The fabled academy

[cornish sam 944]

Thanks for the summary nutty.

Can anyone also give an indication as to how many are playing above their age group (so u18s/u16s playing u23, u16s in the u18s etc) as that probably gives us a decent idea as to the future...

[Well b back 3,189]

Hey op didn’t realise as well your ITFC academy also released Pope ( now an England goalkeeper ) for not being good enough.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

23 hours ago, Well b back said:

Hey op didn’t realise as well your ITFC academy also released Pope ( now an England goalkeeper ) for not being good enough.

Be careful with that one. He was offered to NCFC too... 

[king canary 7,578]

18 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Be careful with that one. He was offered to NCFC too... 

I went to Uni with his brother, family are all big Ipswich fans, surprised they passed on him.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Its really hard to judge the academy at the moment I think because there is inevitably a lag between making changes and those players starting to come through to challenge for first team places. The results of the U23s and U18s have certainly been a little disappointing but I think are a little bit distorted by the fact that so many players are out on loan which means we have younger players in the U23s and presumably also has a knock on effect on the younger sides.

I assume that the target is that of the players recently brought in and/or brought through we will see 1 or 2 a season challenging for first team action in 2 or 3 years time. my slight concern is who will be challenging in the shorter term should we sell a couple of the current first team youngsters. Idah perhaps, but i'm not sure who else is anywhere near ready (especially if we are premier league) and I've been a little bit disappointed at both the levels we seem to be loaning players out to and also that very few of our players out on loan seem to be getting regular rave reviews, 

I must confess I;ve not really heard how Gilmour is doing so he may be the one to watch but I note that Power has not been getting in the team up in Scotland (even though their fans seem to rate him) and Spyrou (who I've always thought looked very promising) has just had his loan at Chesterfield cut short after an unsuccessful loan at Wrexham and Bushiri is not getting a regular game at Blackpool. I would hope that as a premier league club, our young players would be able to play regularly and cope at league 1 level at the very least as otherwise one has to question whether they are going to make the grade long term for a "yo-yo" club like us.

I would certainly like to see Idah given the second half of the season on loan this season with a view to preparing him to play in our first team next season in the championship if we go down.

 

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

Just now, king canary said:

I went to Uni with his brother, family are all big Ipswich fans, surprised they passed on him.

Yes - and the night a (ahem) scout watched him it was when he was playing for Bury Town against Blackburn in the youth FA Cup. The scout when he rang in his report was told that NCFC had enough young GK’s and why would they want an ITFC cast off. 
story is longer than that but it’s the gist. To be fair a few passed him over (academies often do that if someone has had a long look like ITFC did then release them) . I think it was Chartlon that took him on?

He always had the build but there was a question over his agility in particular his collapse . Someone got hold of him and made him what he is today. That’s how it works ! None of the younger GK’s he was compared to at NCFC have gone on to achieve what he has. 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Its really hard to judge the academy at the moment I think because there is inevitably a lag between making changes and those players starting to come through to challenge for first team places. The results of the U23s and U18s have certainly been a little disappointing but I think are a little bit distorted by the fact that so many players are out on loan which means we have younger players in the U23s and presumably also has a knock on effect on the younger sides.

I assume that the target is that of the players recently brought in and/or brought through we will see 1 or 2 a season challenging for first team action in 2 or 3 years time. my slight concern is who will be challenging in the shorter term should we sell a couple of the current first team youngsters. Idah perhaps, but i'm not sure who else is anywhere near ready (especially if we are premier league) and I've been a little bit disappointed at both the levels we seem to be loaning players out to and also that very few of our players out on loan seem to be getting regular rave reviews, 

I must confess I;ve not really heard how Gilmour is doing so he may be the one to watch but I note that Power has not been getting in the team up in Scotland (even though their fans seem to rate him) and Spyrou (who I've always thought looked very promising) has just had his loan at Chesterfield cut short after an unsuccessful loan at Wrexham and Bushiri is not getting a regular game at Blackpool. I would hope that as a premier league club, our young players would be able to play regularly and cope at league 1 level at the very least as otherwise one has to question whether they are going to make the grade long term for a "yo-yo" club like us.

I would certainly like to see Idah given the second half of the season on loan this season with a view to preparing him to play in our first team next season in the championship if we go down.

 

 

Ironically- the higher we go the harder it is to bring players into the first team . You wonder if Aarons Godfrey or Lewis would have flourished in the Prem as they did in the Chumps. Looking at the path of say Tammy Abrahams he had to go out before he was good enough - and that  brings risks of its own. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Ironically- the higher we go the harder it is to bring players into the first team . You wonder if Aarons Godfrey or Lewis would have flourished in the Prem as they did in the Chumps. Looking at the path of say Tammy Abrahams he had to go out before he was good enough - and that  brings risks of its own. 

I agree entirely GPB. It would obviously be easier to give players a go in the championship than it is in the premier league. I think sending the players out on loan is a good thing. My point really is that I am a little disappointed that of the players we are sending out on loan who are 19/20 or even 21 very few seem to be holding down a regular starting place at a level which suggests that they are close to even becoming starters in the championship.

For example I would expect a player who has played at Belgium U21 level to be able to earn a starting place in the Blackpool team at league 1 level.

I am sure though that physically they learn a lot though from playing lower league or non league football (or Scottish football) and that can only stand them in good stead and with some of these youngsters that's probably what these loans are aimed at because we no doubt recruit looking for primarily technical ability.

 

[king canary 7,578]

7 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Ironically- the higher we go the harder it is to bring players into the first team . You wonder if Aarons Godfrey or Lewis would have flourished in the Prem as they did in the Chumps. Looking at the path of say Tammy Abrahams he had to go out before he was good enough - and that  brings risks of its own. 

