Jump to content
Note to existing users - password reset is required Read more... ×

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, king canary said:

Clubs have to consider resale value when they sign a player at the cost though and realistically Pukki's value is only going to go down as he gets older.

I'd look at someone like Jay Rodriguez for example- 29, 33 goals in the Premier League but only cost £5m according to reports.

I don't know what Pukki would go for but I'm not sure Id use Jay Rodriguez as a guide. Those 29 goals came in just over 100 premier league appearances.

Besides it's not just resale value. if in January a team decide he could be what makes all the difference between staying up and relegation who knows what those with bigger bank balances will be prepared to pay.

I, like most consider Naismith to have been a massive failure here however if he had just put in a couple of performances in that 15/16 season turning a couple of defeats into wins we would have stayed up and ultimately he would have been worth it. 

Regardless, we need to hold onto him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

If the Murphys went for around the £10-12M mark the I think Pukki's value as a striker would be more. In January, a club looking to stay in the Prem, other than us, might well think a dozen goals from him would be worth a good deal of money to keep them afloat.

In the summer, it will depend on what he does for the rest of this season.

Fact is he is a good player as Saturday's goal showed, so we do not have to sell him for anything less than we think he is worth.

There is no way he would be sold to a Relegation rival in January.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

Surely some will go to continue the self funding model ?

 Nice try, but not necessarily,  as you well know , parachute  payments  will help keep the squad largely together  for next season, if we go down, and the season  after that. Sure there may be the odd  departure  , but also some incoming too,  who may turn out to be better than what we have. But dont let the all the positive things about the club stop you from sniping.  After all , you have a season ticket , its your right to be a whinge bag.....in fact if you and jobbo are anything to go by, it's your duty. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arsenal were prepared to pay something like £50 million for Vardy when he was 29 and he turned them down. Pukki should command £20 million plus but I’d rather keep him, replacing him would be incredibly hard

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a hunch we may spend more in January than we expect- the logic being that we are more attractive as a Premier league club and the club know they have virtually guaranteed big fees to come in at the end of the season. I would've thought smart agents would promote the club to their clients knowing that they have a good chance of replacing outgoing players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We wouldn't sell Pukki as no-one would be interested at a £20m + price tag and whilst his market value might not be that high his value to us is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, CanaryLegend said:

If and big if we go down and no one wants that clearly but what do people view the position for next year. How many would go and in the current climate how much would they go for?

I would imagine Godfrey, Pukki, Aarons and Buendia will be top of most people’s lists.

Cantwell must be earning some admirers also and then if Jamal can come back into the frame and impress then he will be unfortunate not to see a big money move.

Question being with the riches in the game and transfers forever increasing what is a fair and reasonable price.

Maybe the sales combined will allow players like Adam Idah and Josh Martin to flourish. 

We have to be aiming for £30m for Godfrey and £20m for Pukki. Even Cantwell for me could fetch £15m+ easily and even then it may seem soft and too cheap.

 

 

 

*** THIS RESPONSE HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE MODERATOR FOR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE ***

 

With that said, we feel that CP’s response to the OP was in the right when saying - and we paraphrase for the sake of the children - that this speculative topic warrants no interest, as the topic lends itself to the idea that NCFC are on a path of failure and will need to sell off their prize assets to survive.
 

NCFC wish to go unofficially on record and say that the topic addressed by the OP is categorically and unequivocally nonsense. Nothing against the OP personally, we simply don’t understand why a negative outcome needs to be fortified.
 

As many have noticed over the last 18 months, we have moved into a new mindset and model, and although we recognize that many fans have been emotionally abused and mentally scared throughout the decades, we are here to tell you that this is no longer the case. For some the changes are incrementally too small to notice and, combined with the habitual victim-based response, there is nothing we can do for them. Others of you, however, recognize how the small changes that have been made are gradually permeating the club and team and we are excited to continue to watch and enjoy the evolution of our wonderful club.

Nobody ever said this journey was going to be easy. Nobody said we were going to succeed. Nobody is responsible for how you feel about it, but you. What was said was that, if you have the stomach for it, strap-in and enjoy the ride. If the ride becomes too stressful, too worrisome, too demanding upon your bladder and bowels, then simply step off, pull yourself together, and get back on, if you wish.

