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Hucks6

At least we will be a rich championship club

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There is no guarantee that the stowmarket duo would spend the money wisely

what I would like to see is a fan on the board to hold them to account I would recommend the following as examples

Robin Sainty - heads up the canary trust. Knows nothing about football but would ensure the ground is well stocked with woman’s sanitary wears

LDC - would agree with everything that the board would say

Fenway Frank - again knows nothing about football but would ensure the shelves in the kiosks would be fully stocked

Jobsworth Canary - the only one I can see that would keep the boards feet to the floor and ensure they make the right decisions 

so I call on you all to support me becoming Independent director for ncfc 

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31 minutes ago, Herman said:

That's not true in the slightest. Where has this ridiculous "taken the money and run" nonsense come from. For starters we don't get a lump sum on promotion, we'd have to risk borrowing the money on future income, which could work or fail badly and lead us to exactly the same position.

We have invested in future prospects, but future being the operative word.

We could invest £5-8 million on 3 players. and I am sure they are looking for gems, but it's not that simple. We could've got 3 Patrick Roberts for instance.

Delia has not got a handbag full of used £50 notes. She is not a Mobuto type dictator building castles in the jungles of Suffolk.

A lot of income will still be going on wages so for that we do have to be financially sensible.

Yes, the results are extremely frustrating but stop making up nonsense.

Hardly nonsense is it. How else can it be described? Transfer fees and wages are also not paid out straight away either. We have a minimum of £100 million coming in this season and then two years parachute payments. If we can’t afford to spend £5 million on three players with that guaranteed future income over the next three seasons then there is no point in us aspiring to reach this level, and the so called model is flawed and will eventually fail. How about trying to look at signings as investments and essentials in the football world. It’s like some weird cult with some fans, we’ve made a few poor signings in the past so now we can’t sign any players worth any money in the future for fear of a repeat. I’d like to think that Webber and Farkes track record for signings deserves more respect than that but obviously not.
No, quite simply there is no other explanation than we’ve decided to take the money and hope we had enough to get through.

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This thread is ridiculous except for a couple of sane voices.

At the beginning of the season I was confident that this team had enough about them to survive and comfortably and actually thought we didn’t need to spend loads and that the strategy we were implementing was the correct one. I know that now looks unlikely, but I think a lot of that is down to misfortune with injuries and not getting results the performances deserves.

I still think the strategy was correct. Nearly every player signed a new deal, which would have given them bigger wages and I imagine hefty one off signing on fees. SW has alluded to this.

We also went out and bought some very exciting youngsters. Adshead was being chased by every club in the top 6 and Fitzpatrick is considered to be an outstanding talent. We have also tied down Famewo and Idah, both of whom I imagine will be playing a big part within the next 12 months.

I think we would have spent £10m odd if the right players were available, but there’s no point just spending it for the sake of it. That’s how we got stuck with Naismith. We were also rumoured to have had a £15m bid accepted on deadline day for the French winger whose name escapes me, but he turned us down.

The club have been open about the strategy and after last season SW and DF have my complete trust. They should have yours as well. This isn’t a short term project, it’s a long term project and even if it doesn’t work, we'll all still be Norwich fans, because if we wanted to watch a team win every week we would have gone and supported Man City or Liverpool by now. OTBC.

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4 minutes ago, Willmeister said:

This thread is ridiculous except for a couple of sane voices.

At the beginning of the season I was confident that this team had enough about them to survive and comfortably and actually thought we didn’t need to spend loads and that the strategy we were implementing was the correct one. I know that now looks unlikely, but I think a lot of that is down to misfortune with injuries and not getting results the performances deserves.

I still think the strategy was correct. Nearly every player signed a new deal, which would have given them bigger wages and I imagine hefty one off signing on fees. SW has alluded to this.

We also went out and bought some very exciting youngsters. Adshead was being chased by every club in the top 6 and Fitzpatrick is considered to be an outstanding talent. We have also tied down Famewo and Idah, both of whom I imagine will be playing a big part within the next 12 months.

