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CANARYKING

Tin hat on .......

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Ben Godfrey is not a centre  half, the number of headed goals we concede is ridiculous, he can play on the floor and would be much better as a defensive midfielder 

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He's way down the list of dominant central defenders that have graced the yellow over the years.

However, he's young, he's talented, he's classy, he's Rio and he's worth a fortune..

I suppose an interesting poll would be which of the two, him or  Zimbo would you prefer to succumb to a spell out injured should the dreaded happen. 

I'll have to think about that one.

 

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I don't get this. As a young player learning to play in the most difficult league to defend in, probably in the world Godfrey, has only had four games (I think) with an experienced and strong leader beside him in Zimmermann.  He has been fantastic in a lot of his defensive play all season and clearly yesterday's goals were not his fault.  Yes, he has a lot to learn, but he is captain material and is for me one of our best players.  I love watching him play, his speed is brilliant for a defender and you just know attacking players don't get much from him.  The set piece goals are something the whole team needs to work on and singling out Godfrey is just plain wrong.

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3 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Ben Godfrey is not a centre  half, the number of headed goals we concede is ridiculous, he can play on the floor and would be much better as a defensive midfielder 

I expressed reservations about this months ago but was laughed at by posters. Lets just say that Farke has not improved his defensive nous in the 12 months since he got into the team. Whether someone like Mourinhio could is a different matter of course.

Ben has great commitment and pace but always looks best when he powers forward into space. Remember that screamer he scored v Reading? Goal of the season by a country mile for me. Centre backs goal? No way but it was the kind of goal that an athletic, powerful and quick central defensive midfielder could score that's for sure.   

The boy is slow mentally as he ball watches and is seemingly unaware of strikers 'losing' him in the box and then darting in front of him at the near post. Watch an early example of this at West Brom last season when Dwight Gayle scored. Godfrey kept looking at the ball and had no idea that Gayle had just 'peeled away' from him and looked amazed when the ball ended up in the net. In that area I see no improvement. That begs the question - what the hell is Farke and his so called 'coaching staff' doing with Ben's development?? One things for sure, if Allardyce was his manager I bet he would have come on leaps and bounds in his defensive capabilities. Either that or 'Big Sam' would have abandoned the idea that ....'Ben is a potential world class centre back' (Farke quote) and shoved him into midfield where he could break up play and power up the pitch.

There is precisely zero chance of Farke moving him into midfield even if Hanley and Klose were fit as that would be admitting he was wrong and that won't happen. Still God Farke knows best hey???  

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1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said:

I expressed reservations about this months ago but was laughed at by posters. Lets just say that Farke has not improved his defensive nous in the 12 months since he got into the team. Whether someone like Mourinhio could is a different matter of course.

Ben has great commitment and pace but always looks best when he powers forward into space. Remember that screamer he scored v Reading? Goal of the season by a country mile for me. Centre backs goal? No way but it was the kind of goal that an athletic, powerful and quick central defensive midfielder could score that's for sure.   

The boy is slow mentally as he ball watches and is seemingly unaware of strikers 'losing' him in the box and then darting in front of him at the near post. Watch an early example of this at West Brom last season when Dwight Gayle scored. Godfrey kept looking at the ball and had no idea that Gayle had just 'peeled away' from him and looked amazed when the ball ended up in the net. In that area I see no improvement. That begs the question - what the hell is Farke and his so called 'coaching staff' doing with Ben's development?? One things for sure, if Allardyce was his manager I bet he would have come on leaps and bounds in his defensive capabilities. Either that or 'Big Sam' would have abandoned the idea that ....'Ben is a potential world class centre back' (Farke quote) and shoved him into midfield where he could break up play and power up the pitch.

There is precisely zero chance of Farke moving him into midfield even if Hanley and Klose were fit as that would be admitting he was wrong and that won't happen. Still God Farke knows best hey???  

Not a Farke fan then?

Allardyce??! GIVE ME STRENGTH! He would have sold him at the first opportunity and pocketed a percentage of the deal.

