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Half Ar5ed Hipster

Sour grapes

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Wilder has been citing his displeasure with VAR after Sheff Utd losing last night to a fairly mediocre Newcastle.

Now we all know Mr Wilder doesn't like losing (busgate anyone??) but I'm interested in his opinion about VAR.

Is Mr Wilder right, is VAR ruining football? Or has he just a case of sour grapes after his teams unbeaten run??

I personally think it's a first season where it'll encounter many teething troubles, with a bit of time I feel it can establish itself. Equally, I think less is more sometimes and if it fkd off after this season I wouldn't lose sleep...

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VAR will take some getting used to, and people don't like change. Sure, it needs some refinement, but in the cold light of day there are fewer demonstrably wrong decisions than there were without it. It was horrible having that euphoria from Krul's penalty save wiped out, but once people get used to it it'll be less annoying than it is now. Rightly or wrongly, it's here to stay.

As for Wilder, he's a great manager who's done a brilliant job and has eaten a lot of humble pie since 'that game' at Bramall Lane. No ill-feeling here. However, for all the moaning about Shelvey's goal, what's the first rule of football? Play to the whistle. If a team of under-8s did that their manager would be livid.

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1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

However, for all the moaning about Shelvey's goal, what's the first rule of football? Play to the whistle. If a team of under-8s did that their manager would be livid.

Said exactly that to my binner friend at work today, although I was a little more generous as I said u12s. And to be pedantic, I don't think the offside rule applies at u8! 😉, Well not over here anyway where kids of that age play round robin tournaments, where scores are not recorded and good play is encouraged as much as goals. Although one team, with an inexperienced parent/ coach( never a good idea imo) sent a " match report " to the local paper, naming scores and scorers! He did get the pi$$ taken at next coaches meeting, poor lad.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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You should certainly play to the whistle, something that is taught in many sports from a young age....but to be fair to Wilder I was under the impression that linesmen were meant to keep their flags down.  

Things are certainly taking a while to bed down and if we aren’t careful var is going to be blamed for spoiling the game when it is all too often its poor application...if poor refs are interpreting what’s going on they’ll still make poor decisions.

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6 hours ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

Wilder has been citing his displeasure with VAR after Sheff Utd losing last night to a fairly mediocre Newcastle.

Now we all know Mr Wilder doesn't like losing (busgate anyone??) but I'm interested in his opinion about VAR.

Is Mr Wilder right, is VAR ruining football? Or has he just a case of sour grapes after his teams unbeaten run??

I personally think it's a first season where it'll encounter many teething troubles, with a bit of time I feel it can establish itself. Equally, I think less is more sometimes and if it fkd off after this season I wouldn't lose sleep...

It’s ruining live football.

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6 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

VAR will take some getting used to, and people don't like change. Sure, it needs some refinement, but in the cold light of day there are fewer demonstrably wrong decisions than there were without it. It was horrible having that euphoria from Krul's penalty save wiped out, but once people get used to it it'll be less annoying than it is now. Rightly or wrongly, it's here to stay.

As for Wilder, he's a great manager who's done a brilliant job and has eaten a lot of humble pie since 'that game' at Bramall Lane. No ill-feeling here. However, for all the moaning about Shelvey's goal, what's the first rule of football? Play to the whistle. If a team of under-8s did that their manager would be livid.

I agree completely about both Wilder and VAR.

As for last night's decision, he can't complain too much, as the decision to allow the goal was clearly the correct one: no Newcastle player was offside at any time. The gripe about the assistant raising his flag is understandable, however.

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6 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

It’s ruining live football.

As in at games in the stadium as opposed to the tv version for which it's added entertainment...

They can...

The shine don't sun stick where it

Something like that anyway.

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The way VAR is being used is bordering on ridiculous, no, scrap that, it is just ridiculous. All it has given us in an extra layer of bad or controversial decisions which are made worse because they are remote from the game.  Doing more harm than good imo.

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7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The way VAR is being used is bordering on ridiculous, no, scrap that, it is just ridiculous. All it has given us in an extra layer of bad or controversial decisions which are made worse because they are remote from the game.  Doing more harm than good imo.