I think we would have spent £10m odd if the right players were available, but there’s no point just spending it for the sake of it. That’s how we got stuck with Naismith. We were also rumoured to have had a £15m bid accepted on deadline day for the French winger whose name escapes me, but he turned us down.

The club have been open about the strategy and after last season SW and DF have my complete trust. They should have yours as well. This isn’t a short term project, it’s a long term project and even if it doesn’t work, we'll all still be Norwich fans, because if we wanted to watch a team win every week we would have gone and supported Man City or Liverpool by now. OTBC.

Webber and Farke do have my trust. I think given a remotely competitive budget they could have had us comfortably mid Table.

All the talk of a long term project is fine but going down likely means selling our best young players and for lower prices than if we stayed up. I think far too many underestimate just how much had to go right last season and how difficult it will be to replicate.

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If a bigger club wanted our players then they will leave even if we had of comfortably stayed up. I imagine that Sheffield United will have a lot of suitors for their players and if they survive comfortably as it looks like they will there won’t be much they can do.

All our players are on long term deals. We hold the cards. I think we all know that most of this playing squad will not be here for the remainder of their careers, as like Maddison they will eventually outgrow us. That is the same for pretty much every club bar maybe 3 or 4.

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1 hour ago, City 2nd said:

Stuart Webber has total control over the amount of capital invested in the playing squad. What a very nieve comment to make.

He controls the scouting system, he searches out players with those scouts, he states what we are going to pay for a player, he negotiates contracts, he negotiates the selling of players, he states who will be leaving if they are past their sell by date!

he is the director of football, he hires and fires. Farke is merely a coach!

he will jog on when it gets tough, as he did at Huddersfield and just as his predecessors have done.  That is football.

Yes! But he has to be given the capital to investment first! Capital which needs to be released by the majority shareholders!

as is common knowledge, due to the self funded model and majority shareholders who are unable to invest personal capital into the club, minimal capital was available to invest in the playing squad, why the embarrassing amount of <£5m was invested in the summer!

Therefore my point is not naive and stands true!

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50 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I would imagine that the board collectively agree on the transfer budget, with the majority shareholders having the casting vote. I'd imagine the accountants present their findings to the board, who then decide what is invested where. This would also include any improvements to the academy/training facilities, plus any potential war chest for planned stadium upgrades, as well as player transfers.

Much better put than I did Wolfo, I've kind of lost patience with explaining over and over, to put it mildly, to those who canot grasp how the Club is now run. 

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16 hours ago, Cliff the Canary said:

I’m sorry! Does Stuart Webber have any control over the amount of capital invested in the playing squad?

The problem is that the playing right is not really capital in the accepted way - they are employees and a cost used to generate revenue.

A player's value is time-limited and very volatile and may be seen as a liability rather than a capital asset. RVW, Jarvis and Naismith should have taught you that but it does not appear to have done so.

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28 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Much better put than I did Wolfo, I've kind of lost patience with explaining over and over, to put it mildly, to those who canot grasp how the Club is now run. 

Touché, Corko.

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People appear to have forgotten how players agents work too, as said above no point pissing money away again on players who aren’t interested in Norwich, Jarvis, Naismith come to mind.

No point on paying 5 million for a player who isn’t going to improve this team, they must be worth the money, Pukki & Bryan have been superb signings, to mention two, the development of our youngsters has been excellent.

Last point those who think spending 5 million would guarantee adding quality yet stIll question what we have as not good enough, what price do you put on Buendia, Cantwell, Aarons, Godfrey and Lewis? You really think we would sell these for under 5 million? So why would other clubs sell their best players cheap?

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7 minutes ago, Indy said:

People appear to have forgotten how players agents work too, as said above no point pissing money away again on players who aren’t interested in Norwich, Jarvis, Naismith come to mind.

No point on paying 5 million for a player who isn’t going to improve this team, they must be worth the money, Pukki & Bryan have been superb signings, to mention two, the development of our youngsters has been excellent.

