TeemuVanBasten 3,327 Posted December 8, 2019 If the big idea is to use this season to fund a ground expansion (new City Stand). That would be long term thinking that I could buy into. Would you? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hillhead 114 Posted December 8, 2019 People would complain that the money needs to be invested in the squad but... A) our young side, even if we go down this season would only improve and should be well placed for an assault on promotion with just a couple of changes being made (+any additions next month) B) when you look at how we've filled the ground the last 10 years it's impossible to make a case it's not required and as long as it doesn't throw the club into debt is gaurenteed to pay for itself in the long run. It would also enhance our ability to attract names or whatever for non football events. In not sure when it would happen but If that's what alot of money is being put aside for that would make sense to me. Over the last couple of years we've seen massive upgrades to the training facilities and academy that will benefit the club for decades to come. This is the next step for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Making Plans 936 Posted December 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Hillhead said: People would complain that the money needs to be invested in the squad but... A) our young side, even if we go down this season would only improve and should be well placed for an assault on promotion with just a couple of changes being made (+any additions next month) Why are people obsessed with thinking or hoping that if we go down that we stand a good chance of getting back up. Unless we are prepared to back up promotion with real money invested in the squad then please tell me, WHAT IS THE POINT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,327 Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) Its a big risk to bank on a relegated team being able to come back up Hillhead, because a demoralising relegation is bound to mean that some players lose a bit of belief in themselves and their teammates. It would rely a lot on us being able to keep team spirit, and that's hard if you end up rock bottom and cut adrift getting beat every week. I think those who assume that coming back up at first attempt is going to be easy are very wrong, especially as we'd do very well to keep hold of our players. You can be in the financial position to not to have to sell, but nothing much you can do about it when a player demands a move and you know you won't get 100% from them if you refuse it. People keep talking about 'the model', all I'm saying is that if 'the model' involves operating with a small wage bill and not spending big on agent and transfer fees until we've expanded the stadium to 35,000 then I'd get behind that. If not spending money means we can redevelop Carrow Road with limited borrowing or limited player sales, and it starts in the very near future.... then I think I could justify the lack of transfer business in my head. Edited December 8, 2019 by TeemuVanBasten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hillhead 114 Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) I'd agree with all that (TVB) there's certainly no guarantees but if we do go down (and there's a hell of a long way to go before we cross that bridge no matter how bleak it seems right now) i'd hope we look to do what Burnley did in in making a couple of additions and freshening up the squad a bit. Maybe going off on a tangent a bit but while i have loved seeing Carrow Road full for the last 16 years or so I do worry that we are locking out the fans of the future. Crowds of 31k in a 35k stadium would be no failure in the initial stages and I'd expect growth in the following years with proper pricing strategies/incentives. My first games as a child were in the late 90s and Wikipedia tells me the attandences back then were 14-16k Edited December 8, 2019 by Hillhead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,195 Posted December 8, 2019 Our ground is plenty big enough for what we need. If we are not prepared to invest in players to fill the current one, then there seems little point in building a bigger stand with more seats. To compete at Premier League level needs massive investment and who knows to get us out of the Championship next season probably just as much. If the club doesn't want to invest in players now that's fine by me, but don't expect me to support some scheme to increase capacity by some 5 or 6000 only to see the same old **** crossing the white line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
detroit94 8 Posted December 8, 2019 This is getting to the point where the self funding model leaves Farke without the means to carry out his job. If we keep a 27000 capacity we keep a demand and people will renew their season tickets for fear of exclusion if the ground is 32000 or more then the incentive to renew is removed. I am starting to feel we as ST holders are being taken for mugs - excluded from away tickets, taken for granted at home and having to watch a good young manager create a team on no budget whatsoever. It's like trying to plait sawdust what we are asking him to do. Watching us is becoming predictable and painful but we still do it but for how much longer can we put up with this ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HertsCanary93 222 Posted December 8, 2019 52 minutes ago, Making Plans said: Why are people obsessed with thinking or hoping that if we go down that we stand a good chance of getting back up. Unless we are prepared to back up promotion with real money invested in the squad then please tell me, WHAT IS THE POINT? I have to agree with this... Going down would cost us most/all of our best young players. Footballers have short careers and want to achieve success. You don't make it to a professional level without a strong mental desire to be a winner. If any established premier league team fancies one of our youngsters in the event we go down, you can bet good money they will be off. The decision not to bring in support for the best batch of young talent I've seen come through the club, will likely see us lose them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,327 Posted December 8, 2019 The only reason we can achieve gates of 25K-27K every week and have 20k-22k season ticket holders across the top two divisions, and at least 23k in the third tier, is because we had the spare capacity (supply) to run incentives for years to create the demand of the future. The problem with the current situation, as Hillhead points out, is that we're locking out fans of the future and I fast forward 10 years and you may find that demand starts to drop. Its the same argument that remainers have when they argue that a lot of Brexit voters are dead now (although I find that personally a very offensive thing to say, it is true). Also, people were saying that we wouldn't fill the Jarrold when we built it. Not only did we (very quickly) fill it..... we've had to squeeze in more seats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JF 694 Posted December 8, 2019 If var continues to **** the game up then the current stadium may be too big! