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It distracted me on my small screen with a slightly blurred picture.

I must have been looking at the "crowd ball" in the end as was unaware of the "goal" until I heard the commentary.

In truth the lino should have flagged the minute that second ball came on to the field of play and from that point the game should have been stopped.

In a game marred by controversy regarding the letter of the law, the above is the letter of the law even though the second ball probably  made no difference to the outcome  ... possibly in the same way that Aarons' encroachment probably made no difference either.

Same principle, two differing decisions with both favouring Arsenal.

Also, rarely have I seen Farke so angry. He is usually quite unmoved by decisions ... compared to most mangers that is.

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Strange that our players were distracted by a ball that they didn't see and not distracted by the goalscorer who was stood on his own in our penalty area. 

Presumably they didn't him see either.

Also strange that the highlights, which were available an hour ago, appear to have been removed from the NCFC Youtube Channel

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Are people really upset by the game not being restarted for the second ball? Really? That is some level of straw clutching! 

All I’ll say is imagine how incredibly unfair it would’ve been if we were about to score at the emirates, but it was disallowed because one of their fans threw a ball on to an inconsequential area of the pitch after initially holding on to it and wasting time? 

And FWIW I don’t think we can feel too put out about the encroachment either, the ref made it clear pre-penalty, Aarons was clearly in the box and first to it. That he would’ve made it there first anyway without the encroachment is irrelevant to the decision unfortunately, you could say that about any marginal offside ‘he would’ve got there first anyway’ etc. It would be a very confusing way to make decisions.. 

Think we all need to take off our yellow and green glasses and calm down a bit.

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33 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I was shouting at the TV that it was stupid and that Arsenal would probably score as a result of it. They did. If you disrupt players' concentration even for a second it can affect the team adversely.

The time between the "other" ball appearing and the real ball hitting the back of the net was 3 seconds so you must have lightening reactions LDC to notice the ball and shout at the TV.

The players concentration was not disrupted, even for a second, because they didn't see it.

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1 minute ago, Making Plans said:
37 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I was shouting at the TV that it was stupid and that Arsenal would probably score as a result of it. They did. If you disrupt players' concentration even for a second it can affect the team adversely.

The time between the "other" ball appearing and the real ball hitting the back of the net was 3 seconds so you must have lightening reactions LDC to notice the ball and shout at the TV.

The players concentration was not disrupted, even for a second, because they didn't see it.

Duh. I was shouting for them to stop holding on to the ball, not for throwing it back when they did.

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12 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Just curious,

 

Whats the alternative?

 

Fans the throw the ball back to the opposition as fast as possible?

So you’re saying there isn’t a middle ground between holding on to the ball for 45 seconds until a new ball is found, and immediately throwing the ball back as fast as possible?

How fast do you drive to work in the morning, at 4mph or 74mph? 

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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"Are people really upset by the game not being restarted for the second ball? Really? That is some level of straw clutching!2

 

No! That wasn't my point and i'm not particularly upset either. It was a fair goal. This is a discussion not a "we wos robbed" issue.

The letter of the law was applied to the encroachment issue, it was not applied to the 'two balls incident.' That's all. Both outcomes were unfavourable to NCFC on the day. Perhaps on another day such decisions might go in our favour, however there has to be some credence in the view that these crucial decisions often favour the big clubs as this has been a (very) long and a (very) consistent  beef of many City supporters. It's not just that a bit of bias is obviously involved, it's been a predictable complaint for years, sometimes with more justification (Simon Hooper,) sometimes with less, like yesterday.

 

 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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45 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Duh. I was shouting for them to stop holding on to the ball, not for throwing it back when they did.

If I see Krul in the week I will show him your post as when we are ahead or when we are under a bit of pressure ( both applied at that time yesterday ) he actively encourages the crowd to keep the ball. There was even one incident last year when he got in a bit of trouble for getting it back in again.

I will let him know you disapprove. 

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I'm fairly certain that the fans' antics with the ball were at least partly responsible for the lack of concentration at the corner. It was pretty poor defending and definitely would have been *someone's* job to pick up the free man at the far post. When there's an unusual situation and a delay, players can switch off for a moment and be a bit slow to react. In any case, if the ball had been thrown back on 5 seconds earlier, the corner would have been delayed so it was definitely poor timing.

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Let's be honest, had an Arsenal fan lobbed a ball onto the pitch when Pukki was lining up his shot for the first goal and the referee disallowed it, we'd be absolutely furious.

Idiots throwing balls onto the pitch in order to stop the game when their team is in danger shouldn't be rewarded, or teams/subs/fans would do it all the time and the game would become a farce. The ref was right to ignore it.

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1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Let's be honest, had an Arsenal fan lobbed a ball onto the pitch when Pukki was lining up his shot for the first goal and the referee disallowed it, we'd be absolutely furious.