Last point those who think spending 5 million would guarantee adding quality yet stIll question what we have as not good enough, what price do you put on Buendia, Cantwell, Aarons, Godfrey and Lewis? You really think we would sell these for under 5 million? So why would other clubs sell their best players cheap?

Do you honestly believe that in the whole footballing world there isn’t players out there that would cost in the region of £5-£8 million that wouldn’t have improved our first team squad?  I’d like to give the scouting network that got in the likes of Buendea, Byram and Pukki ect for peanuts enough credit to believe that they could have upgraded on the likes of Sberny, Vrancic, Leitner, Hanley, Stiepermann ect for that sort of money

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2 minutes ago, JF said:

Do you honestly believe that in the whole footballing world there isn’t players out there that would cost in the region of £5-£8 million that wouldn’t have improved our first team squad?  I’d like to give the scouting network that got in the likes of Buendea, Byram and Pukki ect for peanuts enough credit to believe that they could have upgraded on the likes of Sberny, Vrancic, Leitner, Hanley, Stiepermann ect for that sort of money

So you don’t think our scouting network did that? How much do you value Zimbo at? How much value do you put on the likes of Leitner or Vrancic had we sold them in the summer? You seriously been happy to sell Lietner or Vrancic in the summer for 5 million?

As said above we made a 17 million euro bid for a young French player who rejected us, so I’d hang my hat on our scouts not finding those 5-8 million players you appear to want, so who are they? 
 

By the way, Buendia cost us closer to 7 million with promotion.

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5 minutes ago, Indy said:

So you don’t think our scouting network did that? How much do you value Zimbo at? How much value do you put on the likes of Leitner or Vrancic had we sold them in the summer? You seriously been happy to sell Lietner or Vrancic in the summer for 5 million?

As said above we made a 17 million euro bid for a young French player who rejected us, so I’d hang my hat on our scouts not finding those 5-8 million players you appear to want, so who are they? 
 

By the way, Buendia cost us closer to 7 million with promotion.

I love it when people’s arguments resort to asking fans who the club should sign! That’s not my job is it? Newsflash for you but none of us had heard of Buendea or Zimmermann before they were signed. Also I’m not asking for us to replace those players, I’m saying it’s cloud cookoo land to believe we couldn’t have upgraded the squad if they were given that sort of money to spend. How much do you value Sberny at? We desperately need another option up front. Surely we could have improved on him for £5-£8 million...

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I love it when people come out with the same old shoite over and over that 'surely' there is someone out there for x quid who would answer our problems.......without coming up with one valid suggestion as to who, then when challenged say ' its not my job'. Yes, you are correct,it isn't your job, by the same argument, its not your job to tell others how to do theirs without any idea of how difficult a job it is. Have you any idea how dumb that makes you look. Like the 'i want that one 'character from Little Britain......you do realise the characters are parodies , don't you. Maybe not.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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10 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

I love it when people come out with the same old shoite over and over that 'surely' there is someone out there for x quid who would answer our problems.......without coming up with one valid suggestion as to who, then when challenged say ' its not my job'. Yes, you are correct,it isn't your job, by the same argument, its not your job to tell others how to do theirs without any idea of how difficult a job it is. Have you any idea how dumb that makes you look. Like the 'i want that one 'character from Little Britain......you do realise the characters are parodys , don't you. Maybe not.

It isn’t my ****ing job to pointlessly suggest signings on a forum! But they are out there and the scouting network will know of them. So what you’re saying is you believe in the whole footballing world there is no option out there under £8 million that wouldn’t have upgraded on Dennis Sberny? You’re a ****ing tool..

And the more I see of your posts on this forum the more you a morphing into city1st/Bill...

Edited by JF

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This is not about whether we should or should not splash millions in the transfer market.

We cannot do this and most, if not all, supporters appear to appreciate this.

Most of us would be very weary of this approach especially if it relied upon the whims, fancies and fortunes of some super rich investor. That bubble could burst just as easily for NCFC  as it has for other clubs.