We share this in the utmost good faith of fandom and in the hopes that those of you who live in the pessimistic ‘what if’ bubble, would stop feeding that negativity energetic thought pattern and reengineer your perspective to a more positive tone and begin believing that we are Premeir League!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Edited by CirclePoint
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

*** THIS RESPONSE HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE MODERATOR FOR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE ***

 

With that said, we feel that CP’s response to the OP was in the right when saying - and we paraphrase for the sake of the children - that this speculative topic warrants no interest, as the topic lends itself to the idea that NCFC are on a path of failure and will need to sell off their prize assets to survive.
 

NCFC wish to go unofficially on record and say that the topic addressed by the OP is categorically and unequivocally nonsense. Nothing against the OP personally, we simply don’t understand why a negative outcome needs to be fortified.
 

As many have noticed over the last 18 months, we have moved into a new mindset and model, and although we recognize that many fans have been emotionally abused and mentally scared throughout the decades, we are here to tell you that this is no longer the case. For some the changes are incrementally too small to notice and, combined with the habitual victim-based response, there is nothing we can do for them. Others of you, however, recognize how the small changes that have been made are gradually permeating the club and team and we are excited to continue to watch and enjoy the evolution of our wonderful club.

Nobody ever said this journey was going to be easy. Nobody said we were going to succeed. Nobody is responsible for how you feel about it, but you. What was said was that, if you have the stomach for it, strap-in and enjoy the ride. If the ride becomes too stressful, too worrisome, too demanding upon your bladder and bowels, then simply step off, pull yourself together, and get back on, if you wish.

We share this in the utmost good faith of fandom and in the hopes that those of you who live in the pessimistic ‘what if’ bubble, would stop feeding that negativity energetic thought pattern and reengineer your perspective to a more positive tone and begin believing that we are Premeir League!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Post of the week. 👍

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Hillhead said:

I, like most consider Naismith to have been a massive failure here however if he had just put in a couple of performances in that 15/16 season turning a couple of defeats into wins we would have stayed up and ultimately he would have been worth it. 

Sadly, that's the legacy he will always have with us and will always be used as the measure by which all future buys are made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Woodman said:

Sadly, that's the legacy he will always have with us and will always be used as the measure by which all future buys are made.

He shouldn't be. 

Neil and McNally lost their minds that January. Anyone with any faith in Webber surely understands he's highly unlikely to repeat that error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/12/2019 at 09:06, Well b back said:

As long as we then strengthen again with a bit of experience it can be an exciting model.

You do not strengthen by selling your best players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, king canary said:

He shouldn't be. 

Neil and McNally lost their minds that January. Anyone with any faith in Webber surely understands he's highly unlikely to repeat that error.

Absolutely right; just like Alex Neil lost his mind after the 6-2 at Newcastle. We have a distinct philosophy now, on and off the pitch, and those in charge of it aren't going to start doubting themselves when the going gets tough. 'Tis the season... believe! 🙂

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/12/2019 at 08:54, Well b back said:

Pukki will be 30. He is also not English. If he was 25 he would be worth well in excess of £30m, as it is I think you will find he would be valued far closer to £10m unless somebody becomes totally desperate in January.

£10m for Pukki? Someone would be getting an absolute steal there. 

Proven, premier league strikers costs way more than that surely. Not that I would want us to sell him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/12/2019 at 09:14, Well b back said:

Agreed again and you also have to look at this from players points of view.

Should we go down ( big if at present ) If Pukki is offered PL football and security for his family can’t see him turning it down. This will be his last chance to bag big money for his pension fund. Will the youngsters ( I include Bundiea in that ) not see their futures and development away from the Championship ? Maddison built this team, so looking at this positively there is no reason why this sort of sale wouldn’t see us signing players that improve us further.

I think they are unlikely to improve us further because we won't get better than we have and because we will be losing several of them.

Maddison was different. It was one player leaving (granted shortly after Murphy and Pritchard too), the monies from which enables us to retain and build a better all round team. This time if we go down, whilst we won't be forced to sell anyone for financial reasons, I find it hard to see how ultimately we can hold on to the 4 youngsters plus Buendia and Pukki. Replacing half our team with cheaper replacements and keeping it at the same level, let alone improving it will be extremely challenging if not impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I think they are unlikely to improve us further because we won't get better than we have and because we will be losing several of them.