Idiots throwing balls onto the pitch in order to stop the game when their team is in danger shouldn't be rewarded, or teams/subs/fans would do it all the time and the game would become a farce. The ref was right to ignore it.

He didn’t ignore it. His claim as to why he did not stop the game was because he didn’t see it ( nor did the Video Assistant to Relegate smaller teams ). I agree however that if he had done that it would just encourage somebody next week to copycat. 

As I said earlier however the keeping of the ball ( not the throwing it back like that ) when we are ahead or under pressure is actively encouraged by Krul and is part of our game management when at home. It happened many times last year where the game was interrupted by the Riverend and that did not seem to effect us. My understanding was that ball only came on after the ball was on its way to the goal scorer and consequently on the other side of the pitch.

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

He didn’t ignore it. His claim as to why he did not stop the game was because he didn’t see it ( nor did the Video Assistant to Relegate smaller teams ). I agree however that if he had done that it would just encourage somebody next week to copycat. 

As I said earlier however the keeping of the ball ( not the throwing it back like that ) when we are ahead or under pressure is actively encouraged by Krul and is part of our game management when at home. It happened many times last year where the game was interrupted by the Riverend and that did not seem to effect us. My understanding was that ball only came on after the ball was on its way to the goal scorer and consequently on the other side of the pitch.

Keeping the ball to slow the game down is a valid tactic, I agree. Throwing the ball onto the pitch to stop the game during play is not, and this is something we seriously need to nip in the bud before fans start getting ideas.

And the fact that nobody saw it- players included- is exactly why play shouldn't have been stopped.

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1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

"Are people really upset by the game not being restarted for the second ball? Really? That is some level of straw clutching!2

 

No! That wasn't my point and i'm not particularly upset either. It was a fair goal. This is a discussion not a "we wos robbed" issue.

The letter of the law was applied to the encroachment issue, it was not applied to the 'two balls incident.' That's all. Both outcomes were unfavourable to NCFC on the day. Perhaps on another day such decisions might go in our favour, however there has to be some credence in the view that these crucial decisions often favour the big clubs as this has been a (very) long and a (very) consistent  beef of many City supporters. It's not just that a bit of bias is obviously involved, it's been a predictable complaint for years, sometimes with more justification (Simon Hooper,) sometimes with less, like yesterday.

 

 

You appear to be suggesting that the letter of the law was deliberately ignored and then abided by because both times it favoured Arsenal, I disagree and believe it is more due to the significance and impact that both instances led to on the pitch. Each instance is far too different to be directly compared like this IMO.

Not every rule in football is applied in an equally rigid manner. Take the yellow card rule for defending players kicking the ball away after a stop in play for example, this is only really applied when the ball is fully booted anyway, and oppositions players regularly get away with small dosages of dissent. Your comparison is like saying 'well Xhaka should've got booked for kicking the ball away' when he kicked it 4 yards away, to claim unjust treatment when one of our players gets booked for something separately such as diving or a cynical challenge. The two instances just don't stack up to me I'm afraid.

Do you think if both situations happened at opposite ends of the pitch, our missed penalty would not be retaken for encroachment when an offending Arsenal defender reached it first, and our second half goal would be disallowed for two balls being on the pitch when an Arsenal fan threw one on to an insignificant area of the pitch? I don't.

The big club v little club is a separate issue and I do agree with this to an extent overall, but not in the case of yesterday.

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler
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7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Keeping the ball to slow the game down is a valid tactic, I agree. Throwing the ball onto the pitch to stop the game during play is not, and this is something we seriously need to nip in the bud before fans start getting ideas.

And the fact that nobody saw it- players included- is exactly why play shouldn't have been stopped.

Quite strange how fans react different. Arsenal see it as a very controversial decision not stopping the game. What I was getting at was it shouldn’t have effected our concentration waiting to get the ball back as this is a tactic we use at home. This is what the op is now implying that the fans holding onto the ball was the problem. I would see it as no different to if it was a corner to us and we were losing 2-1 I would expect the ball to come back super quick. Had the players seen the ball come onto the pitch I think our players would have surrounded the referee once the goal was scored. Think we have the same opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

You appear to be suggesting that the letter of the law was deliberately ignored and then abided by because both times it favoured Arsenal, I disagree and believe it is more due to the significance and impact that both instances led to on the pitch. Each instance is far too different to be directly compared like this IMO.

Not every rule in football is applied in an equally rigid manner. Take the yellow card rule for defending players kicking the ball away after a stop in play for example, this is only really applied when the ball is fully booted anyway, and oppositions players regularly get away with small dosages of dissent. Your comparison is like saying 'well Xhaka should've got booked for kicking the ball away' when he kicked it 4 yards away, to claim unjust treatment when one of our players gets booked for something separately such as diving or a cynical challenge. The two instances just don't stack up to me I'm afraid.