Ahem to that.. bin it. End of...

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Doesn't matter if we have VAR/just a referee/8 officials pitchside/an android built solely to referee games to the letter of the law or an omnipotent deity in charge of proceedings, at this level we will ALWAYS get the short end of the stick when it comes to decisions whether it's against the big clubs or our rivals. 

 

This is just one of the facts of life, one of natures hard unbreakable laws, we're all born, we all die, the earth is round and NCFC do not get a fair shake from officials in the PL. No point in any of us giving it any thought anymore. I couldn't care less whether we have VAR or not, it won't make any difference to us. 

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It had the potential do be a very good tool used correctly, now it’s a farce not needed. Do away with it.

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The question for me is whether or not the officials in this country are capable of using it as it is meant to be.

Presently, referees are essentially becoming superfluous aside from relaying the VAR decisions onto the players. Officials are more than happy to wash their hands of any criticism and let VAR make any call they don't feel confident in making, which has led to this micro-management bean-counting version of VAR we're lumbered with.

It was my understanding that the referee was still judge Judy and executioner, VAR could advise that the wrong call might have been made thus allowing the ref to double check his own work- and be confident in doing so. On pretty much every occasion, it hasn't worked that way.

In terms of Wilder, hes just grumpy at his own players. Players should now know to keep playing.

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Takes enjoyment and euphoria and instantaneous emotion away from the fans that bother to actually go to games, without seemingly removing bias and subjectivity. Get rid.

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I have no problem with VAR in theory,  however it's not being implemented how we were sold it. It was for clear and obvious errors, not someone being offside by a kneecap and the like.

The delivery of it at grounds is awful, with the paying public not having any ideas what's being reviewed and why var decisions have gone the way they have. Just show it on the screens. (And insist they have screens at ALL grounds, as Anfield and old Trafford currently dont). As for goal line technology etc, when clubs get promoted they have to have a certain standard. It should be like the rugby, with refs micd up and saying what he is looking for, then roll the footage, and go from there.

If I'm at the ground I should have to rely on getting info from elsewhere (bbc/sky/Twitter) to know what's going on. 

Re Shelvey's goal, yes play to the whistle, and I'd have been gutted to conceed a goal like that, but why have linesman (assistants) there if they dont add value. 

And why dont the refs use the pitch side monitors, even once in a while? That's crazy.

For me I'd get rid, as yes its ironed out some things, but introduced others. 

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The offside by a toenail thing is totally crazy, as when the ball is being passed to the offside player, it is impossible to say exactly when the ball leaves the foot.  If they are going to be forensic about it they have to combine the forensic analysis to both the player judged offside and the player who is passing the ball.

The old rule, which was supposed to give the attacker the benefit of the doubt was much better.

 

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26 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

I have no problem with VAR in theory,  however it's not being implemented how we were sold it. It was for clear and obvious errors, not someone being offside by a kneecap and the like.

The delivery of it at grounds is awful, with the paying public not having any ideas what's being reviewed and why var decisions have gone the way they have. Just show it on the screens. (And insist they have screens at ALL grounds, as Anfield and old Trafford currently dont). As for goal line technology etc, when clubs get promoted they have to have a certain standard. It should be like the rugby, with refs micd up and saying what he is looking for, then roll the footage, and go from there.

If I'm at the ground I should have to rely on getting info from elsewhere (bbc/sky/Twitter) to know what's going on. 

Re Shelvey's goal, yes play to the whistle, and I'd have been gutted to conceed a goal like that, but why have linesman (assistants) there if they dont add value. 

And why dont the refs use the pitch side monitors, even once in a while? That's crazy.

For me I'd get rid, as yes its ironed out some things, but introduced others. 

This is the part I don’t understand. It happened in international football, why not in the PL? Otherwise you have two people judging an incident, whose starting point going in may not be the same. I’m sure the ref would have stood by his decision about the Godfrey penalty in the Man U game even if he had watched it again for five minutes, as the VAR official did.

