The fabled academy

[pete 371]

The Academy upon what so much hope has been placed is not pulling up trees in any way, it may be early days but the results are not there to inspire hope in the current set up.  Under 23's one place of bottom with one win Sunderland bottom.  Under 18's one win all season that to bottom of league Sunderland.  Our academy success in last few years was FAYC which gave us the Murphy brothers and few others who have carved out significant careers.  The academy didn't yeild Aarons or Lewis provided care of Luton or Godfrey from York maybe polished at Colney maybe already not.  Maybe we have sent the gems out on loan to Holland a la Cantwell but not seen any reports of similar progress at present.

Given our previous track record with producing our own youngsters hope this will be the case but seems unlikely.  Adam Idah the next off the conveyor belt has faded from sight and has not been seen recently although in Irish u23 squad.  Tristan Abraham although operating at a low level has been notching on a regular basis and looks he could have been a prospect was released last summer cannot place others who have even looked capable Morris at Rotherham looks next prospect to fall by wayside.

Until the academy starts to produce this seems to be an expensive endeavour we can little afford at present perhaps we ought to be picking off youngsters from Luton they seem to be better at it.

  

[Herman 11,136]

What joy do you get out of supporting City, if any?

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

So if we had been top of our respective academy leagues we would be OK? Results in that area mean little. You have to take into account the ages. We have often put 16/17 year olds in the U21s.

My son's friend was coach of Truro City's reserve team. Truro were at that stage in National League South. He resigned because the club Chairman, a night club owner (who still owes me money for graphic design work I did for him) said he wanted the reserves told of the table. When Ant told him the first team manager wanted the reserves to play exactly the same style as the first team and results didn't matter, the Chairman took it upon himself to tell him to ignore what the coach said and get the team top of the table. 

[wcorkcanary 4,781]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

What joy do you get , if any?

Sometimes less is more Hermano. 😉

Edited November 16, 2019 by wcorkcanary
I'm an idiot.

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

45 minutes ago, pete said:

The Academy upon what so much hope has been placed is not pulling up trees in any way, it may be early days but the results are not there to inspire hope in the current set up.  Under 23's one place of bottom with one win Sunderland bottom.  Under 18's one win all season that to bottom of league Sunderland.  Our academy success in last few years was FAYC which gave us the Murphy brothers and few others who have carved out significant careers.  The academy didn't yeild Aarons or Lewis provided care of Luton or Godfrey from York maybe polished at Colney maybe already not.  Maybe we have sent the gems out on loan to Holland a la Cantwell but not seen any reports of similar progress at present.

Given our previous track record with producing our own youngsters hope this will be the case but seems unlikely.  Adam Idah the next off the conveyor belt has faded from sight and has not been seen recently although in Irish u23 squad.  Tristan Abraham although operating at a low level has been notching on a regular basis and looks he could have been a prospect was released last summer cannot place others who have even looked capable Morris at Rotherham looks next prospect to fall by wayside.

Until the academy starts to produce this seems to be an expensive endeavour we can little afford at present perhaps we ought to be picking off youngsters from Luton they seem to be better at it.

  

They are all on loan to other clubs, our under 23s is basically under 19s! I would not read into it too much

[FenwayFrank 2,715]

52 minutes ago, Herman said:

What joy do you get out of supporting City, if any?

You think Pete supports city ?

[Herman 11,136]

2 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

You think Pete supports city ?

I hope he doesn't. I fear he does.😀

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,220]

International break means our Pete has to find another way of attacking NCFC........

[nutty nigel 7,902]

1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

They are all on loan to other clubs

Except for the ones with the first team👍

We shouldn't have told Pete though. It's often more fun to see how many numb nuts agree with him🙃

Edited November 16, 2019 by nutty nigel

[nutty nigel 7,902]

Numb nuts without the space is banned!

I'm off to confession 🛐

[Ian 1,209]

Really, Pete?

[wcorkcanary 4,781]

Just now, Ian said:

Really, Pete?

