The Todd Cantwell Appreciation Society

[king canary 7,559]

Young players will always have fluctuations- he deserved to be out of the team for a bit and he's now showing why he deserves to be back. 

[Il Pirata 249]

Being super critical, Cantwell struggled first half. He didn’t offer much, but did work hard and held better defensive discipline when not in possession, which should be recognised as an improvement. 

Second half though, he played very well, impacted the game in a very positive manner, and took his goal brilliantly. 
 

I’m putting it out there though, I’d still rather Emi or Vrancic. Sorry! 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Il Pirata

[kick it off 1,948]

Match of the Day singled Cantwell out for individual praise - Shearer was waxing lyrical about his performance.

[hogesar 9,609]

47 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Being super critical, Cantwell struggled first half. He didn’t offer much, but did work hard and held better defensive discipline when not in possession, which should be recognised as an improvement. 

Second half though, he played very well, impacted the game in a very positive manner, and took his goal brilliantly. 
 

I’m putting it out there though, I’d still rather Emi or Vrancic. Sorry! 

I love Vrancic but he cannot play anything near the role Cantwell is being asked to do.

[Ian 1,129]

50 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Being super critical, Cantwell struggled first half. He didn’t offer much, but did work hard and held better defensive discipline when not in possession, which should be recognised as an improvement. 

Second half though, he played very well, impacted the game in a very positive manner, and took his goal brilliantly. 
 

I’m putting it out there though, I’d still rather Emi or Vrancic. Sorry! 

How many goals has Emi scored this season? Did you see when he came on he gave the ball away on the edge of the penalty area AGAIN with just a few minutes to go, only we got away with it this time?

Cantwell was arguably MoM today, well up there in our top 3 performers. 

[Ian 1,129]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I love Vrancic but he cannot play anything near the role Cantwell is being asked to do.

Agreed, I genuinely don't understand the point - I think there's a massive misunderstanding of what Cantwell offers.

Vrancic is a fantastic, languid midfielder, but almost the polar opposite of Cantwell as a player.

[Ramrod 258]

8 minutes ago, Ian said:

Agreed, I genuinely don't understand the point - I think there's a massive misunderstanding of what Cantwell offers.

Vrancic is a fantastic, languid midfielder, but almost the polar opposite of Cantwell as a player.

I agree. A lot of people don't see Cantwell's qualities. He has a unique skill set. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 hours ago, Il Pirata said:

Being super critical, Cantwell struggled first half. 

I’m putting it out there though, I’d still rather Emi or Vrancic. Sorry! 

Definitely are being super critical, Cantwell worked his bloody socks off in the first half and put his body on the line, he was here, there and every f'in where. 

Buendia recently has been taking too many silly risks, sulking when things don't go his way, and going to ground far too easily and too frequently... It often leaves us a man short when the ref waves play on. 

Cantwell deserved to be dropped,  but currently justifies his place in the XI.

Buendia deserves a few games on the bench, needs to grow up a bit.

Remember Grant Holt was dropped to the bench under Lambert and came back more focussed. 

Picking on talent alone and Beundia would be one of the first names on the team sheet and Cantwell would possibly be on the bench... But he needs to come back more focussed and disciplined and with a renewed desire to impress his gaffer.  

Talent alone not enough else Ravel Morrison would be getting football. 

Buendia will hopefully come back improved. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by TeemuVanBasten

[Il Pirata 249]

9 hours ago, Ian said:

Agreed, I genuinely don't understand the point - I think there's a massive misunderstanding of what Cantwell offers.

Vrancic is a fantastic, languid midfielder, but almost the polar opposite of Cantwell as a player.

No misunderstanfing here, I think Vrancic can work in the Number 10. He did it last season although mainly from the bench. His starts tended to be in the deeper role. But he is clever enough to sit higher up and link with Pukki. But to work, we need pacey players either side of him. Hernandez and Emi or Roberts would do the job. 

Our system requires the balls to be knocked down the channels behind the full backs. Yesterday this only happpened, to very good effect, down the left with Hernandez. Barely once were we able to do this from the right, which lead to attacks breaking down or the ball being played inside into tight positions where the ball was sometimes lost. Hernandez was noticeably knackered in the second half from the amount he was being asked to do. Cantwell isn't quick or direct enough for the AMR role, IMO. He's a number 10, and like Vrancic or Steiperman requires pacey direct players either side of him. 

 

 

 

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

.......................and not just the brain dead Cantwell critics but the somewhat larger group of brain dead NCFC critics  😀

[Il Pirata 249]

4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Definitely are being super critical, Cantwell worked his bloody socks off in the first half and put his body on the line, he was here, there and every f'in where. 

Buendia recently has been taking too many silly risks, sulking when things don't go his way, and going to ground far too easily and too frequently... It often leaves us a man short when the ref waves play on. 

Cantwell deserved to be dropped,  but currently justifies his place in the XI.

Buendia deserves a few games on the bench, needs to grow up a bit.

Remember Grant Holt was dropped to the bench under Lambert and came back more focussed. 

