READ THIS PLEASE YOU HYSTERICAL MOB - No lies

[a1canary 0]

But before you do, i feel the need to point out some of the subtleties of the English language that so many of you seem incapable of grasping. I''m glad i never went to school in Norfolk - i thought there were supposed to be a few decent ones but they''re clearly lacking on the English language front.

1. It says no DEAL, not no OFFERS.
2. Doncaster says there''s nothing to report as regards said DEAL.
3. An attempt was made to conlude the deal on Friday so DA could play on Monday. This attempt FAILED, so the deal was NOT concluded on Friday - not at the time of the report, nor at the time Doncaster made his statement. So, NO DEAL, NO LIE.
4. Obviously no club is in the business of announcing deals before they are done, even if they are likely to happen.

So, PLEASE PLEASE stop slandering the club. Now, READ, carefully:

21 January 2006
No deal for Ashton, say City

Norwich City officials are denying that an £8 million deal has been struck star with West Ham for the transfer of striker Dean Ashton.

National newspaper The Daily Mail is today reporting that the Hammers have at last been successful in prising away Ashton after tracking him throughout the January transfer window.

The report suggests that this is the fourth bid from the Premiership club and is believed to include a set fee plus add-ons.

However, the Canaries'' chief executive Neil Doncaster simply had this to say this morning: “As and when there is anything to report we will report it. As of yet there is nothing.”

The newspaper reckons Ashton, 22, will be given the No 9 shirt once personal terms are agreed. The report says that Ashton met West Ham officials yesterday in a bid to beat the 5.30pm Friday deadline for player registration.

The talks failed to conclude, however, meaning Ashton will not be available for the Hammers'' Monday night TV clash with Fulham.

[LinkNR9 0]

And your point is...?

[a1canary 0]

The point is, that many people have been referring to Saturday''s

statement by the club as lies. This is just plain wrong and if it means

i have to go out on a limb to counter some of the outlandish, knee-jerk

reactions to the ashton sale, eventhough we were all prepared for it

anyway, then i will do! Although i think there are plenty of people out

there who feel the same.

And before i get labelled ''board lover'', ''KtFer'', ''smith sympathiser''

or whatever, all i''m really interested in is seeing balanced and

reasoned debate rather than hot headed over-reactions full of

conjecture and misrepresentation.

[Northern Canary 0]

Exactly A1! There have been hundreds of posts about the club lying. That has not been the case and in many cases they cannot reveal what is going on with regards to deals. I expect it is just an angry reaction to Deanos sale, which we have made the best out of considering he wanted to go.

[Canuck Canary 0]

great post A1!!!

 

[ZLF 242]

As I posted earlier the comments by the club have been impeccably worded and there have been no lies.   

However the words say one thing but the ''impression'' created is something else, talk of silly money, no contact (not sat but previously) gave the average fan an implicit expectation that no deal was being muted and that only a really massive figure far in excess of the £6.7m (that figure was quoted by the club to endorse the expectation) would make the club consider selling Deano.

I am happy with the deal, Deano was unsettled by the summer offers and desperate to play in the prem, and it is good news for the club in the long term.  Losing your star player is always tough but £7m+ is a fair price, not silly money, but not undersold either.

The club have not lied, but are perhaps more guilty of creating a misleading expectation amongst the fans (and something I suggetsed early Jan may happen) for an event that has been inevitable since Sept.  

 

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I agree with the thrust of this thread and again would like to add there is something missing in the Club''s public relations, a certain lack of charisma perhaps.

Football is a sport AND a business.

[Saint Canary 0]

The board didn''t lie but they hardly told the whole truth either.  As Zipper pointed out the statement gives an "impression" that is different to the eventual outcome.

As I pointed out in other post the club have been sending out messages that someone will be leaving.  Firstly we have no money but at the same time we are interested in players valued at £1m-£3m.  I think it was pretty clear to see what that all added up to.

[A Load of Squit 4,644]

[quote user="Saint Canary"]

The board didn''t lie but they hardly told the whole truth either.  As Zipper pointed out the statement gives an "impression" that is different to the eventual outcome.

As I pointed out in other post the club have been sending out messages that someone will be leaving.  Firstly we have no money but at the same time we are interested in players valued at £1m-£3m.  I think it was pretty clear to see what that all added up to.

[/quote]

Its not the clubs fault that these people can''t read between the lines of the statements that were put out, heres a clue for you all in the future (because this will happen again and I don''t want you all to get upset about it again) its what isn''t said that is important.

