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canarydan23

Complete Bulls***

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Normally I'd have come away pleased with a point v Arsenal; yes they're in bad form but they're still 8th in the Prem with a transfer and wage budget beaten only by 4 or 5 teams in the land. 

But it's sickening tonight. Zimmermann was pushed prior to the handball, yes a few players were marginally in the box, but it was not obvious enough to be spotted at the time and b*llocks was VAR bought in to stop the heinous crime of encroachment. Aubamayang handballed in the build up to the corner that their second goal came from; pre-var it is given but now they wait and as they didn't score in that phase it is allowed to slide. But you can bet your b*llocks to a barn dance the ref blows or lino flags of it was a Norwich hand that touches the ball. 

VAR was bought in because refs were top sh*t, yet they've put it in the hands of the people who have made it necessary. It needs to be triggered by coaches or captains and operated by people who've never been given a whistle before. 

It's actually made things easier for big clubs, I'd hoped it would level the playing field. 

Total bulls*it, I didn't watch a sporting spectacle today. 

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Having been at the game it will be interesting to see what the "red card" review was about at the end. Should the second Arsenal goal have stood given there were two balls on the pitch. Personally I have no issue with the pen/encroachment, but I would be interested to see if we should have had a penalty late on in the game.........

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Sorry but Zimmerman made a meal out of nothing for me and his arm should never been up like that, was unfortunately a pen.

Im in two minds on the retake, it felt **** as players encroach on every penalty taken in the game but he was first to the rebound and why have the rules if they aren’t enforced. Just feels harsh because usually it wouldn’t have been retaken.

Edited by Monty13
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2 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Having been at the game it will be interesting to see what the "red card" review was about at the end. Should the second Arsenal goal have stood given there were two balls on the pitch. Personally I have no issue with the pen/encroachment, but I would be interested to see if we should have had a penalty late on in the game.........

The second ball was thrown on just before the goal and didn’t affect play, we would have been mad if we had scored and a goal had been disallowed for that, was the right decision.

The red card check was the clash of heads between McClean and Kolasinac (I think), it wasn’t a penalty, no handball.

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7 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

The second ball was thrown on just before the goal and didn’t affect play, we would have been mad if we had scored and a goal had been disallowed for that, was the right decision.

The red card check was the clash of heads between McClean and Kolasinac (I think), it wasn’t a penalty, no handball.

Oh, it didn't affect the play, OK then. And Krul would never have saved the penalty if it wasn't for Aarons being a foot inside the box, as defenders are for every penalty since the days of Adam and ****ing Eve. 

And if you're getting **** about the rules that sideshow Bob lookalike has his hand almost on Zimmermann's tackle, without that push he doesn't handball, a foul by the letter of the law but not given else you'd give twenty a game. Likewise you don't give encroachment because they'd never be a saved penalty ever again. You know 100% that if the tables were turned then we don't get a penalty retake. 

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13 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Having been at the game it will be interesting to see what the "red card" review was about at the end. 

I'm guessing that would be when Kolasinac pushed his head into McLean.

As for the penalty, I'm not sure we can have any complaints with the application of the rules. It was a penalty: Zimmermann was nudged slightly but it wasn't a foul, and he had no business putting his hand in the air like that. As for the encroachment, well, those are the rules. The only bit that rankles is the consistency, because I'm sure that another VAR on another day wouldnt have picked up on it.

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2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Oh, it didn't affect the play, OK then. And Krul would never have saved the penalty if it wasn't for Aarons being a foot inside the box, as defenders are for every penalty since the days of Adam and ****ing Eve. 

And if you're getting **** about the rules that sideshow Bob lookalike has his hand almost on Zimmermann's tackle, without that push he doesn't handball, a foul by the letter of the law but not given else you'd give twenty a game. Likewise you don't give encroachment because they'd never be a saved penalty ever again. You know 100% that if the tables were turned then we don't get a penalty retake. 

I think you need to take a breath and relax, it was frustrating but the decisions weren’t the wrong ones.

I do wish VAR would die already though.

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6 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I think you need to take a breath and relax, it was frustrating but the decisions weren’t the wrong ones.

I do wish VAR would die already though.

Zimmermann was nudged. It was a foul. You're either **** with the application of the rules for the full 90 minutes or not at all. 

And Aubamayang handballs it the build up to their corner. Again, a softer approach to the rules taken when it affects an Arsenal player. Chambers committed two bookable offences after getting his yellow card. That obscene throw in on 88 odd minutes when an Arsenal player poked it out and the ref and lino fawkes at each other before thinking, give it Arsenal's way. 

I can't relax having forked out £500 for what is becoming an obvious farce. I could stomach it before as humans in real time make mistakes. Now they've video assistance it's obviously more than simple incompetence. I had my boy there today who asked me what was the point. I had no answer. 

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Thing is, VAR was supposed to stop any arguments. Yes by the letter of the law, if Zimmermann wasn't fouled then it was a penalty.

So why didn't we get one against Palace when an arm was raised to stop a cross? Because VAR didn't think the ref had made a howler. So if the rule is that if your arm is outside the silhouette then its a penalty it doesn't matter if the referee didn't give a penalty in the first place, the fact that it hit the arm is enough for VAR. But that isn't happening.

