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The Great Mass Debater

Team for next season

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I think most fans have probably accepted relegation is likely this season. I think there are reasons for optimism though. We accepted a number of players would leave, but I think we can retain much of the team and with the right recruitment, we are likely to be competitive next season.

What I fear, is not relegation, it is decline, it is being stuck mid-table in the Championship for years, never being able to challenge for promotion.

We'll get decent fees on our terms for Arrons, Godfrey, Pukki, Buendi and probably Cantwell. Hernandez and Lewis may also move, but not necessarily.

For me retaining Krul would be the biggest boon, he has been outstanding this season, and though he has Holland ambitions still, if we could get him to stay that would be great, one of our few leaders. Our biggest problem will be replacing Pukki's goals. Drmic wont stay, Srbeny was never good enough. Idah may not be ready.

So this is a realistic first XI we will retain, and we should have funds to recruit smartly on top of this

 

-----------------------------Idah------------------------

Hernandez Stiepermann McLean

------------------Vrancic Trybull-------------------

Lewis/Heise Klose Zimmermann Byram

----------------------------Krul--------------------

 

Its not a bad starting point. Leitner and Hanley in the squad too

 

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Are you kidding me? It's not even Christmas and you have accepted we are going to be relegated? And you think most fans have?  And you are already suggesting a team for the championship? For goodness sake, can't we enjoy the challenge of this season and its twists and turns without the "hey man we're going down" stuff? 

I sincerely hope that most fans still think there is a chance we can get up with the pack and make a good fist of the rest of the season and that we have a fighting chance of staying up. We do have that chance and we need to keep believing. 

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2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Are you kidding me? It's not even Christmas and you have accepted we are going to be relegated? And you think most fans have?  And you are already suggesting a team for the championship? For goodness sake, can't we enjoy the challenge of this season and its twists and turns without the "hey man we're going down" stuff? 

I sincerely hope that most fans still think there is a chance we can get up with the pack and make a good fist of the rest of the season and that we have a fighting chance of staying up. We do have that chance and we need to keep believing. 

Yes I think a realistic chance of survival is around 20% at best. How would you view it then in a percentage?

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12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Are you kidding me? It's not even Christmas and you have accepted we are going to be relegated? And you think most fans have?  And you are already suggesting a team for the championship? For goodness sake, can't we enjoy the challenge of this season and its twists and turns without the "hey man we're going down" stuff? 

I sincerely hope that most fans still think there is a chance we can get up with the pack and make a good fist of the rest of the season and that we have a fighting chance of staying up. We do have that chance and we need to keep believing. 

 

I havent seen many people on this board aside from you Lakey still banging the drum. The current team is not good enough to stay up. Wolves proved that. Despite playing them off the park and them putting in the worst half of football I've seen from the opposition this year, they were still able to defeat us, without even really trying. 

So yes, I think we would need huge investment in January to have any chance of survival, and to do so would be foolhardy, when Fulham spent £150m and still went down. 

I will enjoy this season for what it is. I will enjoy the football we will play. But I will enjoy it far more without clinging to the idea that we will stay up, or that necessarily everything depends on staying up. Far from it. I am positive about the future of the club. I look forward to a sustainable team that will continue to have us on a rollercoaster. But I am not going to watch this season with the pressure and stress and desperation of previous relegation battles. I am looking to the future, because honestly I think this season is gone and we'll all enjoy it more if we appreciate what we are and what we have, than taking every defeat as a crushing blow and the end of the world.

Norwich dont need to stay up this season. I think our model knowingly accounts for a likely relegation. If we pressurise the situation it could get pretty nasty, we could get pretty critical. I dont want to go down that road.

I like this manager, I like this team, style and players. I dont want to get sucked into negativity every time we lose. I want to remain positive. For me it is ok for the team to fail to survive. I appreciate them for what they are and am thankful the club is being sensible and I look forward to the challenge ahead.

I think there is a growing maturity amongst fans too. They realise what we are up against and that our team are brave underdogs doing their best. Fans are more and more appreciating that a club like us, in a league like this has to be realistic, and that yoyoing is our natural position.

