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Just now, king canary said:

I am slightly concerned that he seems to be fit but we still prefer Trybull or Tettey over him in central midfield.

Think he's  still coming back really,  he was on bench for everton and given a short run out,  probably  there to provide emergency back up in  mid and centre half if needed.  We and him are not yet at full strength,  but getting there. That's my take on it.

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1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

Yeah, it does seem a little strange if he can get into the the starting 11 to fill in as a central defender, but not in his preferred position. Has Farke been asked what’s going on with him?

Coming back from injury,  being  eased back is my guess. 

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16 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Coming back from injury,  being  eased back is my guess. 

Let’s hope so, there was pretty much universal demand for a new defensive midfielder in the transfer window (although once again Tettey has done us proud) and Amadou seemed a great recruit. If I remember rightly, BYG (where’s he gone BTW?) said there was a lot of excitement within the club when he signed.

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Every football squad has a mix of personalities, the good, the bad and the ugly.

That's impossible to avoid, it's human nature.

Sometimes assessment of these various traits is based upon stereotyping or flimsy evidence.

I have always had the impression, for right or wrong, that M.Leitner could be a slightly 'difficult' proposition to handle at times, but that term might be an exaggeration as there are different complexions, different interpretations in force here. He's not exactly a Di Canio, a Pogba or even a Geogie Best after all. However, I seem to recall rumours that he had had issues in his past.

Likewise Buendia. Petulant, temperamental and Argentinian. Massive stereotyping indeed but containing an element of truth nonetheless.

Even Grant Holt and Wes Hoolahan had their moments apparently. 

Is it by co-incidence that often these players are the most talented? Gareth Bale gives managers problems it seems and we had our own "bad boy" Oliveira, who never quite lived up to the expectations enhanced by his talent.

Handling this mix of personality to the benefit of the team effort is another major part of every manager's job.

 

Farke seems pretty good at it (wee Alex possible less so in the end.)

I would not expect us to lose any talented player for reasons of temperament in the near future. Overall they seem to be a well integrated group that can deal with such issues. Financial matters might influence changes more.

 

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It has been said before, but for that injury ML received I suspect he would have played most of last season. Prior to the injury he was generally a class act and set the tempo for us. He was a very enjoyable player to watch.

I wonder if we now have a settled back line and with a regular DM alongside him whether he could produce the performances again. A lot of our team were underperforming due to our patched up defence not just ML.

However I am a big admirer of Tom Trybul, he rarely has a poor game and I would not want to see him lose his place.

Who'd be a manager eh?

 

 

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At number 10 at the moment we have Mclean or Stieperman. In central mid we have Tetty, Trybull , Amadou and Vrancic. I would suggest that Leitner is next choice  due to current form.

Edited by The Bristol Nest

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Let's face it, we haven't had many games this season where we've been able to play the combination of a strong tackling defensive midfielder with a creative passer like Leitner.  There were times in the Watford game where he'd have been a good option to link the midfield to Hernandez and Pukki.

But as has been said - you wouldn't want him in a defensive midfield role without Tettey or Amadou beside him if we're playing 4-2-3-1. And right now, Tettey, Trybull and Amadou are ahead of him and there's Cantwell, Buendia, Hernandez, Stiepermann and McLean for the more attacking roles.  It's hard to see where he'd fit in and who for.

 

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4 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

 If I remember rightly, BYG (where’s he gone BTW?) said there was a lot of excitement within the club when he signed.

I was wondering the same thing, Nuff! He's still active on Twitter.

Probably somehow got sucked into the Brexit thread on here and now regrets ever signing up to the Pink Un!

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1 hour ago, BobLoz3 said:

I was wondering the same thing, Nuff! He's still active on Twitter.

Probably somehow got sucked into the Brexit thread on here and now regrets ever signing up to the Pink Un!

He probably felt lonely as one of the few posters on here who actually had some knowledge of what’s going on at the club and how the football “industry” works, so decided to go elsewhere. ☹️

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2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

He probably felt lonely as one of the few posters on here who actually had some knowledge of what’s going on at the club and how the football “industry” works, so decided to go elsewhere. ☹️

I miss Bethnal.

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9 hours ago, BobLoz3 said:

I was wondering the same thing, Nuff! He's still active on Twitter.

Probably somehow got sucked into the Brexit thread on here and now regrets ever signing up to the Pink Un!

Bethnal, in all his years here, has only really ever been active on this message board during the the transfer windows, or just before. Why that is, I do not know.