Its the same with speculation about us buying players, I never believe that we''ve got a player until I see the press picture of them at Colney/Carrow Rd holding the shirt/scarf next to NW or one of the coaching staff, even then (Ian Crook signing for the lot down the A140 as an example) you still have to be cautious.

 

[ZLF 242]

Or how about the caring sharing club with fans at its core looking to create an unambigous statement rather than hiding behind verbal technicalities? 

Sat lunchtimes statement, We have not agreed a fee for Dean with West Ham for £8m, nor indeed accepted any other bids for any other players with any other club.”  is a prime example; it is factually correct but was intended to give the impression that Deano was not moving - it was released just before the game when people would be travelling and have the least possible time to read between the lines as you suggest LOS.  

The statement can also correctly be read to say we have accepted an offer from West Ham for a figure other than £8m and that offers for players other than Ashton from other clubs have been unsuccessful.

There is an art to creating clear communication,  and there is also an art to imparting white noise into a carefully worded statement that tells a truth but not necessarly the one the listener beleives he is getting... 

[beelsie 0]

Well said A1!1 A balanced post based on what was actually stated by the club representatives.  Not,  may I say, a representation of what was read into statements made by the media and all types of pundit hogwash, which is, and always will be made, in  attempts to stir up antagonism, by those among us who are not ready to sort out and study what has actually been said at grass roots, \\\\ie "The club".  I believe that YC had got it about right in his statement, that the deal and intention to deal was done earlier but the details had to be sort out!!! Together with all the contractual obligations etc.

The use of words often bothers me, many of them have no actual meaning or definable content.  One poster uses the word to define the club PR team as lacking Charisma,  In my thoughts lack of Charisma, is highly desirable when making a statement of importance.  Let''s all of us stick to the unvarnished facts, to adults, a spoonful of sugar is never necessary.

Others often accuse players of lacking passion on the field, or in the spectators enclosure the fans do not make enough noise etc.  Some have said that the young player in question is quiet and lacks passion.  All these statements are lacking in perception, by the very fact that there are those of us who must see the clenched fist pumping the air after some feat or other, accompanied by some mouthed expletive or gesture that would be associated from a silly four year old.  I would imagine that there many among us who would rather save that wasted energy for something more productive on the chosen field, after all the energy used by the mind in creating the effort and the adrenalin to produce the so called feat,  is to no avail when the the players have become so relaxed in their collective celibrations that the opposing side straight away runs at them and scores an equaliser.

If I were a manager the only celibrations I would tolerate from my players is a victory salute from my players at the end of the game, and a salute from the team to the crowd for their part as spectators.  For me it is all about control, especially self control, if our players have''nt got the mind right they will never get the game right. Without a fit mind there will never be a fit body, nor the esential drive within to bring success. 

Worthy out! many of you say, there is nothing he or any one else can do if the soldiers on the field are not of the mind or will to perform.  He has made some bad purchases, there have been shiny apples in the market to buy but they are percieved by many of our fans to have very poor flavour when on the field.

There have on many boards been information about the character and application of our purchases, but we have not been mindful of that information, to our regret.  The money that has been available to the manager to buy quality has been tight, it is true and the money available to pay the wages of so called quality even tighter.  But I, being a manager, would have alarm bells ringing if a player became available, but was having to be toted around the circuit by his agent.  I would far rather spend my money on a player with guts and determination from a lower division who is ready to fight for the cause, and this club because he has the will and determination to prove himself to me and the fans. I don''t need passion or the useless display of it, or the charisma of fine words at the end of a bad deal, I just wa''nt honesty and purposeful endeavour. OTBC

[ricardo 6,666]

A great post A1. Unfortunateley at times of high emotion the teenage scribblers tend to swamp the board so a cool analytical reply is always appreciated by those of us with more considered views.

Lets all hope that we spend the money wisely. "Young and hungry" is what we need now. Promotion is no more than a remote possibility now so lets build for next season. OTBC

[westoncanary. 0]

Don''t you work in the legal profession, Zipper?   Your last sentence describes perfectly a legal document!! 