He's not even worth questioning, Iano. Beyond tedious. Below ridicule. Sad case indeed.

[Capt. Pants 5,005]

Bloody hell this is scraping the barrel in terms of things to moan about. There is much more to a young player's development, on and off the pitch, than league table position.

[Ian 1,209]

1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

He's not even worth questioning, Iano. Beyond tedious. Below ridicule. Sad case indeed.

Indeed, I couldn't really be bothered to type out the few words it would have taken to show the ridiculousness of his argument. Sad.

 

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

58 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Except for the ones with the first team👍

We shouldn't have told Pete though. It's often more fun to see how many numb nuts agree with him🙃

Love the academy arrangement, got high hopes for Gilmour next season and them two strikers for the U18’s have a bright future! I’d be sad if anyone agrees with him, the lads are better off playing league 1 getting used to the kicks, over prem U23

[Well b back 3,603]

Op you have shot yourself in the foot with fake news.

Had they not been in the first team Aaron’s, Godfrey and Cantwell would have been in the under 23’s as of course would Maddison have also been but he developed even quicker. Add to that the players we have on loan I think you are talking complete and utter garbage.

Your academy at the binners simply take in our academy cast offs and those that you do get that are any good ala Jordan Rhodes you tell are not good enough.

[Jobsworth Canary 168]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

What joy do you get out of supporting City, if any?

He makes me look like a bundle of joy in comparison 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Jobsworth Canary

[East Rider 589]

Our fabled academy has earnt a considerable sum over the last few years (Murphy's et el)

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,261]

To paraphrase Webber, we're gearing our academy structure towards producing great players not great teams. I'm sure he's done at least 2 or 3 interviews about this, why do some people just refuse to listen or absorb information?

[nutty nigel 7,902]

2 hours ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

He makes me look like a bundle of joy in comparison 

You're a proper ray of sunshine..

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,786]

7 hours ago, pete said:

The Academy upon what so much hope has been placed is not pulling up trees in any way, it may be early days but the results are not there to inspire hope in the current set up.  Under 23's one place of bottom with one win Sunderland bottom.  Under 18's one win all season that to bottom of league Sunderland.  Our academy success in last few years was FAYC which gave us the Murphy brothers and few others who have carved out significant careers.  The academy didn't yeild Aarons or Lewis provided care of Luton or Godfrey from York maybe polished at Colney maybe already not.  Maybe we have sent the gems out on loan to Holland a la Cantwell but not seen any reports of similar progress at present.

Given our previous track record with producing our own youngsters hope this will be the case but seems unlikely.  Adam Idah the next off the conveyor belt has faded from sight and has not been seen recently although in Irish u23 squad.  Tristan Abraham although operating at a low level has been notching on a regular basis and looks he could have been a prospect was released last summer cannot place others who have even looked capable Morris at Rotherham looks next prospect to fall by wayside.

Until the academy starts to produce this seems to be an expensive endeavour we can little afford at present perhaps we ought to be picking off youngsters from Luton they seem to be better at it.

  

Pete you are comedy gold and well worth a nibble. Bravo for getting our attention again.

Of course you are either clueless , a binner, or you just enjoy the sport. So here goes.

Our academy hasn't produced another Murphy . So it has failed? You really think that's how the modern academy works? We get lads from Bressingham Under 8's and turn them into prem players?

Here is how it actually works.

Players like Aarons , Lewis , Idah and Adshead sign for the Club, because of the academy. You think that Dan Adshead , a talented under 17 playing for Rochdale and England, with major Clubs sniffing around him , chose Norwich because … well why Pete? Because he was going to break into the first team this year? No it was because of the Academy, Pete.

Why did Aarons and Lewis join us from Luton? See above.

Adam Idah was never on the Murphy's "conveyor belt" Pete. He joined in 2017 as an academy scholar from Corinthians. Why?  Because he thought Norfolk was a nice place to live? No.  It was because the Academy , with it's Cat1 , attracts players of his calibre.