Maddison was different. It was one player leaving (granted shortly after Murphy and Pritchard too), the monies from which enables us to retain and build a better all round team. This time if we go down, whilst we won't be forced to sell anyone for financial reasons, I find it hard to see how ultimately we can hold on to the 4 youngsters plus Buendia and Pukki. Replacing half our team with cheaper replacements and keeping it at the same level, let alone improving it will be extremely challenging if not impossible.

Even in the worst-case scenario that all six of those players were to leave, we could expect to recoup a total in excess of £100m for them. Considering Pukki cost us nothing, Emi £1.5m up front, and the other four nothing, what's to say we couldn't repeat the feat? While Farke and Webber are still at the helm, I trust them to identify the right targets to fit the system at the right price. It might mean one more year of consolidation while the new players bed in, but £100m plus parachute payments should be enough to guarantee financial stability for a good few years as well as rebuilding the team.

I don't think all six of them would necessarily leave, anyway. I think we could at least hope to hold on to Jamal and Todd for another season, and possibly Max too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 17/12/2019 at 08:54, PurpleCanary said:

There won't be a fire sale.

Says who? I think most of our top players agents will be looking to move their registered players on should city be relegated, particularly those who are on the fringes of their national teams. Would the likes of Pukki and maybe some others want to go to the Euros as a championship players? Somehow I doubt it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

Says who? I think most of our top players agents will be looking to move their registered players on should city be relegated, particularly those who are on the fringes of their national teams. Would the likes of Pukki and maybe some others want to go to the Euros as a championship players? Somehow I doubt it!

Says I.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, City 2nd said:

Says who? I think most of our top players agents will be looking to move their registered players on should city be relegated, particularly those who are on the fringes of their national teams. Would the likes of Pukki and maybe some others want to go to the Euros as a championship players? Somehow I doubt it!

Your points still don't lend themselves to a 'fire sale'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, CirclePoint said:

*** THIS RESPONSE HAS BEEN REMOVED BY THE MODERATOR FOR INAPPROPRIATE LANGUAGE ***

 

With that said, we feel that CP’s response to the OP was in the right when saying - and we paraphrase for the sake of the children - that this speculative topic warrants no interest, as the topic lends itself to the idea that NCFC are on a path of failure and will need to sell off their prize assets to survive.
 

NCFC wish to go unofficially on record and say that the topic addressed by the OP is categorically and unequivocally nonsense. Nothing against the OP personally, we simply don’t understand why a negative outcome needs to be fortified.
 

As many have noticed over the last 18 months, we have moved into a new mindset and model, and although we recognize that many fans have been emotionally abused and mentally scared throughout the decades, we are here to tell you that this is no longer the case. For some the changes are incrementally too small to notice and, combined with the habitual victim-based response, there is nothing we can do for them. Others of you, however, recognize how the small changes that have been made are gradually permeating the club and team and we are excited to continue to watch and enjoy the evolution of our wonderful club.

Nobody ever said this journey was going to be easy. Nobody said we were going to succeed. Nobody is responsible for how you feel about it, but you. What was said was that, if you have the stomach for it, strap-in and enjoy the ride. If the ride becomes too stressful, too worrisome, too demanding upon your bladder and bowels, then simply step off, pull yourself together, and get back on, if you wish.

We share this in the utmost good faith of fandom and in the hopes that those of you who live in the pessimistic ‘what if’ bubble, would stop feeding that negativity energetic thought pattern and reengineer your perspective to a more positive tone and begin believing that we are Premeir League!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

There are a few more people on here that should definitely read this. 

And certainly not just in relation to this topic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, City 2nd said:

Says who? I think most of our top players agents will be looking to move their registered players on should city be relegated, particularly those who are on the fringes of their national teams. Would the likes of Pukki and maybe some others want to go to the Euros as a championship players? Somehow I doubt it!

I doubt it would be a huge issue for Pukki- playing at the Championship level is still higher than most other players in the Finland squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, City 2nd said:

Says who? I think most of our top players agents will be looking to move their registered players on should city be relegated, particularly those who are on the fringes of their national teams. Would the likes of Pukki and maybe some others want to go to the Euros as a championship players? Somehow I doubt it!

A fire sale refers to things being sold at a fraction of their actual value.

