

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14 minutes ago, JF said:

Why should I ‘feel silly’ for saying the club have taken the money and ran? They have. I’ve never blocked anyone on here but you will be the first and probably last. As I said earlier your posts are becoming more and more like Bills, maybe in his absence you’ve sensed an opening? I’ve no time for posters that are arrogant, obnoxious and look into wordings to create an agenda that wasn’t originally there. Obviously others have also blocked you, I can’t say I’m particularly surprised by that...

I think the issue here is that saying 'taken the money and ran' implies that the people owning/running the club have somehow siphoned some of the PL money out of the club and used it for something other than furthering the club's best interests. That's how I interpreted it, anyway, and I don't think you can (or should) dress that up as fact. 'Running' sounds to me like you're accusing them of running away with the money.

If I've misinterpreted what you mean, could you clarify please? If you mean 'failed to invest a sufficient amount of the PL money in improving our playing squad', then that's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint (and one I agree with, for what it's worth).

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think the issue here is that saying 'taken the money and ran' implies that the people owning/running the club have somehow siphoned some of the PL money out of the club and used it for something other than furthering the club's best interests. That's how I interpreted it, anyway, and I don't think you can (or should) dress that up as fact. 'Running' sounds to me like you're accusing them of running away with the money.

If I've misinterpreted what you mean, could you clarify please? If you mean 'failed to invest a sufficient amount of the PL money in improving our playing squad', then that's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint (and one I agree with, for what it's worth).

Not at all. Not once have I implied that anyone has taken any money out of the club. As I’ve said we’ve got the riches of the PL and decided to go with what we have and take the money, rather than go another route and **** it up the wall and still get relegated. It’s a fairly wise strategy and again not once have I criticised the club for it, I’ve just suggested that maybe there was some middle ground to be found where we kept a lot of the riches in the club but stretched the budget a bit further to help Farke. If people want to create an agenda based on the phrasing that wasn’t there it’s up to them. The club has the best part of £200 million coming in through this season and parachute payments and has invested 750k of that on first team assets ( not loans as not assets ) at no point was the phrasing take the money and run intended to suggest of any dodgy activities, it’s just how I see it

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7 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think the issue here is that saying 'taken the money and ran' implies that the people owning/running the club have somehow siphoned some of the PL money out of the club and used it for something other than furthering the club's best interests. That's how I interpreted it, anyway, and I don't think you can (or should) dress that up as fact. 'Running' sounds to me like you're accusing them of running away with the money.

If I've misinterpreted what you mean, could you clarify please? If you mean 'failed to invest a sufficient amount of the PL money in improving our playing squad', then that's a perfectly reasonable viewpoint (and one I agree with, for what it's worth).

You are very benevolent Wolfo, JF has had plenty of chances to clarify what he meant. Instead he took the insult and block route. I thought a message board was about posting ideas,thoughts and opinions, sometimes having them challenged and responding to those challenges by clarification and discussion. Obviously not.

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1 minute ago, JF said:

Not at all. Not once have I implied that anyone has taken any money out of the club. As I’ve said we’ve got the riches of the PL and decided to go with what we have and take the money, rather than go another route and **** it up the wall and still get relegated. It’s a fairly wise strategy and again not once have I criticised the club for it, I’ve just suggested that maybe there was some middle ground to be found where we kept a lot of the riches in the club but stretched the budget a bit further to help Farke. If people want to create an agenda based on the phrasing that wasn’t there it’s up to them. The club has the best part of £200 million coming in through this season and parachute payments and has invested 750k of that on first team assets ( not loans as not assets ) at no point was the phrasing take the money and run intended to suggest of any dodgy activities, it’s just how I see it

Thanks for the clarification, I do think it was needed. Everything you've said there is perfectly reasonable. I think we need to look at this season in its entirety (including the following summer window when we know what division we'll be in) before we can judge exactly how the club is intending to use all that money.

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3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

You are very benevolent Wolfo, JF has had plenty of chances to clarify what he meant. Instead he took the insult and block route. I thought a message board was about posting ideas,thoughts and opinions, sometimes having them challenged and responding to those challenges by clarification and discussion. Obviously not.

Well I've just asked him to clarify something in a perfectly reasonable tone of voice, and he's clarified it. Now we have clarity, all is good in the hood.

You've encouraged me to back down in the past when I've been getting a bit aggressive with my posting, and I would encourage you to do the same... you're one of my favourite posters on here but you have been getting a bit bolshy recently. I've made a concerted effort to try and stop getting into ugly scraps on here, and I'm enjoying myself a lot more.

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All he had to say was, yep my words were the wrong ones for what I was trying to convey. JFs later explanations are reasonable enough, but don't really tie in with taking the money and running. Typing this in the hope that someone will quote me  so he can see it, if in fact hes blocked me yet. Peace.

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6 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

All he had to say was, yep my words were the wrong ones for what I was trying to convey. JFs later explanations are reasonable enough, but don't really tie in with taking the money and running. Typing this in the hope that someone will quote me  so he can see it, if in fact hes blocked me yet. Peace.

Here you go @JF, let's forget that ever happened and move on. We're all City fans here.

Incidentally I'm really bored today, so if anyone else requires any 'agony uncle' conciliation services, just give me a shout.

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3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Well I've just asked him to clarify something in a perfectly reasonable tone of voice, and he's clarified it. Now we have clarity, all is good in the hood.

You've encouraged me to back down in the past when I've been getting a bit aggressive with my posting, and I would encourage you to do the same... you're one of my favourite posters on here but you have been getting a bit bolshy recently. I've made a concerted effort to try and stop getting into ugly scraps on here, and I'm enjoying myself a lot more.

Wolfo, I get bolshy when faced with unsubstantiated 'facts', non existent 'quotes' and unfounded innuendo bordering on accusation........other than that I'm a fairly chilled guy. I tend to take the Mickey rather than directly insult and I suppose that may enrage some more than others. Like yourself I'll stand my ground over something I believe to be true ,or untrue for that matter. Cheers anyway and im glad your less confrontational approach has pulled the meaning behind the words that incensed me, out.

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We are the new model pioneers of self-funding in the top-flight of Professional Football......Other Premiership Clubs must be staring at us with emerald envy......albeit, they're staring down at us......

 

 

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2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Wolfo, I get bolshy when faced with unsubstantiated 'facts', non existent 'quotes' and unfounded innuendo bordering on accusation........other than that I'm a fairly chilled guy. I tend to take the Mickey rather than directly insult and I suppose that may enrage some more than others. Like yourself I'll stand my ground over something I believe to be true ,or untrue for that matter. Cheers anyway and im glad your less confrontational approach has pulled the meaning behind the words that incensed me, out.

I think my posting style is generally pretty similar, and I don't mind calling out trolls and bullsh*tters for what they are. I just think at the moment, posters on here are generally pretty understanding of our plight, and there's been a lot of 'agreeing to disagree' on here. I think that's kind of appropriate for the way our club is at the moment.

Once the doom-mongers start coming out in force and pouring out endless vitriol on here, I'll roll my sleeves up and turn into a fully fledged KTF arsehole. Until then, I'll conserve my blood pressure and look for common ground rather than trench warfare.

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1 minute ago, Mello Yello said:

We are the new model pioneers of self-funding in the top-flight of Professional Football......Other Premiership Clubs must be staring at us with emerald envy......albeit, they're staring down at us......

 

 

But not for many more seasons. This shoite takes time. Built wasnt day in a Rome.

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2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

But not for many more seasons. This shoite takes time. Built wasnt day in a Rome.

If you're Irish.....I'm a Geordie.....

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