I dont think it is defeatism to take a step back and look at the big picture with optimism. I expect the team to fight, but honestly I dont think with the resources of our competitors it is a fight we can win, or should expect to win. We should simply appreciate the football being played and remember that the future is bright, regardless of the division we are playing in.

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

80% + chance of relegation but I think the potential starting X1 will not be anything like that. 

 

Im not saying that is how we will start next season, Im saying this is a realistic framework, and that team aint half bad. We're likely to have some money to be able to recruit smartly so of course there will be new signings in there. What Im saying is, realistically we could retain all of those players, so even if we didnt strengthen the team is already decent, and with the right acquisitions should be competitive.

Alternatively we could **** £100m in January, still go down and end up having to gut the team so stay afloat, with many years like the Roeder years in recovery. No thanks

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1 hour ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I think most fans have probably accepted relegation is likely this season. I think there are reasons for optimism though. We accepted a number of players would leave, but I think we can retain much of the team and with the right recruitment, we are likely to be competitive next season.

What I fear, is not relegation, it is decline, it is being stuck mid-table in the Championship for years, never being able to challenge for promotion.

We'll get decent fees on our terms for Arrons, Godfrey, Pukki, Buendi and probably Cantwell. Hernandez and Lewis may also move, but not necessarily.

For me retaining Krul would be the biggest boon, he has been outstanding this season, and though he has Holland ambitions still, if we could get him to stay that would be great, one of our few leaders. Our biggest problem will be replacing Pukki's goals. Drmic wont stay, Srbeny was never good enough. Idah may not be ready.

So this is a realistic first XI we will retain, and we should have funds to recruit smartly on top of this

 

-----------------------------Idah------------------------

Hernandez Stiepermann McLean

------------------Vrancic Trybull-------------------

Lewis/Heise Klose Zimmermann Byram

----------------------------Krul--------------------

 

Its not a bad starting point. Leitner and Hanley in the squad too

 

Someone clearly hasn’t been watching Brad Pitt’s ‘Troy’ with Daniel Farke and the lads this Christmas!

 

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I too think it's highly likely we'll go down but it's far too early to speculate on next summer's transfer business should it happen. So much could change between now and then.

And assuming we sell those five players you mentioned, I'd like to think we'd get at least £80m for them. Obviously a portion of that would be spent on completely reshaping the squad, and it's impossible to predict who may be brought in, so our starting XI next season if we go down will be very different from the one in the opening post.

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We may not sell any of those 5 players, it may be Stiepermann, Hanley, Trybull, Tettey and Klose that we’d move on. Remember this probable relegation was budgeted for, all the players are on 4 year contracts and much of the team is young, so apart from wages what is the incentive to leave immediately instead of taking another year to mature in this team? 

Edited by Surfer

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5 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Yes I think a realistic chance of survival is around 20% at best. How would you view it then in a percentage?

How can you put a 20% chance?  City must have a 50/50% chance of winning all their remaining 20 matches? Football is non predictable imo, isn’t that why we love the game so much? How many people % wise expected City to beat Man City? My point exactly!

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6 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I too think it's highly likely we'll go down but it's far too early to speculate on next summer's transfer business should it happen. So much could change between now and then.

And assuming we sell those five players you mentioned, I'd like to think we'd get at least £80m for them. Obviously a portion of that would be spent on completely reshaping the squad, and it's impossible to predict who may be brought in, so our starting XI next season if we go down will be very different from the one in the opening post.

Bloody hell, only £80 mill for all 5, Wacky (Backy?) mate?! 😱😱😱

It’s time NCFC stopped being such a soft touch in the transfer windows. Never in our history have we had so many valuable assets, if any have to go then I 110% trust Stuart to get this window right 🙏

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Krul outstanding? eh? He's good at shouting at the players in front of him and can stop a few shots but that does not qualify for 'outstanding'.

So far he's probably been better overall than last season and has made some cracking saves but he's still riddled with errors and lapses in concentration / judgement.

Personally I'd like to see Fahrmann given a chance but I know this won't happen as Farke is a reactive manager rather than a proactive one.

Norwich fans love an average player.

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By all means resurrect this post in March, but way too early for this. And Drmic is injured and on a 3 year deal, so wouldn't have the OP's confidence that he won't stay. 

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7 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

The current team is not good enough to stay up.