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777 Posted December 9, 2019 I'd buy into it 100%, but I'm sceptical as to whether it will happen. This talk has been going on for over a decade and nothing ever comes of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feedthewolf 4,844 Posted December 9, 2019 Personally, I'd look to create demand by not selling new season tickets when current ones are not renewed. Having a slightly larger number of casual tickets would increase the opportunities for new fans to come and watch the club, while still guaranteeing a good income through season tickets. Even if we capped it at 20,000, that would leave 4,000 casual tickets for each match (or more if the full away allocation is not taken). Given the huge disparity between matchday income and TV income, this seems a sounder strategy than investing many millions expanding the stadium. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary 1 Posted December 9, 2019 14 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: If the big idea is to use this season to fund a ground expansion (new City Stand). That would be long term thinking that I could buy into. Would you? We'll have to stay in the Premiershi[p a few seasons before we invest in City stand to increase Capacity to 30K + Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,283 Posted December 9, 2019 The issue will come with relegation we’ll need to adjust budgets to come in line with the FFP, I can’t see our owners risking all on instant promotion, so could seriously see our higher earners offloaded to ensure finances are balanced even with the parachute payments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCFC198 2 Posted December 9, 2019 No point in increasing the stadium by a few thousand. There are two reasons for this. It won’t generate enough income. Remember the big clubs get most of their money from TV / Sponsorship and rich owners. Another 5k in the stadium is a drop in the ocean. The actual fans in the stadium are becoming less and less important to the elite clubs. Fans in Asia / Africa etc, those that buy the merchandise are just as, if not more important. We can’t compete. Secondly, the season before last (before we got good again), demand fell and for the first time in years season tickets were available and casual seats were much more readily available. Lots of stories that spare season tickets could not be given away for the odd game to friends - I know this for a fact. I find it quite amusing that so many Norwich fans have the opinion that the Championship is better than the Prem, it clearly isn’t. The standard is nowhere near. And those that believe it will be a repeat of last year to get again are deluded and have very short memories. The Championship is a graveyard. Its only fun when you are winning, the games are not exciting when you have nothing to play – remember thrashing Reading 7-1 a few seasons ago? Yeah it was relatively entertaining at the time, but at the end of the day it counted for nothing. Compare that to the two games against Bristol last season for instance, much closer yet so much more enjoyable because we were playing for something. It’s a tough old league and can drag you into it for years and years. So I will say it, this is a wasted opportunity, and in hindsight, we have left the manager and the squad exposed. Its such a shame. The bored is one thing. But I wish all our fans had some ambition and desire for us to be an established prem team. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
City 2nd 191 Posted December 9, 2019 20 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: Its a big risk to bank on a relegated team being able to come back up Hillhead, because a demoralising relegation is bound to mean that some players lose a bit of belief in themselves and their teammates. It would rely a lot on us being able to keep team spirit, and that's hard if you end up rock bottom and cut adrift getting beat every week. I think those who assume that coming back up at first attempt is going to be easy are very wrong, especially as we'd do very well to keep hold of our players. You can be in the financial position to not to have to sell, but nothing much you can do about it when a player demands a move and you know you won't get 100% from them if you refuse it. People keep talking about 'the model', all I'm saying is that if 'the model' involves operating with a small wage bill and not spending big on agent and transfer fees until we've expanded the stadium to 35,000 then I'd get behind that. If not spending money means we can redevelop Carrow Road with limited borrowing or limited player sales, and it starts in the very near future.... then I think I could justify the lack of transfer business in my head. Those players will not only lose belief, but they have been on prem salaries and will not want to be going backwards because as sure as eggs are eggs the contracts they are on will have a relegation clause et al Mr Webber. They have too to remain financially stable. many of those young players, Godfrey, Cantwell, Aaron’s, Lewis all internationals in their own right, won’t want to be back in the championship! Annadou’s club want 8 million for his transfer - relegation will knock that on the head. Tettey will move on to retirement, and I would hazard a guess that several others will look at their futures as not being with Norwich City. I agree, no guarantees at all that promotion will once again take place. In fact maybe the exact opposite. As a result crowds drop off big time. What happens then to a bigger ground over team investment! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Woodman 92 Posted December 9, 2019 Realistically, if we go down, players like Godfrey, Lewis, Aarons, Buendia, Leitner, Pukki will be tempted to leave. Possibly Cantwell and Hernandez as well. Klose, Tettey, Amadou, Fahrmann are also likely to go or be allowed to leave. Take more than 8 of those 12 out of the current squad and we certainly wouldn't be having 'a good chance' to go up again! We'd be rich though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaberry2 550 Posted December 9, 2019 Ive got no interest in adding to the existing stadium until we can compete regularly at the highest level. So that might be some time... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