Do you think if both situations happened at opposite ends of the pitch, our missed penalty would not be retaken for encroachment when an offending Arsenal defender reached it first, and our second half goal would be disallowed for two balls being on the pitch when an Arsenal fan threw one on to an insignificant area of the pitch? I don't.

The big club v little club is a separate issue and I do agree with this to an extent overall, just not in the case of yesterday.

Surely this is the problem with the Video Assistant to Relegate smaller teams interpretation and not allowing us to know what’s going on. The referee has admitted that he did not see the second ball on the pitch and subsequently did not stop the game. Strangely the VAR didn’t see it either. As shown with the encroachment the EPL are throwing in their own rules and interpretations. The actual rule says nothing about wether you clear the ball it says you are not allowed in the eighteen yard box prior to the ball being kicked. Therefore the Arsenal player was clearly encroaching.

I am not saying the goal should have been disallowed ( although Arsenal fans are amazed the game wasn’t stopped ) what I am saying is that it should be fact based and not subject to interpretation. One week one thing is given the next week with exactly the same incident it isn’t. 

Are you not beginning to feel the atmosphere disappear when a goal is scored as you no longer know if it’s a goal ?. I was a supporter of this technology but I am afraid it is causing more problems than referees making decisions that were occasionally wrong. VAR is completely rewriting the rule book. I don’t want to celebrate a goal 2 minutes after it happened, part of the entertainment is the immediate reaction to what’s happened.

 

 

 

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I think VAR is becoming one of those 'be careful what you wish for' thingy's.......

 

Incidentally, since the onset/start of our campaign in the Premiership this August.....Can anyone actually recall where a VAR decision has gone our way, has done us a decision favour - or been used to our advantage......?

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1 minute ago, Mello Yello said:

I think VAR is becoming one of those 'be careful what you wish for' thingy's.......

 

Incidentally, since the onset/start of our campaign in the Premiership this August.....Can anyone actually recall where a VAR decision has gone our way, has done us a decision favour - or been used to our advantage......?

Penalties not given to West Ham (Trybull on Haller) and Burnley (Godfrey on Barnes) are two that instantly spring to mind. Admittedly we were already losing 2-0 in those games and they were both near the end of the match, so they didn't really change anything, but they were two obvious fouls that the VAR Didn't act on.

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1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Penalties not given to West Ham (Trybull on Haller) and Burnley (Godfrey on Barnes) are two that instantly spring to mind. Admittedly we were already losing 2-0 in those games and they were both near the end of the match, so they didn't really change anything, but they were two obvious fouls that the VAR Didn't act on.

Ta......

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I dont understand why the idiot didnt throw the ball back when they saw another ball being put down by ozil for the corner. It annoyed me let alone the arsenal players. Was no need to hold it for that long. And yes I think it did contribute to the goal, arsenal looked more motivated to score from that set piece. Well mustafi did in particular 

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The reason I want to have a go at the 'child' is that they mistimed their throwing of the ball and weren't accurate enough. If they had thrown it two seconds earlier and thrown it in the middle of the area not the edge then everybody would have seen it and the Arsenal 'goal' probably would have been chalked off. 😉 😉

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3 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

So you’re saying there isn’t a middle ground between holding on to the ball for 45 seconds until a new ball is found, and immediately throwing the ball back as fast as possible?

How fast do you drive to work in the morning, at 4mph or 74mph? 

I drive to work the speed in which I am guided,

 

Last time I went to a football match there was no such guide as to how long fans should hold on to a ball for?

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3 hours ago, Making Plans said:

Strange that our players were distracted by a ball that they didn't see and not distracted by the goalscorer who was stood on his own in our penalty area. 

Presumably they didn't him see either.

Also strange that the highlights, which were available an hour ago, appear to have been removed from the NCFC Youtube Channel

Exactly. Good performance though. Confidence seems to be returning.

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7 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

I think VAR is becoming one of those 'be careful what you wish for' thingy's.......

 

Incidentally, since the onset/start of our campaign in the Premiership this August.....Can anyone actually recall where a VAR decision has gone our way, has done us a decision favour - or been used to our advantage......?

Who knows but that winner by Leicester against Everton which was not ruled out by VAR may have worked in our favour come May. VAR works in mysterious ways.

Having reviewed the highlights VAR was spot on with the penalty and the encroachment. So no complaints there.

I'm more concerned with our continued inability to deal with crosses and corners.

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7 hours ago, CDMullins said:

I drive to work the speed in which I am guided,

Last time I went to a football match there was no such guide as to how long fans should hold on to a ball for?

I think the guide is called "common sense"

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In the same way there is the "letter" of the law, and the "spirt" of the law. The latter is what we all understand, and react to, the former unfortunately is what has to be written down, hence we rely on the "judgment" of the referee assisted by linesmen to administer the law. 

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13 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I think the guide is called "common sense"

Trouble is, common sense is not that common these days

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