I could have highlighted all your post to me, but this part will do. You simply don't know if this team is good enough or not. No one does because the future has not been written yet!!!! 

And you seem to equate "enjoyment" with accepting we will go down....how about enjoying the football without accepting we will go down?  If you need to accept something, accept that you don't know what will happen, because that is the reality.

You mention added pressure trying to stay up...but there is no added pressure to think we might stay up, unless you want to think there is added pressure!! 

The mindset that makes sense to me is to enjoy the football for what it is - so we are that much in aggreement - but this kind of fatalism that some seem to have that "we are going down" is quite simply to my mind a cop out. It's a kind of "Yey, I'm going to enjoy the football because we are going down and it doesn't matter, its cool because it's in the long term plan".

How about enjoying the football because of the challenge of the competition....the challenge of playing our style of football and seeing if we can improve results? The margins as we have seen are very small......there is room for improvement - and we can improve.  

I am frankly staggered at this thought that people have given up already and are just going to try and enjoy it, as if they can't enjoy it for what it is.....a challenge to improve what we do and a challenge to win every game. If people haven't got the stomach for the challenge, then fair enough, but some of us still believe the future is uncertain and like it that way.

Football, like life, is uncertain. You simply have to enjoy it for what it is and the uncertainty is delicious - we could beat Villa, we could beat Spurs, we could beat Palace...we could end up in the mix again, like probably Watford will too and then the whole second half of the season could be a dogfight between about ten clubs to stay up.  Likewise we could lose the next four or five games.....but we don't know that! The future is uncertain - accept that then you might enjoy the football even more!

Relish it! Relish the challenge! Enjoy the challenge! Enjoy the fact that we are up against huge odds and could still overcome them!  Enjoy it for what it is.....not for what is some kind of mental gymnastics that says we have been relegated when wer're not even half way through the season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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3 hours ago, City 2nd said:

How can you put a 20% chance?  City must have a 50/50% chance of winning all their remaining 20 matches? Football is non predictable imo, isn’t that why we love the game so much? How many people % wise expected City to beat Man City? My point exactly!

Just checked how the professionals view it and it’s less than a 20% chance. 4/1 to stay up but we’ve the over-round calculator bookies use it’s realistically around a 15% chance on staying up. 

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1 hour ago, non-scoring strikers said:

Krul outstanding? eh? He's good at shouting at the players in front of him and can stop a few shots but that does not qualify for 'outstanding'.

So far he's probably been better overall than last season and has made some cracking saves but he's still riddled with errors and lapses in concentration / judgement.

Personally I'd like to see Fahrmann given a chance but I know this won't happen as Farke is a reactive manager rather than a proactive one.

Norwich fans love an average player.

Binner

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

And you seem to equate "enjoyment" with accepting we will go down....how about enjoying the football without accepting we will go down?

How about you follow the club how you want to and let Debater follow the club how he wants to? If his way leads to him having a greater enjoyment of watching his club and leads to less stress in his life in an area that should bring him joy, then so much the better for this mental health and general well-being. You keep dreaming of top 4 if that gets you to your happy happy place, that's your right, but don't start dictating to others how they should feel like you're the bl00dy forum dad. 

OTBC

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32 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

How about you follow the club how you want to and let Debater follow the club how he wants to? If his way leads to him having a greater enjoyment of watching his club and leads to less stress in his life in an area that should bring him joy, then so much the better for this mental health and general well-being. You keep dreaming of top 4 if that gets you to your happy happy place, that's your right, but don't start dictating to others how they should feel like you're the bl00dy forum dad. 

OTBC

Ok, I can accept that, but I am still going try and get across to people that it is not over. It is not done and dusted. We're not even half way throught the season.  AIso, I  am not dreaming of top four any more than I'm dreaming of relegation, all I do is accept that anything can happen - as proved last season.  Top four or bottom three, they were all possible eventualities at the start of the season and we have had that many close matches that we could have been ten points better off now which would have put us well in the mix. We didn't get those points, but there are still plenty of points to play for.  Onwards and upwards!

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It is a bit early to look at our 'championship squad for next season'. 

I'm actually still quite enjoying this season. Looks like we won't quite have enough but lately we've improved and looked competitive. Whichever way you look at it Wolves are a quality side.