Picking on talent alone and Beundia would be one of the first names on the team sheet and Cantwell would possibly be on the bench... But he needs to come back more focussed and disciplined and with a renewed desire to impress his gaffer.  

Talent alone not enough else Ravel Morrison would be getting football. 

Buendia will hopefully come back improved. 

I am, he played well, and contributed to a brilliant win. Perhaps I'll just leave it at that! 

Infact, I was very critical when I saw all of Tettey, Mclean and Cantwell on the team sheet. So what do I know! 

[JF 694]

Strange thread. As far as I can tell he’s only had one so called critic and he’s on a wum. Any other so called criticism of him is no different to any other player receives

Edited November 24, 2019 by JF

[Gordon Bennett 780]

I think people need to remember that many of our players are young and inexperienced, they are bound to be inconsistent while getting used to the Premier League. What we do know that the talent and ability is there and now that the injury list is shortening we are going to see it more and more. We’ve had a bloody difficult start all things considered but hopefully things will get better over the coming weeks on the back of a great result and performance yesterday. 

If course criticism good and bad is what forums like this are for but unfortunately people always go overboard, I could be wrong but I think many see real football like FIFA or FM on their PC or console where things are black or white with no in between....players aren’t robots and will have good days and bad days. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

36 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

I think people need to remember that many of our players are young and inexperienced, they are bound to be inconsistent while getting used to the Premier League. What we do know that the talent and ability is there and now that the injury list is shortening we are going to see it more and more. We’ve had a bloody difficult start all things considered but hopefully things will get better over the coming weeks on the back of a great result and performance yesterday. 

If course criticism good and bad is what forums like this are for but unfortunately people always go overboard, I could be wrong but I think many see real football like FIFA or FM on their PC or console where things are black or white with no in between....players aren’t robots and will have good days and bad days. 

No more likes available  Gordo so have a thumbs up 👍. 

[Orly 277]

11 hours ago, kick it off said:

Match of the Day singled Cantwell out for individual praise - Shearer was waxing lyrical about his performance.

Todd had a pretty good game and took his goal very well, but the fact that Shearer said it is making me think maybe I'm wrong and that Todd had a terrible game;  that is how much I don't trust Shearer's opinion.

Also, didn't Todd go off with a knock?  He deserves another start after that performance, but might not be in his hands if he's injured, in which case, I want Emi back in straight away.  I think being dropped for one match is more than enough motivation to enable better performances from him.  I saw that hunger back in his defensive work during that 15 minute cameo yesterday.

[curious yellow 184]

12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

 

He did great today but gushing adulation with no hint of criticism is not going to help him. 

Rubbish - top players gain confidence from the praise of their fans. 

It's up to the manager and coaching staff to point out where they might be going wrong 

Fact is nobody on this forum thought Cantwell was worthy of a start yesterday and amazingly some that would replace him next time. 

Cantwell is a different player to Maddison, he's quicker, gets into the box more and offers more options, he has found his level in this division. 

Nobody is asking for "gushing adulation" but positivity is a great help. 

I remember Roeder moaning about Jamie Cureton after he scored a hat-trick. Cureton lost his confidence, stopped scoring, was loaned to Barnsley and helped to relegate us. 

[lake district canary 4,530]

2 hours ago, curious yellow said:

Rubbish - top players gain confidence from the praise of their fans.

Well we all like praise, but if I make a mistake in front of other people in work - or worse keep making the same mistakes - I would know that people will be criticising those mistakes and rightly so.  Players aren't stupid (most of them, anyway), so a good balance of honest praise when due and honest criticism when appropriate should not be so hard to take.  

If a young professional player can't take a bit of criticism when he makes mistakes, then he is not going to get very far in the game. Cantwell is a big boy now and should be able to cope with both sides of life as a front line player - enjoy the praise when you do well, take the flak when you mess up. 

For those that seem unable to tell the difference - and there seem a few on here......criticism is not scapegoating - it is criticism. Scapegoating is when people find someone to blame when things go bad regardless of the reality of the situation.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

We all see different things. Our first goal was seen by many as a great run from Todd. Correct. Some said a great bit of holding play and lay off by Pukki. Correct. But I haven't seen anyone mention top header from Maclean to knock in on to Pukki.

Just because some thought Todd was poor for the first half an hour doesn't mean we don't like him or don't want him to be our best player. Its an observation of what you see happening at the time. Just like you would say something to your mate in the nest seat. But some people just cannot wait to call that hating or criticism.

[Hillhead 114]

57 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Well we all like praise, but if I make a mistake in front of other people in work - or worse keep making the same mistakes - I would know that people will be criticising those mistakes and rightly so.  Players aren't stupid (most of them, anyway), so a good balance of honest praise when due and honest criticism when appropriate should not be so hard to take.  

If a young professional player can't take a bit of criticism when he makes mistakes, then he is not going to get very far in the game. Cantwell is a big boy now and should be able to cope with both sides of life as a front line player - enjoy the praise when you do well, take the flak when you mess up. 

For those that seem unable to tell the difference - and there seem a few on here......criticism is not scapegoating - it is criticism. Scapegoating is when people find someone to blame when things go bad regardless of the reality of the situation.