They join us because of the Academy Pete. BECAUSE OF THE ACADEMY . The Academy does not only pick up 8 year olds and make them into first team players.

Oh and we pay them a few quid too.

Have a nice evening mate. I enjoy taking the bait.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Graham Paddons Beard

[hogesar 10,761]

9 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Love the academy arrangement, got high hopes for Gilmour next season and them two strikers for the U18’s have a bright future! I’d be sad if anyone agrees with him, the lads are better off playing league 1 getting used to the kicks, over prem U23

Exactly. If we have professional clubs wanting our youth players on loan that's a great thing to start with - and like you say proper football is far more likely to encourage development than playing meaningless u23 matches.

So meaningless that the u23s dont even focus on results! It's all about style of play etc. So not even worth treating the results with any real credibility.

[wcorkcanary 4,781]

The Academy is the Club if we are serious about  being self funding.  Build from the bottom up. Makes sense. 

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

Our Academy 1 status is a feather in our cap. There are only 24 clubs at present who can claim this status, with many "bigger" clubs not included eg. Leeds, Wednesday and Forest and also there are some clubs currently in the Premier League who have been unable to achieve this status, notably Sheff. U., Palace and Burnley.

Quote: "Category One status is extremely hard to achieve and takes real commitment from the club. Any football academies that have this status is a show of the quality of the coaching, equipment, facilities and strategic development that you can expect to find.Category One football academies also invest a lot to maintain their status. There are also some clubs that choose not to publicise their status in order to avoid being over approached by players and parents." (Football Scout site.)

Notably, and amusingly ITFC have tried and failed to gain this status on (I believe) more than one occasion. I, personally would rather our club currently have this acclaim than the "bulging" trophy cabinet (woodworm and all) that the binners  boast about on a daily basis.

Advantages, which include extra funding and the ability to "poach" further afield, surely  are that this status has allowed us to attract the likes of Madisson, Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis in the first place. 

Interestingly on  performance data @ 2017/18 City's academy came 20th. in the table. (trainingground.guru.) This presumably was calculated on a points basis based upon the success rate of youngsters produced and the level they reached in the professional game. The likes of Leeds, Palace and even Crewe were higher than us at the time, but this is unlikely to be the case for much longer considering the vast improvement in facilities instigated by the bond issue.

In sum, any City supporter questioning the viability of our EPPP status is being stupid in the extreme.

Our aim must now be to emulate the following top five successful Academy 1 Clubs (c. 2018) :-

 

• 1. SOUTHAMPTON. Over the past few years the Southampton academy has become a beacon of homegrown talent in England. ...
• 2. MANCHESTER UNITED. ...
• 3. LIVERPOOL. ...
• 4. EVERTON. ...
• 5. ASTON VILLA.

If Southampton can come out top of that illustrious pile then so can we.

Our yo-yo status is frustrating, our reputation as the paupers among the elite is even more so. The Academy One route is currently the only way our club can belie these labels.

P.S. Interestingly, I now note that the OP's previously instigated topic on this forum is entitled "A club without ambition." Talk about shooting one's self in the foot.

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by BroadstairsR

[wcorkcanary 4,781]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Our Academy 1 status is a feather in our cap. There are only 24 clubs at present who can claim this status, with many "bigger" clubs not included eg. Leeds, Wednesday and Forest and also there are some clubs currently in the Premier League who have been unable to achieve this status, notably Sheff. U., Palace and Burnley.

Quote: "Category One status is extremely hard to achieve and takes real commitment from the club. Any football academies that have this status is a show of the quality of the coaching, equipment, facilities and strategic development that you can expect to find.Category One football academies also invest a lot to maintain their status. There are also some clubs that choose not to publicise their status in order to avoid being over approached by players and parents." (Football Scout site.)

Notably, and amusingly ITFC have tried and failed to gain this status on (I believe) more than one occasion. I, personally would rather our club currently have this acclaim than the "bulging" trophy cabinet (woodworm and all) that the binners  boast about on a daily basis.