[Ken Aries 0]

You''ve hit the nail on the head, ZLF. At the very least, the board have misled "the best fans in the world". How insincere that little epithet sounds now.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="beelsie"]

Well said A1!1 A balanced post based on what was actually stated by the club representatives.  Not,  may I say, a representation of what was read into statements made by the media and all types of pundit hogwash, which is, and always will be made, in  attempts to stir up antagonism, by those among us who are not ready to sort out and study what has actually been said at grass roots, \\\\ie "The club".  I believe that YC had got it about right in his statement, that the deal and intention to deal was done earlier but the details had to be sort out!!! Together with all the contractual obligations etc.

The use of words often bothers me, many of them have no actual meaning or definable content.  One poster uses the word to define the club PR team as lacking Charisma,  In my thoughts lack of Charisma, is highly desirable when making a statement of importance.  Let''s all of us stick to the unvarnished facts, to adults, a spoonful of sugar is never necessary.

Others often accuse players of lacking passion on the field, or in the spectators enclosure the fans do not make enough noise etc.  Some have said that the young player in question is quiet and lacks passion.  All these statements are lacking in perception, by the very fact that there are those of us who must see the clenched fist pumping the air after some feat or other, accompanied by some mouthed expletive or gesture that would be associated from a silly four year old.  I would imagine that there many among us who would rather save that wasted energy for something more productive on the chosen field, after all the energy used by the mind in creating the effort and the adrenalin to produce the so called feat,  is to no avail when the the players have become so relaxed in their collective celibrations that the opposing side straight away runs at them and scores an equaliser.

If I were a manager the only celibrations I would tolerate from my players is a victory salute from my players at the end of the game, and a salute from the team to the crowd for their part as spectators.  For me it is all about control, especially self control, if our players have''nt got the mind right they will never get the game right. Without a fit mind there will never be a fit body, nor the esential drive within to bring success. 

Worthy out! many of you say, there is nothing he or any one else can do if the soldiers on the field are not of the mind or will to perform.  He has made some bad purchases, there have been shiny apples in the market to buy but they are percieved by many of our fans to have very poor flavour when on the field.

There have on many boards been information about the character and application of our purchases, but we have not been mindful of that information, to our regret.  The money that has been available to the manager to buy quality has been tight, it is true and the money available to pay the wages of so called quality even tighter.  But I, being a manager, would have alarm bells ringing if a player became available, but was having to be toted around the circuit by his agent.  I would far rather spend my money on a player with guts and determination from a lower division who is ready to fight for the cause, and this club because he has the will and determination to prove himself to me and the fans. I don''t need passion or the useless display of it, or the charisma of fine words at the end of a bad deal, I just wa''nt honesty and purposeful endeavour. OTBC

[/quote]

He signed most of the worst players on the pitch, the ineffectual midfield trio, the underwhelming right back!!!  the underwhelming left back!!!  he wanted to release one of the 3 bright sparks on the pitch that shone above the dross elsewhere!!

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

beelsie

Well said A1!1 A balanced post based on what was actually stated by the club representatives.  Not,  may I say, a representation of what was read into statements made by the media and all types of pundit hogwash, which is, and always will be made, in  attempts to stir up antagonism, by those among us who are not ready to sort out and study what has actually been said at grass roots, \\\\ie "The club".  I believe that YC had got it about right in his statement, that the deal and intention to deal was done earlier but the details had to be sort out!!! Together with all the contractual obligations etc.

The use of words often bothers me, many of them have no actual meaning or definable content.  One poster uses the word to define the club PR team as lacking Charisma,  In my thoughts lack of Charisma, is highly desirable when making a statement of importance.  Let''s all of us stick to the unvarnished facts, to adults, a spoonful of sugar is never necessary.

Others often accuse players of lacking passion on the field, or in the spectators enclosure the fans do not make enough noise etc.  Some have said that the young player in question is quiet and lacks passion.  All these statements are lacking in perception, by the very fact that there are those of us who must see the clenched fist pumping the air after some feat or other, accompanied by some mouthed expletive or gesture that would be associated from a silly four year old.  I would imagine that there many among us who would rather save that wasted energy for something more productive on the chosen field, after all the energy used by the mind in creating the effort and the adrenalin to produce the so called feat,  is to no avail when the the players have become so relaxed in their collective celibrations that the opposing side straight away runs at them and scores an equaliser.

If I were a manager the only celibrations I would tolerate from my players is a victory salute from my players at the end of the game, and a salute from the team to the crowd for their part as spectators.  For me it is all about control, especially self control, if our players have''nt got the mind right they will never get the game right. Without a fit mind there will never be a fit body, nor the esential drive within to bring success. 