Our collective complaint seems to be that the reserves, both present and future were dealt with that little bit too frugally and that glaring weakness in the team's defensive side of the game were ill-addressed by a reluctance to go that extra mile.

Spending money will always be fraught with dangers in this game ... and the contributions of Roberts and Drmic thus far this season suggest money badly invested, but you cannot win them all and neither signings recall disasters of the past.

 

It now looks like there will be expenditure this January that, in hindsight, should have been made in the Summer. Probably too late, but we have been there before, and before. 

This is not criticism of the approach as such but more of that expression of the overmuch caution, and it's consequences, that rode on the back of the elated hysteria of what last season treated us to. 

 

Smith and Co., Webber and Co., and Farke and Co., believed their own publicity to a point of slight negligence in the small scheme of things. Time will tell.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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3 hours ago, JF said:

“Fast forward two years and what has been achieved is nothing short of amazing. Yes we're extremely likely to come down because we used the cash windfall to sort out all the highly expensive problems listed above, the alternative was to spend like Villa and Fulham and end up in sh!t creek again if we went down.”

 

So there was no alternatives other than spend practically nothing or spend £100 million? 
How about spending £5-8 million on 3 players with potential and developing those players? I get feed up reading comments about us “doing a Fulham, Villa” literally no one has asked for us to do that. What we did was to abandon the model we had in place of getting players in and developing them and decided to take the money and run instead 

Ok, I get your point. We could have gone down that route and spent cash in the way you suggest but we have made a different decision. We decided to invest millions on the players who got us up, so they are tied to us for longer and will command a higher fee. We decided to spend a few million on in demand up and coming talent who will be coming through the academy in future years. We decided to spend money on the infrastructure to keep our academy status and attract players to the club.

We could have spent £5-8 million on three players as you suggest. Patrick Roberts would presumably have been the level of guy we would bring in. He could sit on the bench and watch Onel do it on the pitch instead. I'm afraid if you want to see serious improvements to our squad then you would be looking at much, much more than that. How much to improve on Tetty for instance? The guy was supposed to be a fringe player this season.  Amadou apparently commands a fee of around £6 million and can't oust him from the team. My feeling is that you vastly underestimate the value of what we have and how much it would cost to significantly improve it.

At the end of the day we have gone for it in the way we have. You may not like it, and I respect that, but without mega bucks owners it limits the options we have. 

Edited by Hairy Canary
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Just now, Hairy Canary said:

Ok, I get your point. We could have gone down that route and spent cash in the way you suggest but we have made a different decision. We decided to invest millions on the players who got us up, so they are tied to us for longer and will command a higher fee. We decided to spend a few million on in demand up and coming talent who will be coming through the academy in future years. We decided to spend money on the infrastructure to keep our academy status and attract players to the club.

we could have spent £5-8 million on three players as you suggest. Patrick Roberts would presumably been the level of guy we would bring in. He could sit on the bench and watch Onel do it on the pitch instead. I'm afraid if you want to see serious improvements to our squad then you would be looking at much, much more than that. How much to improve on Tetty for instance? The guy was supposed to be a fringe player this season.  Amadou apparently commands a fee of around £6 million and can't oust him from the team. My feeling is that you vastly underestimate the value of what we have and how much it would cost to significantly improve.

At the end of the day we have gone for it in the way we have. You may not like it, and I respect that, but without mega bucks owners it limits the options we have. 

👍 A very well thought out response and although I don’t necessarily agree that there aren’t players out there for that money that wouldn’t improve the squad I do appreciate that those signings can go either way. I just believe Farkes hands are tied with his options from the bench. If we’re relying on Sberny to come on then we should have given him more viable options for this level

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15 hours ago, Highland Canary said:

Farke is a managerial genius. The responsibility for our failure today rests firmly in the boardroom. Our cash stockpile should at least stave off administration for a while.

A good coach yes. On the evidence of this season though not a managerial genius. His performance has been disappointing for me although he’s had one hand tied behind his back. 