Advantages, which include extra funding and the ability to "poach" further afield, surely  are that this status has allowed us to attract the likes of Madisson, Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis in the first place. 

Interestingly on  performance data @ 2017/18 City's academy came 20th. in the table. (trainingground.guru.) This presumably was calculated on a points basis based upon the success rate of youngsters produced and the level they reached in the professional game. The likes of Leeds, Palace and even Crewe were higher than us at the time, but this is unlikely to be the case for much longer considering the vast improvement in facilities instigated by the bond issue.

In sum, any City supporter questioning the viability of our EPPP status is being stupid in the extreme.

Our aim must now be to emulate the following top five successful Academy 1 Clubs (c. 2018) :-

 

• 1. SOUTHAMPTON. Over the past few years the Southampton academy has become a beacon of homegrown talent in England. ...
• 2. MANCHESTER UNITED. ...
• 3. LIVERPOOL. ...
• 4. EVERTON. ...
• 5. ASTON VILLA.

If Southampton can come out top of that illustrious pile then so can we.

Our yo-yo status is frustrating, our reputation as the paupers among the elite is even more so. The Academy One route is currently the only way our club can belie these labels.

P.S. Interestingly, I now note that the OP's previously instigated topic on this forum is entitled "A club without ambition." Talk about shooting one's self in the foot.

 

We don't  agree on some things Broado but I thank you for  finding that article that validates  what so many reasonable  posters on here have tried to say. Have a good  Sunday. 

As a footnote,  one of the top academies in Europe, Ajax, say quite openly  on their  website,    " dont contact us,  we'll  find you if you're  good  enough "....or words to that  effect. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by wcorkcanary

[cornish sam 1,039]

I seem to remember in an early interview Webber also said that if your u23 side was winning all the time then you were doing something wrong. Meaning that if the players are that good they should be in a first team, either ours or on loan, as that was far better for their development.

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

12 hours ago, hogesar said:

Exactly. If we have professional clubs wanting our youth players on loan that's a great thing to start with - and like you say proper football is far more likely to encourage development than playing meaningless u23 matches.

So meaningless that the u23s dont even focus on results! It's all about style of play etc. So not even worth treating the results with any real credibility.

The U23s have been unlucky this year, also, it’s a very new team, a lot of new faces coming in. They won’t necessarily gel instantly. Next year, another year older, more development in strength, we could have a winner! They’ve shown what they can do in the chekatrade trophy. I love the idea of producing talent regular, I know I moan about the owners. But I would much rather us develop a £20mil player, than buy one! 

[hogesar 10,761]

1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

The U23s have been unlucky this year, also, it’s a very new team, a lot of new faces coming in. They won’t necessarily gel instantly. Next year, another year older, more development in strength, we could have a winner! They’ve shown what they can do in the chekatrade trophy. I love the idea of producing talent regular, I know I moan about the owners. But I would much rather us develop a £20mil player, than buy one! 

Sounds like you know far more about the u23 squad than me - not seen them once this season. But like you say the checkatrade was a good competitive idea of where they're at. And as you say, if we can develop 20mill players then we are in a better position regardless of who the owners are

[Dr Greenthumb 792]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Sounds like you know far more about the u23 squad than me - not seen them once this season. But like you say the checkatrade was a good competitive idea of where they're at. And as you say, if we can develop 20mill players then we are in a better position regardless of who the owners are

Sometimes other clubs stream their u23 games on your tube, saints and Newcastle have in recent years, so I watch them on there. If you use twitter, follow the academy page, it’s improved more this year, last year you wouldn’t hear the result for days

[nutty nigel 7,902]

With the first team: Aarons, Lewis, Godfrey, Cantwell, Famewo, Idah.

On Loan: Barden, Bushiri, Richards, Coley, Gilmour, Jaiyesimi, Mourgos, Payne, Power, Bloomfield, Spyrou.