We seem to have been on the losing side of decisions this year. That isn't complaining, its an observation.

And Kolasinac may not have drawn his head back to butt but did put his forehead on MacLean's. Why couldn't VAR see that?

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And what about the arsenal player who came steaming in and gave the mayor a big shove out of the way, he (the mayor) had done nothing obviously aggressive yet the ref didn't even talk to the second goober!

Edited by cornish sam

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5 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Zimmermann was nudged. It was a foul. You're either **** with the application of the rules for the full 90 minutes or not at all. 

And Aubamayang handballs it the build up to their corner. Again, a softer approach to the rules taken when it affects an Arsenal player. Chambers committed two bookable offences after getting his yellow card. That obscene throw in on 88 odd minutes when an Arsenal player poked it out and the ref and lino fawkes at each other before thinking, give it Arsenal's way. 

I can't relax having forked out £500 for what is becoming an obvious farce. I could stomach it before as humans in real time make mistakes. Now they've video assistance it's obviously more than simple incompetence. I had my boy there today who asked me what was the point. I had no answer. 

The answer is ....to support and encourage the team, no matter what, and enjoy  the  spectacle.  no ref  ever changed his mind cos some geezer in the crowd doesn't  agree.  The major decisions  were  pretty much correct.  Dont  forget,  we scored from a deflection so a bit of luck our way there.   

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5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

The answer is ....to support and encourage the team, no matter what, and enjoy  the  spectacle.  no ref  ever changed his mind cos some geezer in the crowd doesn't  agree.  The major decisions  were  pretty much correct.  Dont  forget,  we scored from a deflection so a bit of luck our way there.   

Jesus, a deflected goal isn't even close to comparable to a whole host of decisions and/or errors from officials that consistently benefited one side over the other. 

There was absolutely nothing fortunate for us today. An iota of the good "fortune" (other adjectives are more appropriate) Arsenal had today then we take all three points. I coach grassroots, any single one of the volunteer, amateur refs I've witnessed this season in charge today and we win. A ****ing trained gorilla instead of that objectively useless **** Michael Oliver in charge of VAR and we win. 

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My view on it is thus:

Zimbo, your hand went unnaturally out into the way of the ball. It was bizarre. It is for sure a penalty, David Luiz challenging him physically has nothing to do with it.

My issue is of course with the retake. Aarons is encroaching, that is clear; second closest to the ball is Amadou who is also encroaching. Third to the ball would have been Zimmermann without an Arsenal player in sight, and he wasn't encroaching. Therefore for me the question is, despite there being no goalscoring opportunity from the rebound, why is it retaken? If Lacazette or whoever was bearing down on the rebound I could understand.

Similarly, their second goal. When a second ball enters the pitch, rules state a ref must stop the game if it interferes with play, but not if it doesn't. Can anyone say it didn't interfere with the defences concentration? An entirely human decision, no VAR, which applied to the first scenario would have meant within reason that we remained 1-0 up in the first place.

I think the problem with VAR is that most decisions are still being made with regular human eyeballs, and then depending on the weather the odd pivotal few are being scrutinised to within a millimetres like some obscene justification. It rips the heart right out of the game. 

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1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Jesus, a deflected goal isn't even close to comparable to a whole host of decisions and/or errors from officials that consistently benefited one side over the other. 

There was absolutely nothing fortunate for us today.

In the interests of balance, another referee or another VAR could easily have given McLean a red card for his tackle on Guendouzi late in the first half or a second penalty against Zimmermann when he blocked a left wing cross with his arm.

For the record, I think the referee got both decisions correct, but on another day we could've had those go against us.

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In the interests of balance, another referee or another VAR could easily have given McLean a red card for his tackle on Guendouzi late in the first half or a second penalty against Zimmermann when he blocked a left wing cross with his arm.

For the record, I think the referee got both decisions correct, but on another day we could've had those go against us.

But that isn't really balance is it. VAR is supposed to get it right. To say on a different day it might be different means it is worthless. Goal lIne tech has worked wonderfully but VAR is not fit for purpose.

 
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7 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Jesus, a deflected goal isn't even close to comparable to a whole host of decisions and/or errors from officials that consistently benefited one side over the other. 

There was absolutely nothing fortunate for us today. An iota of the good "fortune" (other adjectives are more appropriate) Arsenal had today then we take all three points. I coach grassroots, any single one of the volunteer, amateur refs I've witnessed this season in charge today and we win. A ****ing trained gorilla instead of that objectively useless **** Michael Oliver in charge of VAR and we win. 

I too have coached grass roots...and beyond.  Experience  teaches us not to overreact  when on the receiving end of  doubtful  decisions, not that I think that any were that wrong, as someone else  said ,mcclean could have got red and zimbo could have had another  handball  against him.

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1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

In the interests of balance, another referee or another VAR could easily have given McLean a red card for his tackle on Guendouzi late in the first half or a second penalty against Zimmermann when he blocked a left wing cross with his arm.