I think Cantwell has received more criticism than warrented in the last 6-7 months and that's the point here.

You see it as "gushing adulation with no hint of criticism" so I don't think you'll ever agree with those with the opposite view.

[lake district canary 4,530]

I think the issue is that some people do not want to hear anything other than hero worship, which is fine if you are in your teens and need to do that sort of thing, but if you are an adult, which lets face it Todd is, then life will have taught you that there is more to being successful than just receiving praise for what you do. 

Todd is on a huge learning curve, it is only twelve months since he made an incredibly careful and tentative appearance in a league cup game against Stevenage as his first start last season. He has gone since then from young prospect to the first eleven in the Premier League and he is doing great. But, he is still learning and will do things wrong sometimes. That is natural and it is only natural for people to point out those things, as well as the good things.  If people don't like that then tough, Todd is presumably on a big wage and contract and will have to learn to deal with that.

Good as he is, he is not the finished article and I hope he is grounded enough to be able to improve his overall game and not get carried away with the plaudits that come his way. There are too many young players who lose their way because they get ahead of themselves. I trust and hope Todd is not one of those and keeps his feet on the ground. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Well we all like praise, but if I make a mistake in front of other people in work - or worse keep making the same mistakes - I would know that people will be criticising those mistakes and rightly so.  Players aren't stupid (most of them, anyway), so a good balance of honest praise when due and honest criticism when appropriate should not be so hard to take.  

If a young professional player can't take a bit of criticism when he makes mistakes, then he is not going to get very far in the game. Cantwell is a big boy now and should be able to cope with both sides of life as a front line player - enjoy the praise when you do well, take the flak when you mess up. 

For those that seem unable to tell the difference - and there seem a few on here......criticism is not scapegoating - it is criticism. Scapegoating is when people find someone to blame when things go bad regardless of the reality of the situation.

I agree with all of that but unfortunately we (maybe like all clubs) have a not insubstantial group of fans who do like to scapegoat a specific player when things aren't going too well and its often quite unrelated to how well that player is actually performing.

I'm sure we could all name former players who've quite unfairly been scapegoated when the team is not playing well, usually we seem to stick with one per season even when its obvious that they're not really performing any worse than others in the squad who are mysteriously exempted from the nastiness as they're not the official scapegoat.

Criticism as you rightly say is something different altogether, IMO Todd has been on the receiving end of both (from different posters obviously) this season and last. The criticism is fine, the scapegoating definitely isn't - so personally I see it as very positive that at least on this occasion people are pushing back against the stupidity of it.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Creative Midfielder

[curious yellow 184]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I think the issue is that some people do not want to hear anything other than hero worship, which is fine if you are in your teens and need to do that sort of thing, but if you are an adult, which lets face it Todd is, then life will have taught you that there is more to being successful than just receiving praise for what you do. 

 

No, the issue is Todd or any other player is not going to respond very well to patronising simplistic comments like "doing things wrong" and comments about his hair and wearing gloves. 

For some reason he attracts more of this treatment than most. Just look how many negatives in this post, after a good performance. 

And no, I wouldn't criticise anybody for making a mistake, everybody makes them. Bad attitude, lack of effort or complete lack of ability - yes. 

I hear his wages are low for premiership standards but it is great for the team to have a loyal supporter in the squad. 

We've just seen Stiepermann and Buendia take down their social media accounts.

Public criticism encourages others to do the same. We have seen how when things go wrong some will wimp out and start agreeing with the trolls. 

[nutty nigel 7,506]

I think "brain dead" is a bit strong. They must have some functionality between their ears. Even the guy who called Canarycall to have a rant about "Toddwell"....

[cornish sam 940]

He made Garth crooks team of the week, though only got 2 sentences out of a 3 paragraph writeup actually about him, the rest was about Everton being carp!

[hogesar 9,609]

Krul refers to the 'stick' Todd gets (for some reason unknown to me) in his interview:

"Toddy was chasing everything, he's done unbelievable. He's had so much stick and he's such an amazing kid that he just bats it all off and then he puts in a performance like that. I love it because it's not easy but he showed again what a top player he is."

[hogesar 9,609]

And just to elaborate, I have no issue with criticism but I do have a problem with, for example, four or five posters on here who sarcastically claim he's only in the team because he's from Dereham etc etc. He's in the team on merit as are all our players.

[Red Rufus 56]

 The problem is the people you refer to clearly know little about football, it makes for good light hearted entertainment when I have nothing better to do. On the other side of the coin it sadly makes responding almost pointless.

[king canary 7,559]

20 minutes ago, hogesar said:

And just to elaborate, I have no issue with criticism but I do have a problem with, for example, four or five posters on here who sarcastically claim he's only in the team because he's from Dereham etc etc. He's in the team on merit as are all our players.

Yeah but he wore gloves so...

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Worked hard and played well on Saturday, did the defensive graft and took his goal well. Retains his place for me.

[Mr Apples 1,315]

I think the the return of the 'Alice band' should also be taking some credit. 🤣

Apples