Edited by BobLoz3

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1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said:

 

There is precisely zero chance of Farke moving him into midfield even if Hanley and Klose were fit as that would be admitting he was wrong and that won't happen. Still God Farke knows best hey???  

Well, yes, Farke does know best, and testament to that is BvB, Lyon, Spurs and Arsenal are all supposedly interested in Godfrey. 

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2 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Not a Farke fan then?

Allardyce??! GIVE ME STRENGTH! He would have sold him at the first opportunity and pocketed a percentage of the deal. Now go do something else because talking about football is clearly not your strong point.

Instead of chucking insults around how about actually answering the points I made where I gave clear evidence that (in my opinion) Ben has not been developed defensively. 

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1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said:

I expressed reservations about this months ago but was laughed at by posters. Lets just say that Farke has not improved his defensive nous in the 12 months since he got into the team. Whether someone like Mourinhio could is a different matter of course.

Ben has great commitment and pace but always looks best when he powers forward into space. Remember that screamer he scored v Reading? Goal of the season by a country mile for me. Centre backs goal? No way but it was the kind of goal that an athletic, powerful and quick central defensive midfielder could score that's for sure.   

The boy is slow mentally as he ball watches and is seemingly unaware of strikers 'losing' him in the box and then darting in front of him at the near post. Watch an early example of this at West Brom last season when Dwight Gayle scored. Godfrey kept looking at the ball and had no idea that Gayle had just 'peeled away' from him and looked amazed when the ball ended up in the net. In that area I see no improvement. That begs the question - what the hell is Farke and his so called 'coaching staff' doing with Ben's development?? One things for sure, if Allardyce was his manager I bet he would have come on leaps and bounds in his defensive capabilities. Either that or 'Big Sam' would have abandoned the idea that ....'Ben is a potential world class centre back' (Farke quote) and shoved him into midfield where he could break up play and power up the pitch.

There is precisely zero chance of Farke moving him into midfield even if Hanley and Klose were fit as that would be admitting he was wrong and that won't happen. Still God Farke knows best hey???  

I 100% agree with this part of your post.

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31 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Instead of chucking insults around how about actually answering the points I made where I gave clear evidence that (in my opinion) Ben has not been developed defensively. 

This confused statement perfectly sums up your post. You have given AN OPINION. You haven't given us any facts. Please tell us how many defensive headers Godfrey lost yesterday. (I'll give you a clue - it wasn't many). 

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28 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Instead of chucking insults around how about actually answering the points I made where I gave clear evidence that (in my opinion) Ben has not been developed defensively. 

In all honesty mate, I felt bad about writing the last bit hence the editing on my post! You caught it before I edited it, so apologies for that. I'm not one to go around making enemies on here.

Thing is, though, I can't really see any clear evidence in the rest of your post for why Ben hasn't developed defensively.

We all lauded Farke's decision to convert him to a CB. Ok, some people STILL think Ben should be a DM and that's fair enough. In fact, part of the reason they changed him to a CB is that we weren't particularly well stocked in that area but did have decent DM's. In order to get Ben playing, he moved to CB where he did a brilliant job last season. And now there are lots of other teams sniffing around him to sign him as...you guessed it... a CB.

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9 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

This confused statement perfectly sums up your post. You have given AN OPINION. You haven't given us any facts. Please tell us how many defensive headers Godfrey lost yesterday. (I'll give you a clue - it wasn't many). 

I've absolutely no idea how many defensive headers he lost! You clearly do so please enlighten me. One can read what one likes into statistics as you well know.  Example - the chief culprit for the second goal yesterday was (again, in my opinion please note) one Super Mario who totally failed to close down Baldock and allowed him to turn and shoot. Will that end up in any 'statistic' though? No - of course not as he never actually touched the ball by way of misplaced pass etc.  

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24 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

In all honesty mate, I felt bad about writing the last bit hence the editing on my post! You caught it before I edited it, so apologies for that. I'm not one to go around making enemies on here.

Thing is, though, I can't really see any clear evidence in the rest of your post for why Ben hasn't developed defensively.