Worthy out! many of you say, there is nothing he or any one else can do if the soldiers on the field are not of the mind or will to perform.  He has made some bad purchases, there have been shiny apples in the market to buy but they are percieved by many of our fans to have very poor flavour when on the field.

There have on many boards been information about the character and application of our purchases, but we have not been mindful of that information, to our regret.  The money that has been available to the manager to buy quality has been tight, it is true and the money available to pay the wages of so called quality even tighter.  But I, being a manager, would have alarm bells ringing if a player became available, but was having to be toted around the circuit by his agent.  I would far rather spend my money on a player with guts and determination from a lower division who is ready to fight for the cause, and this club because he has the will and determination to prove himself to me and the fans. I don''t need passion or the useless display of it, or the charisma of fine words at the end of a bad deal, I just wa''nt honesty and purposeful endeavour. OTBC

So, on officially the most depressing day of the year comes the most depressing post of the  year so far, my God Beelsie, I bet you''re the life and soul of any party.[li]

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

 

".  I would far rather spend my money on a player with guts and determination from a lower division who is ready to fight for the cause, and this club because he has the will and determination to prove himself to me and the fans. I don''t need passion or the useless display of it, or the charisma of fine words at the end of a bad deal, I just wa''nt honesty and purposeful endeavour."

 

useless displays of passion - like clapping every match, i want quality footballers at norwich, the best quality we can afford to sign.  I dont see this happening at the current time

[beelsie 0]

Well Paul, I would''nt disagree with most of what you say, apart from replace Worthy. Neither you nor I are aware of how he was placed in the buying market, or what the purchasing constraints placed upon him by the board were, or indeed what the wage demands were in the market that made Mr Worthy buy the players that he did.

Neither you, nor I can be sure how a new manager would react to any of those restraints were he appointed. What I am sure of is, that as long as this board remains in place those same management strategies will be rigourously employed. IMHO it is the board who will appoint any new manager, it is also my understanding that they will, being the employers, insist on the new managers compliance with the strategies that have previously been in place,and that to become a manager a NCFC he will have to abide by them, therefore it is again my HO, that not much will change  under this existing board that will stray from the policies that are in place.  That is, that any manager employed will do their bidding within a tight budget policy and a tight wages policy. 

I also note that some of the players that were released by Worthy have gone to other clubs and have performed no better than when here. If it is possible the whole club if it is to improve  the complete management set up from the board down should be replaced, as it would be, in a complete sell out to a very rich philanthropist, certainly not a business man, but someone who is extremely rich and can meet the outrageous demands that will come from underperforming dross that grace our playing surfaces, who call themselves footballers.

Finally,  I am sure that Worthy is quite sure of what makes up a good player, as well as being able to recognise what makes a good team, I am also sure that he is not able to attract the right kind of player, given the restraints as mentioned above.

[Trent Canary 0]

[quote user="LinkNR9"]And your point is...?[/quote]

How amusing, someone writes a good post on the clubs behaviour, an answer for all those people that want answers. And the first person to reply says the above... A1 - As you mention on another thread, with people like that its not really worth it, hence why I decided to avoid the whole matter!

Anyway, im a bit mixed. Before I make an opinion I would like to know whether the quote in ZLF''s post, and other such quotes were a response to a journalist question (In which case what else could the club have done?) or it the club came out and made the statement off their own back (In which case thats very misleading, if not a lie)

[beelsie 0]

Yes Mr Hucker, it was a depressing post, it was also my honest opinion of what is wrong with so much media hype.  I have been about long enough to realise that it is necessary to first recognise the negatives in any problem, and by addressing those we can arrive at a solution and thereby create a success.  I can enjoy good company, and humour, and good friends, also, without going over the top with the celeibrations. 

 I do''nt know if you remember Tony Hancocks the comedian, he was known as the life and soul of the party and an over the top good egg,  He probably laughed when he committed suicide.  I can look at the disappointing aspects of a problem without becoming depressed about it.  My enjoyment comes from solving the problem and making success out of failure, all positive aspects of life, you may agree.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="beelsie"]

Well Paul, I would''nt disagree with most of what you say, apart from replace Worthy. Neither you nor I are aware of how he was placed in the buying market, or what the purchasing constraints placed upon him by the board were, or indeed what the wage demands were in the market that made Mr Worthy buy the players that he did.