Abraham is an interesting case- him and Chelsea are actually huge beneficiary's of the transfer ban they've been put under. In my opinion he has been good enough to be playing a role at Chelsea for a couple of seasons now.

[Branston Pickle 3,634]

To be fair, with younger players you do have to look at what you already have and be sure that another guy would be an improvement - it’s a difficult call and you’ll never get them all right. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree entirely GPB. It would obviously be easier to give players a go in the championship than it is in the premier league. I think sending the players out on loan is a good thing. My point really is that I am a little disappointed that of the players we are sending out on loan who are 19/20 or even 21 very few seem to be holding down a regular starting place at a level which suggests that they are close to even becoming starters in the championship.

For example I would expect a player who has played at Belgium U21 level to be able to earn a starting place in the Blackpool team at league 1 level.

I am sure though that physically they learn a lot though from playing lower league or non league football (or Scottish football) and that can only stand them in good stead and with some of these youngsters that's probably what these loans are aimed at because we no doubt recruit looking for primarily technical ability.

 

Rocky Bushiri is 19. He was part of Belgium's U21 side that beat Germany last week and top their group. We gave him a four year contract. Don't be too keen to write him off based on league appearances for Blackpool.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Rocky Bushiri is 19. He was part of Belgium's U21 side that beat Germany last week and top their group. We gave him a four year contract. Don't be too keen to write him off based on league appearances for Blackpool.

Not writing him off at all Nutty. Clearly if a player is playing regularly for Belgium's U21s then they have some decent talent. I assume what we are looking for with his loan is physical development having come from a less physical league. I would though like to see him get a few games for Blackpool before the season is out so hopefully he can force his way into their team over the second half of the season.

I was also a bit disappointed that we sent that other young centre back we have (whose name escapes me now) on loan to a non league side last season as well but again perhaps its a "character building" thing!

James Husband is currently starting for them as a centre back in a back 3 so I think when trying to judge what sort of level he's currently at that is quite a helpful barometer!

I'd love to see Idah go out on loan in preparation for next season and quite like what I've seen of that Hondermark too plus a couple of the young strikers in the younger sides seem to know where the net is and have a lot of potential. 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

Abraham is an interesting case- him and Chelsea are actually huge beneficiary's of the transfer ban they've been put under. In my opinion he has been good enough to be playing a role at Chelsea for a couple of seasons now.

Very good point. Also suggests that the transfer ban and FL's appointment was a match made in heaven. Without it, and a £200m transfer chest would FL , or Abraham have got a look in?

[king canary 7,578]

12 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Very good point. Also suggests that the transfer ban and FL's appointment was a match made in heaven. Without it, and a £200m transfer chest would FL , or Abraham have got a look in?

Chelsea seemed mainly to view the academy as a cash cow- loaning out youngsters and them selling them for tidy amounts while buying ready-made players for the first team. This ban has forced them to reassess and I hope it lasts.

[Van wink 2,994]

@NorwichCityAcad

“Our Under-18s put a dominant performance in today to take all three points and progress to the quarter-finals of the #U18PLCup. Great work, lads!”

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

On 17/11/2019 at 16:02, nutty nigel said:

With the first team: Aarons, Lewis, Godfrey, Cantwell, Famewo, Idah.

On Loan: Barden, Bushiri, Richards, Coley, Gilmour, Jaiyesimi, Mourgos, Payne, Power, Bloomfield, Spyrou.

 

Don’t forget Oxborough, who is having a superb season for Wealdstone 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

12 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Don’t forget Oxborough, who is having a superb season for Wealdstone 

Carlton Morris is at Rotherham too.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

On 16/11/2019 at 10:37, pete said:

The Academy upon what so much hope has been placed is not pulling up trees in any way, it may be early days but the results are not there to inspire hope in the current set up.  Under 23's one place of bottom with one win Sunderland bottom.  Under 18's one win all season that to bottom of league Sunderland.  Our academy success in last few years was FAYC which gave us the Murphy brothers and few others who have carved out significant careers.  The academy didn't yeild Aarons or Lewis provided care of Luton or Godfrey from York maybe polished at Colney maybe already not.  Maybe we have sent the gems out on loan to Holland a la Cantwell but not seen any reports of similar progress at present.

Given our previous track record with producing our own youngsters hope this will be the case but seems unlikely.  Adam Idah the next off the conveyor belt has faded from sight and has not been seen recently although in Irish u23 squad.  Tristan Abraham although operating at a low level has been notching on a regular basis and looks he could have been a prospect was released last summer cannot place others who have even looked capable Morris at Rotherham looks next prospect to fall by wayside.

Until the academy starts to produce this seems to be an expensive endeavour we can little afford at present perhaps we ought to be picking off youngsters from Luton they seem to be better at it.

  

Must of read your post and used it as an inspiration, u18s won 3-0 at Everton this weekend and U21 have beat Reading 1-0 tonight

[ged in the onion bag 854]

On 16/11/2019 at 10:46, keelansgrandad said:

So if we had been top of our respective academy leagues we would be OK? Results in that area mean little. You have to take into account the ages. We have often put 16/17 year olds in the U21s.

My son's friend was coach of Truro City's reserve team. Truro were at that stage in National League South. He resigned because the club Chairman, a night club owner (who still owes me money for graphic design work I did for him) said he wanted the reserves told of the table. When Ant told him the first team manager wanted the reserves to play exactly the same style as the first team and results didn't matter, the Chairman took it upon himself to tell him to ignore what the coach said and get the team top of the table. 

Am curious, what league do Truro reserves play in?      Never heard of them!     

 

[First Wazzock 902]

Cat got your tongue Pete?