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Far too early to know at this point.

The only point I'd make is your starting XI in the OP would only contain two 'homegrown' players if it didn't have Lewis (although I'm not totally sure of where Idah fits in these rules) so we'd have to stuff the bench with them somehow.

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3 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Bloody hell, only £80 mill for all 5, Wacky (Backy?) mate?! 😱😱😱

It’s time NCFC stopped being such a soft touch in the transfer windows. Never in our history have we had so many valuable assets, if any have to go then I 110% trust Stuart to get this window right 🙏

I said 'at least'. I initially put £100m before changing it as I was expecting someone to moan about how Aarons and Godfrey aren't all they're cracked up to be, Pukki will be 30 etc.

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Far too early to know at this point.

The only point I'd make is your starting XI in the OP would only contain two 'homegrown' players if it didn't have Lewis (although I'm not totally sure of where Idah fits in these rules) so we'd have to stuff the bench with them somehow.

Idah will be homegrown next season, I believe.

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14 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Idah will be homegrown next season, I believe.

Cheers.

The homegrown thing is honestly my major concern about going down right now. I think some folks assume if we sell Aarons, Godfrey and Cantwell we can just call up replacements from the youth team but it just isn't that simple. 

Edited by king canary

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Softcock alert...... glad the players haven't run up the white flag. Less than half way through the season and some of you have given up. 

I wouldn't want to be next to you in the trenches. 

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3 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Just checked how the professionals view it and it’s less than a 20% chance. 4/1 to stay up but we’ve the over-round calculator bookies use it’s realistically around a 15% chance on staying up. 

We've got a 100% chance of staying up. 

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40 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

Softcock alert...... glad the players haven't run up the white flag. Less than half way through the season and some of you have given up. 

I wouldn't want to be next to you in the trenches. 

No one has given up but the table doesn’t lie after this many matches. 

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7 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

No one has given up but the table doesn’t lie after this many matches. 

 

13 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

80% + chance of relegation but I think the potential starting X1 will not be anything like that. 

 

4 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Just checked how the professionals view it and it’s less than a 20% chance. 4/1 to stay up but we’ve the over-round calculator bookies use it’s realistically around a 15% chance on staying up. 

Who are these professionals? Ignore them get behind the Team, despite the injuries this could still be a great season. 

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15 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

No one has given up but the table doesn’t lie after this many matches. 

I don't know... Seems as though quite a few have indeed given up!

See Kick It Off's post. Where he says we are definitely going down and says 'thank God!'

I mean, come on! The Championship...where can you go from there?! Up to the Prem, down to League One, or floating about hopelessly in mid table. I know what league* I'd prefer to be mid table in and it isn't the Championship!

(*Clue: We're already in it)

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19 minutes ago, splendidrush said:

 

 

Who are these professionals? Ignore them get behind the Team, despite the injuries this could still be a great season. 

Those who quote the odds/chances of survival. We could need 13 points off the last 4 games and some would still be hopeful.

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I think Cantwell will stay unless he literally banged in 20 more goals and Real Madrid were calling. He would relish being the focal point of a team gunning for promotion next season now he has found his feet.

Maclean is the CAM for the long haul I think so we better get used to it. He will be an important player in the championship.

I think Klose may be moved on regardless or kept as Zimmermann back up. Whatever level we are at, I think another centre back will be coming in.

Byram has surely signed up knowing what may happen so i think it will be him and I think Lewis will stay. Aarons will be sold. Can see Spurs taking a look at him.

This leaves Trybull and a last hurrah for Tettey in the middle. I think Leitner may have burned his bridges behind the scenes and will go in summer if not sooner but you never know. I think we may need our own version of Kalvin Phillips next to Trybull anyway and Amadou will likely leave.

We are all obviously hoping Idah does make the breakthrough but Icon and Drmic will probably still be about. I hope we end up buying Rhodes if we do go down though.

I think Hernandez is here for the long haul as well.

So in summary, gone from the starting 11 are Aarons, Godfrey, Buendia, Pukki

Leaves

Krul

Byram, Zimmermann, New CB/Hanley/Rocky/Famewo, Lewis

Trybull, Vrancic/new CM/Tettey

Onel, McLean, Cantwell

Idah/Rhodes

 

 

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