Considering everyone is aware of the self-funding model (love it or hate it, we all know what it is by now), then they must also be aware that selling dirt cheap is the last thing we will do if relegation were to happen.

We didn't spend much in the summer, we have a rather sizeable profit to look forward to on the next accounts (relative to the recent ones of course), we will have parachute payments, worst case.

Suddenly, should we go down, we aren't the team who NEED to accept derisory offers for players who are worth more to us. Some may throw their toys out the pram, some won't. BUT, we don't have to take whatever we will be offered.

This is what the self sustaining model should do for us, put us generally in a better position than we have been previously.Who knows if it will, I hope it does. It HAS to be worth finding out.

I think what you are referring to, but confusing with a 'fire sale', is VOLUME of sales.

Edited by Flying Dutchman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

You do not strengthen by selling your best players

Are our young players currently our best players ? Will they be our best players if here in 3 seasons time - probably.They are 2/3 the way through their development, clubs pay big money for English and young and potential. Byram is a good example, bought for £750,000 and currently ( I emphasise currently ) is as good as Aaron’s and Lewis allowing us to sell one of them for multi millions without weakening ( some would argue strengthening ) our CURRENT team. Another example is Pukki for a free against Olivera, although sold at a different time an upgrade for free on the player considered our top striker at the time.

Hence Godfrey. Going by the comments made by other clubs there is a fair chance he will evolve into one of the England centre halves. Will he do that here ? Will his chances be hindered ? Our current situation asks 2 questions, to stay up would be better suited with an experienced centre half ( Hugh to Leicester, Cahill to Palace spring to mind ) and cashing in, or should we be the ones that finish his development. In fact if we were relegated would he even see it in his best interests to stay.

Look at Maddison, I think many would agree our best player. He was sold and that funded a team to win the Championship. His development was neither proved or finished. Many teams were not certain, hence he went to Leicester where he is now proven and moved on again ( footballing wise ). Now he is that article the likes of Man Utd feel he is not just worth signing now but worth a lot more than he was sold for. Of course many on here will automatically assume he will be off to the likes of Man Utd, however of course the Leicester board will be saying we don’t need to sell and the Leicester supporters will be saying he loves it here. He will go I reckon but it is interesting to note the fans comments of the holding club and other clubs.

I am not being negative just facing reality with a positive spin. It will not be a fire sale it will be a cashing in on our assets to go again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With such an unfortunate use of phrasing by the OP it's surprising that this thread has now stretched to two pages.

Webber has said more than once that there's no need to sell any player at the moment. Hence a "fire sale" is out of the question.

However, we all know that there is a fair chance that one of our younger a talents may be poached/lured to more lucrative pastures. That's the way it is.

 

Webber's job will be to make sure that: 

1.The maximum value is attached to the sale price, including  winter window loading.

2. That the best possible add-on deals are negotiated.

3. That no player is sold to a relegation rival.

4. That a suitable, nay excellent, replacement is lined up bearing in mind that an experienced rescue act defensive player (eg. T. Hockey style) is lined up without regard to age, potential or any likely sell on value (for once.)

So much has been said about our trio of young defenders being prime for picking by the big boys.

I'm beginning to think that our most valuable asset could well turn out to be young Cantwell. Clearly he's not the finished article yet but his skill, style and swagger seems to be being noticed at the highest of levels MotD (?) and beyond. Furthermore he is a goal scorer/forward.These types always fetch more. I cannot see Pukki wanting a move whatever. His move to Carrow Road seems to have been the making of him. He's obviously well compensated and he's happy/setteld and he's no fool, whilst his place is cemented in the Finnish squad for the next World Cup.

Buendia has problems with temperament to overcome before any likely buyer will value him as highly as we all do. He still has a bit to prove.

Fire sale? No way. Sensible dealings?  ... every chance.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/12/2019 at 08:54, PurpleCanary said:

There won't be a fire sale.

I agree, but that does not mean we wIll not sell. That’s the way it has always been, and that’s the way it will be.

Self funding is a dream, can’t be done in the PL if we intend to stay there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Bradwell canary said:

I agree, but that does not mean we wIll not sell. That’s the way it has always been, and that’s the way it will be.

Self funding is a dream, can’t be done in the PL if we intend to stay there.

It certainly isn't easy, but it IS possible. It's exactly what Burnley are doing at the moment. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×