Neither you, nor I can be sure how a new manager would react to any of those restraints were he appointed. What I am sure of is, that as long as this board remains in place those same management strategies will be rigourously employed. IMHO it is the board who will appoint any new manager, it is also my understanding that they will, being the employers, insist on the new managers compliance with the strategies that have previously been in place,and that to become a manager a NCFC he will have to abide by them, therefore it is again my HO, that not much will change  under this existing board that will stray from the policies that are in place.  That is, that any manager employed will do their bidding within a tight budget policy and a tight wages policy. 

I also note that some of the players that were released by Worthy have gone to other clubs and have performed no better than when here. If it is possible the whole club if it is to improve  the complete management set up from the board down should be replaced, as it would be, in a complete sell out to a very rich philanthropist, certainly not a business man, but someone who is extremely rich and can meet the outrageous demands that will come from underperforming dross that grace our playing surfaces, who call themselves footballers.

Finally,  I am sure that Worthy is quite sure of what makes up a good player, as well as being able to recognise what makes a good team, I am also sure that he is not able to attract the right kind of player, given the restraints as mentioned above.

[/quote]

"Jason Koumas is not the type of player Worthy wants at the club" - Neil Doncaster

I can quite understand worthy not wanting Jason Koumas as he would in no way be able to get the best out of him.  But to then SIGN another player with similar issues whom has not even a tenth of Koumas''s undoubted ability is a disgrace.

"Paul McVeigh needs to play well all the time not one match in 26" - Nigel Worthington

6 goals in 8 games from they lad whom worthy would have freed in the summer, no mention of a contract offer.  Free to walk away in the summer? One of only 2 players with any flair in the whole norwich squad! Worthy''s new best friend!!

Is he going to be this season''s edworthy/malky, a player released for nothing(200,000 for malky) and not adequatly replaced!!

"Andy Hughes is a player I have admired for a long time"- Nigel Worthington

who is anyone kidding here, even the reading fans whom like hughes could not beleive we, as supposed championship favorites, were after a player of his calibre.  If we had signed ONE top quality player ala koumas/idiakiz and a right winger we would not be in this hole now.  But its too late now we do not have the weight anymore as we did on relegation so getting the players in is not going to be easy.

OK I will admit one thing here, I am starting to think perhaps the board have had a fair amount to do with our downfall as well. Worthy is a limited manager, but the board have misculated BIG TIME.  Lets hope they can learn their lessons, worthy has already proven he learns nothing.

[Old Boy 0]

a1, I can only support every word you say. ZLF, you say you think we

got a good deal for Ashton, but you still complain about Doncaster not

telling the whole truth. Firstly, can you not see the link between

telling the "whole truth" and possibly jeopardising the deal, or at

least the chance of getting the best deal? Or maybe Ashton hadn''t

passed his medical. And secondly, how have the we, the fans, been hurt

by this, anyway? I don''t feel hurt. It looks to me like just another

trumped up excuse for slagging off the Board.

[a1canary 0]

Dead right OB, that''s the other thing that people seem to be unable to

grasp - that the ''misleading'' goes hand in hand with the smoke and

mirrors antics that are unfortunately a fact of life in the world of

modern football transfers. If securing the best deal for the club means

''misleading'' fans in this way that seems to have upset people, then i''m

afraid they''re just going to have to lump it. Jeopardise a deal or the

value of a deal for the sake of telling the fans absolutely everything

that''s going on? Admirable, but I don''t think so, not in football!

[ZLF 242]

I dont have any issue with the deal but feel the communication could have been clearer - I am not on any crusade for a whole truth as the point you make Old Boy is correct  - why jeopardise a possible fee and why should we need to know? - but the clear mis-information was un-necessary and the wisdom of any statement at thay time (just pre-match) is questionable.  All I am asking for is if any announcements are made the message is clear rather than confused.

Trent raises a fair question as to whether it was a response in an interview or a prepared statement - being in the ground I dont know the answer - anyone help out there?

 

[Trent Canary 0]

ZLF - I think its important because if they are simply responses to questions then the club acted perfectly and reasonably, and the moans on this board would be misguided. If a journalist asks a question, it would be impossible for us to tell the truth (that we were in discussion with West Ham) and if we ignored it the press they would just make something up, which im sure the majority on here would believe and turn it into another thing to have a go at the board about. If they were prepared statements however then I would be a bit confused as to why they would say these things when a deal was in process.