We all lauded Farke's decision to convert him to a CB. Ok, some people STILL think Ben should be a DM and that's fair enough. In fact, part of the reason they changed him to a CB is that we weren't particularly well stocked in that area but did have decent DM's. In order to get Ben playing, he moved to CB where he did a brilliant job last season. And now there are lots of other teams sniffing around him to sign him as...you guessed it... a CB.

That's OK Bob - no offence taken, I've received worse that's for sure!

Now I'm not saying Ben CAN'T play centre back. He can do a job there, sometimes a more than half decent job as well. My issue is that in some key defensive characteristics, I can't see how he's developed in 12 months first team football. He gets drawn to the ball too easily instead of being aware of where his opponent is. 

There are a host of teams interested (it seems). That does not automatically imply they see him as a centre back though. Example - in the close season following his loan at Shrewsbury there were strong rumours of £5M bids coming in from Watford or Palace for him. Webber slapped a 'Not for Sale' notice on his back and gave him a new contract. He played all that season for Shrewsbury in midfield.     

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The fans, Delia, Webber, Farke and the defenders are all part of the same problem. None of them actually believe in defending. 

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9 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

That's OK Bob - no offence taken, I've received worse that's for sure!

Now I'm not saying Ben CAN'T play centre back. He can do a job there, sometimes a more than half decent job as well. My issue is that in some key defensive characteristics, I can't see how he's developed in 12 months first team football. He gets drawn to the ball too easily instead of being aware of where his opponent is. 

There are a host of teams interested (it seems). That does not automatically imply they see him as a centre back though. Example - in the close season following his loan at Shrewsbury there were strong rumours of £5M bids coming in from Watford or Palace for him. Webber slapped a 'Not for Sale' notice on his back and gave him a new contract. He played all that season for Shrewsbury in midfield.     

Cheers pal! I guess I'm still a bit tetchy after the weekend!

Yes, his versatility is a gift. He may well perform a different role for a different club, if and when he gets sold. But I can't help but think that the larger price tag has come about after his stint at CB.

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6 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

The fans, Delia, Webber, Farke and the defenders are all part of the same problem. None of them actually believe in defending. 

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People forget, this is the premiership, he’s up against world class players each week, to say he’s not developed from last year is laughable.

He’s got lots to learn and this is only his second full season, give the lad a chance. With the likes of Spurs and others seriously looking at the lad, I’d say these scouts have far more knowledge and appreciation of how good Godfrey is than the likes of me or you.

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My understanding is that Ben Godfrey's natural position is central midfielder. I saw him play in that position against Southampton in the FA Cup in January 2017, centrally in front of Bennett and Klose and in my opinion he was comfortably the stand out player for Norwich that night. Such a shame that Klose is not available because my view is that a defensive triangle of Klose and Zimm with Godfrey in front of them would be ideal. That having been said, I think he has performed admirably alongside Zimmermann and it dismays me that such a young, talented and committed Norwich player is the subject of ill thought-out, unconstructive and unhelpful criticism.

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8 minutes ago, Erraticus said:

My understanding is that Ben Godfrey's natural position is central midfielder. I saw him play in that position against Southampton in the FA Cup in January 2017, centrally in front of Bennett and Klose and in my opinion he was comfortably the stand out player for Norwich that night. Such a shame that Klose is not available because my view is that a defensive triangle of Klose and Zimm with Godfrey in front of them would be ideal. That having been said, I think he has performed admirably alongside Zimmermann and it dismays me that such a young, talented and committed Norwich player is the subject of ill thought-out, unconstructive and unhelpful criticism.

Wow - you start off by essentially agreeing with me (on Ben's 'natural' position) but then accuse me (presumably) of a tirade of unwanted criticism. If I have 'criticized' at all it is at Farke who (in my opinion) has done little to address areas in the boys game that I think let him down. Nowhere have I said Ben is 'useless', 'rubbish' etc. You seem to have an issue with what I would deem to be 'constructive' criticism of the boy.