For the record, I think the referee got both decisions correct, but on another day we could've had those go against us.

And anyone, absolutely anyone, else reffing, even Arsene ****ing Wenger or Ian Wright, wouldn't have had the brass neck to not give Chambers a second yellow on one of his two blatantly bookable challenges. 

And again, Zimmermann was fouled, by the letter of the law (don't think if was Luiz, the other stupid haired ****). You don't like seeing them given due to the fact it'd ruin the game and it doesn't really have a material impact on the game. So he let that go but then suddenly gets all **** about the letter of the law over encroachment. Total ****ing ****. 

And again, the ball struck Aubamayang's hand as he controlled the ball in the build up to their goalscoring corner. Had it been a Norwich hand it's a freekick every ****ing day of the week. 

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1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

And anyone, absolutely anyone, else reffing, even Arsene ****ing Wenger or Ian Wright, wouldn't have had the brass neck to not give Chambers a second yellow on one of his two blatantly bookable challenges. 

And again, Zimmermann was fouled, by the letter of the law (don't think if was Luiz, the other stupid haired ****). You don't like seeing them given due to the fact it'd ruin the game and it doesn't really have a material impact on the game. So he let that go but then suddenly gets all **** about the letter of the law over encroachment. Total ****ing ****. 

And again, the ball struck Aubamayang's hand as he controlled the ball in the build up to their goalscoring corner. Had it been a Norwich hand it's a freekick every ****ing day of the week. 

Wow, if you are coaching                   ' grassroots ' ....as in kids, then I hope your  pitch side  manner is less  volatile than your online persona. Take a chill pill, maybe two. 

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

I too have coached grass roots...and beyond.  Experience  teaches us not to overreact  when on the receiving end of  doubtful  decisions, not that I think that any were that wrong, as someone else  said ,mcclean could have got red and zimbo could have had another  handball  against him.

I take it you watched in on TV and haven't forked out a **** ton on a season ticket to watch something that is starting to struggle to justify it being classified sport. And you didn't take a 6 year old who's been put off because of all the ****. 

I'm also pretty drunk so overreaction is inevitable, just be grateful it's moaning on here as the alternative was hanging around Carrow Road waiting for Michael Oliver to vent in a more constructive way. Constructive in that he'd never GE able to **** up a football match again. ****. 

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3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

In the interests of balance, another referee or another VAR could easily have given McLean a red card for his tackle on Guendouzi late in the first half or a second penalty against Zimmermann when he blocked a left wing cross with his arm.

For the record, I think the referee got both decisions correct, but on another day we could've had those go against us.

But that isn't really balance is it. VAR is supposed to get it right. To say on a different day it might be different means it is worthless. Goal lIne tech has worked wonderfully but VAR is not fit for purpose.

 

I think it is balance.

Another VAR or a other ref could've given a foul by Luiz on Zimmerman, or as Canary Dan is saying, they could've given one of these fouls by Chambers a second yellow or they could've given a handball against Aubameyang. Arsenal may have got lucky.

But similarly, we could've seen a red for McLean or another penalty against Zimmermann.

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1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Wow, if you are coaching                   ' grassroots ' ....as in kids, then I hope your  pitch side  manner is less  volatile than your online persona. Take a chill pill, maybe two. 

Agreed completely. I hope he isn't in charge of kids if he acts like this.

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Just now, wcorkcanary said:

Wow, if you are coaching                   ' grassroots ' ....as in kids, then I hope your  pitch side  manner is less  volatile than your online persona. Take a chill pill, maybe two. 

If I'd ever witnessed the level of ****-uppery I did today then I couldn't guarantee a polite pitch side manner, fortunately the standard of unpaid officiating vastly, vastly exceeds the performances of Premier League equivalents so my behaviour hasn't been tested. 

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2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm also pretty drunk

To quote another  user....Nuff Said.

End of discussion. I hope your home safely and your six year old  is not too badly affected by  our excellent  performance.  Football can teach us much about the knocks  of life 

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the only thing that was wrong was that Chambers was still on the pitch at 90 minutes. He committed two or three fouls that warranted a second yellow but the ref bottled them all.

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It's a shame that the six-year-old isn't talking to his dad about a great game, a good performance and a point against Arsenal. Instead he's listening to his drunk father swear about the ref and may unfortunately learn bad habits about mouthing off to referees or teachers when he doesn't get his own way.

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3 minutes ago, duke63 said:

the only thing that was wrong was that Chambers was still on the pitch at 90 minutes. He committed two or three fouls that warranted a second yellow but the ref bottled them all.

He was  treading a thin line for sure,  after his second  foul, I'm pretty sure that the ref told him, one more and I'll book you. He was unable to contribute  fully after that, it helped us create  chances.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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3 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

It's a shame that the six-year-old isn't talking to his dad about a great game, a good performance and a point against Arsenal. Instead he's listening to his drunk father swear about the ref and may unfortunately learn bad habits about mouthing off to referees or teachers when he doesn't get his own way.

OK boomer. 

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If anything we’ve got away with one on the decisions today as McClean really should have been sent off for that challenge 

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