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It isn't the fans' responsibility to do the scouting. I think it's a perfectly reasonable expectation that our scouting team could find players who will improve our squad; the problem lies on whether the funds will be released to sign them.

In the last two years we have been shopping in the bargain basement - I think I'm right in saying that the most we've paid up front for any player is £3.5m for Hanley (who was a bit of a 'January panic buy' to strengthen an ailing defence). With the money we've saved over the summer, coupled with projected income for a couple of sales in the summer plus parachute payments, I would expect the scouting team to be able to aim a little higher, and thus bring in players of an even higher quality than they've managed so far.

In addition, we can bank on another couple of youth teamers breaking through; Lewis, Cantwell and Aarons were hardly 'wonderkids' with massive reputations when they broke through (Godfrey had been touted for a little longer). Next season it could be Martin, Adshead, Fitzpatrick, Famewo or a couple of others who aren't even on our radar yet.

There was more 'trial and error' in our first season; a lot of the players we signed didn't look that great but stepped up once Farke's tactical system had been implemented, and some never really fit in at all. From that first season, Husband, Franke, Watkins, Raggett and (arguably) Srbeny weren't great signings. Last season, only Marshall was a flop (plus Heise, who was only ever signed as backup anyway). Loans are always a gamble (Edwards, Passlack, Roberts, Fahrmann), but the permanent signings this recruitment team have made have been brilliant in my opinion.

The homegrown quota will also be addressed, hence an increase in 'futureproofed' signings in the mould of Redmond/Maddison/Godfrey, such as Idah/Adshead/Scully/Martin; not to mention all the youngsters coming through our own younger age groups, one or two of whom might be expected to make the grade.

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1 hour ago, JF said:

Do you honestly believe that in the whole footballing world there isn’t players out there that would cost in the region of £5-£8 million that wouldn’t have improved our first team squad?

Amadou, Fahrmann and Patrick Roberts would all have cost in excess of the £5 million to £8 million.

I suggest if purchasing rather than loans had been the option that we had taken, the combined total would have been in the region of £30 to 40 million + a commitment to at least another £10 million in wages. 

It's a good job that we didn't take the option that everybody seems to want to take of gambling our future, because the evidence is that finding these £5 million to £8 million players is not the formality you seem to think!

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

Amadou, Fahrmann and Patrick Roberts would all have cost in excess of the £5 million to £8 million.

I suggest if purchasing rather than loans had been the option that we had taken, the combined total would have been in the region of £30 to 40 million + a commitment to at least another £10 million in wages. 

It's a good job that we didn't take the option that everybody seems to want to take of gambling our future, because the evidence is that finding these £5 million to £8 million players is not the formality you seem to think!

signing footballers for a football club is now gambling our future...

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25 minutes ago, JF said:

👍 A very well thought out response and although I don’t necessarily agree that there aren’t players out there for that money that wouldn’t improve the squad I do appreciate that those signings can go either way. I just believe Farkes hands are tied with his options from the bench. If we’re relying on Sberny to come on then we should have given him more viable options for this level

We only play one up front, and brought Drmic in to compete with Pukki. Spending "under 8m" on a 3rd choice striker just isn't financially viable for us.

Webber also spoke a lot about how the "Premiership tax" has impacted on signings. Players who were, for the sake of argument, available for £8m were suddenly "valued" at £16m because we were in the Prem. We're in a world where Adam Webster is "worth" £20m..

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38 minutes ago, JF said:

It isn’t my ****ing job to pointlessly suggest signings on a forum! But they are out there and the scouting network will know of them. So what you’re saying is you believe in the whole footballing world there is no option out there under £8 million that wouldn’t have upgraded on Dennis Sberny? You’re a ****ing tool..

And the more I see of your posts on this forum the more  a morphing into city1st/Bill...