For the record, I was one of the first posters to call for Godfrey to play league games in the season you refer. Both Neil and then Irvine resolutely refused. The rest is history.   

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1 hour ago, yellowrider120 said:

I've absolutely no idea how many defensive headers he lost! You clearly do so please enlighten me. One can read what one likes into statistics as you well know.  Example - the chief culprit for the second goal yesterday was (again, in my opinion please note) one Super Mario who totally failed to close down Baldock and allowed him to turn and shoot. Will that end up in any 'statistic' though? No - of course not as he never actually touched the ball by way of misplaced pass etc.  

I honestly don't recall him losing one yesterday - he might have done at some stage, but my point is that he was actually very good in the air yesterday.

I agree that Vrancic was mainly to blame for their second goal.

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I actually despair sometimes at the lack of ability that some people show to accept that footballers can change position. Footballers are often good enough to change and play in different roles throughout their career and Godfrey could still do a good job at DM without a doubt - but he is specialising as a CB now and it's about time people accepted that.  He was brilliant in that position last season, has been brilliant at times this season.  He has not made many mistakes and yes, he's learning and gaining experience in that role and he will get better at it - but harping back to "ooh but he would be better as a DM" is frankly a bit tiresome. His career has developed and we should go along with that.....he is a brilliant player and could probably play anywhere on the pitch, but he now is a CB ! Get used to it!

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3 hours ago, BobLoz3 said:

Not a Farke fan then?

Allardyce??! GIVE ME STRENGTH! He would have sold him at the first opportunity and pocketed a percentage of the deal.

ALLARDYCE would have sold him!!

He will be sold to the highest bidder soon, for sure, that’s  how the self financing model works!

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12 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

ALLARDYCE would have sold him!!

He will be sold to the highest bidder soon, for sure, that’s  how the self financing model works!

Excellent insight.

Actually. It isn't. We don't need to sell any players this season. It's been said and I believe it.

Of course I understand your point about the self financing model, but I think this is something that we'll have to put up with if we're in the Champs next season. We'll surely sell off some of the better players and we will have to kind of start again.

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14 minutes ago, BobLoz3 said:

Excellent insight.

Actually. It isn't. We don't need to sell any players this season. It's been said and I believe it.

Of course I understand your point about the self financing model, but I think this is something that we'll have to put up with if we're in the Champs next season. We'll surely sell off some of the better players and we will have to kind of start again.

I agree Bob. No we don’t NEED to sell players this season, but you believe what you like, but I think you will find Godfrey’s agent might feel very differently about him dropping a league! Current England U21 Captain etc etc etc. and as Webber states ‘every player has his price’ He is worth 30 million to any prem side at today’s inflated prices, hence the 50m price tag Webber has apparently put on his head.

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13 minutes ago, City 2nd said:

I agree Bob. No we don’t NEED to sell players this season, but you believe what you like, but I think you will find Godfrey’s agent might feel very differently about him dropping a league! Current England U21 Captain etc etc etc. and as Webber states ‘every player has his price’ He is worth 30 million to any prem side at today’s inflated prices, hence the 50m price tag Webber has apparently put on his head.

Sure, but why would we do it without much time to find a replacement? I can see players going next season, but not this. If the rumours of Strandberg on trial are to be believed, I sort of feel that's an additional CB to add into the mix seeing as though Klose is out. Not a replacement for Godfrey as such. Could be wrong!

As other have suggested, could be that he gets sold and loaned back to us for the rest of the season. That might be an option. One that I think most people would be more comfortable with.

I'm not saying I have the right approach here or am even on to the right idea. I just don't see why we'd weaken our team. We need to SIGN players in Jan, not sell.

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Cannot see anyone stumping up £50million , so if that figure is correct he's effectively not for sale. However if someone wants to pay that much for him him then we should sell, for sure, with add on clauses of course, to fully exploit any future success on his part.  Spurs paid Ajax 44 million for Sanchez I believe, and he's not even that great. An Ajax fan I know reckons it is one of the sales of the century so far. Getting anywhere near that figure,let alone a higher one would be some achievement.

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