 

Plus, what happened to the “clear and obvious” part of the description of VAR? We now have offside decisions (and penalty box encroachment) decided on a hair’s breadth. For me, if it’s marginal, they should go with the footballing equivalent of “umpire’s call” in cricket, and let the original decision stand.

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11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

As in at games in the stadium as opposed to the tv version for which it's added entertainment...

They can...

The shine don't sun stick where it

Something like that anyway.

Yes I mean at the stadium. Sat there you have  Absolutely no idea what why or when? Apparently the English refs are one of the few to refuse the pitch side monitor. Of course if you had one and saw the ref run across to it (or in Hoopers case waddle) you would at least have some idea . 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

The offside by a toenail thing is totally crazy, as when the ball is being passed to the offside player, it is impossible to say exactly when the ball leaves the foot.  If they are going to be forensic about it they have to combine the forensic analysis to both the player judged offside and the player who is passing the ball.

The old rule, which was supposed to give the attacker the benefit of the doubt was much better.

 

I’m afraid that where ever you draw the line, and for offside there must be a line , you will always have close decisions . The technology is the issue not the decision. 

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I’m going to sound like a cracked record (there’s one for the teenagers) but it is the interpretation and use made of the system by the Referees that is at massive fault . Only having four “automatic” referrals is a nonsense . They refer penalty decisions which includes “no penalty” as we saw against Man Utd. But what “automatic” system causes the review? An appeal by Ashley Young obviously , but what else ? 
 

So if VAR can review no penalty , and therefore by definition be constantly reviewing everything that happens in the box , what’s happened to the pens for holding by defenders that was one of the excellent uses in the World Cup? 
 

It’s a good idea, terribly implemented by arrogance . 

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As in at games in the stadium as opposed to the tv version for which it's added entertainment...

They can...

The shine don't sun stick where it

Something like that anyway.

Doesn't make it any easier watching it on the TV Double N. I still wear my shirt, leap up and down and frighten the dog and share the same emotions. Of course we get to see the replays etc but that can make it even worse when you believe you have been unfortunate to have Ray Charles in the booth.
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23 hours ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

Wilder has been citing his displeasure with VAR after Sheff Utd losing last night to a fairly mediocre Newcastle.

Now we all know Mr Wilder doesn't like losing (busgate anyone??) but I'm interested in his opinion about VAR.

Is Mr Wilder right, is VAR ruining football? Or has he just a case of sour grapes after his teams unbeaten run??

I personally think it's a first season where it'll encounter many teething troubles, with a bit of time I feel it can establish itself. Equally, I think less is more sometimes and if it fkd off after this season I wouldn't lose sleep...

Seems to me the problem is how VAR is being run, not VAR itself. And the time it’s taking to make decisions is sucking the lifeblood from the game!

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Just watched Everton v Chelsea and another point occured to me. 

How can / why do the commentators know the outcome of var reviews before they are announced at the ground?

I remember the days when tv covered what was happening at the ground, now they are too integral to it. 

Can the TV companies can hear the ref / var conversations? 

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Re a point made earlier, correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think pitch side monitors were being used anywhere anytime in the PL but was a consideration for the future.

At the moment the ref is not given the opportunity to uphold or revoke their initial decision, which means a lot of the time they are being made to look stupid by a camera/computer that is reviewing decisions by the millimetre. I don't have a problem with VAR deciding on clear and obvious errors but the equivalent of the 'forensic evidence' currently being used is quite frankly ridiculous.

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Even bigger issue is comment raised on BBC today.  There are now two sets of rules being applied internationally in the big leagues.  This is a ridiculous situation.  VAR seems to work better abroad, but no the ENGLISH Premier Lesgue arrogantly applies something different than the rest of the world.  Worse than Brexit 😉

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Watching the Manchester Derby currently, United have just had the first non-penalty call rectified by VAR into a penalty to go 1-0 up. 

It is the right call, sure, but again the referee is superfluous- he's basically the guy that tells us what VAR has decided.

Come on, refs- show a bit of bravery, go review the footage yourself and use the technology like it was meant to be.

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