Well, that didnt take much to trigger  you, not that it was my intention.  Ignoring  the insults, I will reply, but just once  , as I fear you may get even angrier,  and I wouldn't want to upset one so sensitive.  First off , at no point did I say that there was no one out there for this ( plucked from the air) 8 mill you suggest., so pack it in on that one. Secondly  , I am completely  sure that the scouting department will be looking at all and every possibility that could      ( not will, as no transfer is a guaranteed  success,  but I reckon you are aware of that) improve the squad.  Thirdly,  please dont resort to blunt insults,  as more roundabout  ones are much more fun to decipher. 😉. Here's  hoping.

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5 minutes ago, kirku said:

We only play one up front, and brought Drmic in to compete with Pukki. Spending "under 8m" on a 3rd choice striker just isn't financially viable for us.

Webber also spoke a lot about how the "Premiership tax" has impacted on signings. Players who were, for the sake of argument, available for £8m were suddenly "valued" at £16m because we were in the Prem. We're in a world where Adam Webster is "worth" £20m..

Fair enough. Drmic clearly wasn’t the answer as he had an injury record before here which has continued, leaving Dennis Sberny as a backup in the PL. This all leads to a question that no one wants to answer though. What is the point of us reaching the PL? It’s always going to be this way, the money that players cost and wages are not going to change and now we have a situation where fans are so quick to accept that a signing will end up a RVW or Naismith that they don’t want us to sign anyone. No one ever mentions they could be a Maddison, Buendea, Pukki or Godfrey though. With such acceptance us being at this level seems pointless 

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10 minutes ago, JF said:

signing footballers for a football club is now gambling our future...

If it stretches the financial plan too far then yes, it is. Not that difficult a concept  really. 

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2 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

If it stretches the financial plan too far then yes, it is. Not that difficult a concept  really. 

Was the signing of James Maddison risking the club’s future? How about Emi, Godfrey and Pukki. I’m amazed people with these opinions ever moved on from their first love, once bitten twice shy...

As for the financial plan. We have a guaranteed £200 or so million coming in over the next two seasons, I think we could afford one or two signings without ‘risking the clubs future’ who knows we may sign another gem and sell for significantly more

Edited by JF

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Just now, JF said:

Fair enough. Drmic clearly wasn’t the answer as he had an injury record before here which has continued, leaving Dennis Sberny as a backup in the PL. This all leads to a question that no one wants to answer though. What is the point of us reaching the PL? It’s always going to be this way, the money that players cost and wages are not going to change and now we have a situation where fans are so quick to accept that a signing will end up a RVW or Naismith that they don’t want us to sign anyone. No one ever mentions they could be a Maddison, Buendea, Pukki or Godfrey though. With such acceptance us being at this level seems pointless 

To answer your question ref  the point of us reaching  the PL..... we have , in one season completely  stabilised the club financially.  The destination we are aiming for is improvement year on year, from a sound financial base. That's it. Finito.  

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3 hours ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

There is no guarantee that the stowmarket duo would spend the money wisely

what I would like to see is a fan on the board to hold them to account I would recommend the following as examples

Robin Sainty - heads up the canary trust. Knows nothing about football but would ensure the ground is well stocked with woman’s sanitary wears

LDC - would agree with everything that the board would say

Fenway Frank - again knows nothing about football but would ensure the shelves in the kiosks would be fully stocked

Jobsworth Canary - the only one I can see that would keep the boards feet to the floor and ensure they make the right decisions 

so I call on you all to support me becoming Independent director for ncfc 

I'm not sure your trolling on here, whether considered humorous or not should extend to taking swipes at what posters do for a living.

as for you though. Why would we be able to trust your opinion to stay consistent over the course of a season? let alone a few months. Back in August you said

"One week to go before we kick off, we have seen the transfer business and more importantly who we have kept.

what is your opinion on where we will finish

i genuinely think we are good enough to get 15/16th place.

so for me we will survive provided we keep our key players like Pukki fit"

or....

"I don’t understand why we keep banging on about spending money the club doesn’t have

We go with the brilliant young talent we have and give it a right go"

 

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