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On 27/11/2019 at 08:05, king canary said:

I thought he'd begun to struggle earlier this season before his move to number 10- Villa for instance targetted him and he didn't cope with it well.

Yes Villa absolutely targeted him and he had a mare that day. If you watch the highlights back from that game virtually every chance they had came from them pressing and dispossessing Leitner about 35/40 yards from our goal. 

That's not in itself reason to drop him though, everyone has a bad day from time to time and he was exposed by not having a holding midfielder alongside him to sweep up when he lost the ball. He was given no protection by our system in that game and I am sue that tactically we could adjust to prevent that from happening in future games.

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12 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Bethnal, in all his years here, has only really ever been active on this message board during the the transfer windows, or just before. Why that is, I do not know.

You’re right. Presumably it’s  because it’s his Mastermind subject - the most info & analysis to offer. Very welcome it is, too!

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I saw a tweet about our team v Villa and our team v Everton.

v Villa: McGovern, Aarons, Amadou, Godfrey, Lewis; Leitner, McLean, Buendia, Stiepermann, Cantwell; Pukki

v Everton: Krul, Aarons, Zimmermann, Godfrey, Byram; Tettey, Trybull; Cantwell, Hernandez, McLean; Pukki

A holding pair of McLean and Leitner is possibly as weak as we could have been.

 

 

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Leitner has been perhaps the most disappointing player this season for me.

I don't mean it in a "Oh God, he as been awful" perspective... Rather, I really had him pinned as a player who could translate really well the PL, due to his technical ability. He had a solid run of games in our poor run and I was disappointed that he didn't perform better than he did. 

He has always been a bit of a liability defensively, but could rely on his ability to control the midfield from deep. He's lost a lot of form and confidence which is making his defensive slights show a lot more. The villa game is a great example of this. 

With Vrancic coming back in to the picture, I think Mo is going to have to work extremely hard to get back into a starting xi. Especially if we are potentially looking to play a pairing of Tettey/Trybull/Amadou more often.

If there is any truth to the rumours he is being an **** behind the scenes, he will have to nip that in the bud ASAP - or he will likely never play Premier League football again. 

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If we had continued to play as we did in those first three games he would probably still be in every week but with us being on a bad run and conceding goals for a variety of reasons it seems Farke took the decision to shore up the middle of the field with two holding midfielders in front of (finally) two specialist Centre Halfs. if this allows us to rebuild some confidence and to 'stop the rot' I expect both he and Vrancic will start to appear more again. 

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4 hours ago, HertsCanary93 said:

Leitner has been perhaps the most disappointing player this season for me.

I don't mean it in a "Oh God, he as been awful" perspective... Rather, I really had him pinned as a player who could translate really well the PL, due to his technical ability. He had a solid run of games in our poor run and I was disappointed that he didn't perform better than he did. 

He has always been a bit of a liability defensively, but could rely on his ability to control the midfield from deep. He's lost a lot of form and confidence which is making his defensive slights show a lot more. The villa game is a great example of this. 

With Vrancic coming back in to the picture, I think Mo is going to have to work extremely hard to get back into a starting xi. Especially if we are potentially looking to play a pairing of Tettey/Trybull/Amadou more often.

If there is any truth to the rumours he is being an **** behind the scenes, he will have to nip that in the bud ASAP - or he will likely never play Premier League football again. 

I agree. I really thought he’d be one of our key players this year but it’s not happened so far for him.

 

Both he and Emi are wanting too much time on the ball, Prem teams are much better at closing you down quickly especially if the identify you as a threat on the ball.

 

After Saturday I can’t see McLean losing the no 10 spot anytime soon, because he gives us a realistic long ball out as an option, I don’t think we have another player who does that and can play there.

 

Which puts our remaining 2 midfield places under a lot of competition.

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Leitners technically excellent with the ball at this feet but hasn't got much of an engine, is slow and too lightweight in the tackle.

 

The lack of the above physical aspects are why Leitner is not good enough for the Premiership.

 

Theirs an often used urban myth about getting more time and space in the Premiership but in reality due to playing against fitter, stronger, faster and technically better players who make less mistakes in reality the opposites the truth!

 

Tettey is one of the few players whose legs have gone that can just about sometimes get by in the top flight!  

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Heard something over the weekend about Leitner behaving extremely unprofessionally at a children’s Xmas event a few weeks back which would fit in with the theories about his attitude. Came from a trusted source too. 

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2 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Heard something over the weekend about Leitner behaving extremely unprofessionally at a children’s Xmas event a few weeks back which would fit in with the theories about his attitude. Came from a trusted source too. 

I think there has been some kind of bust-up. I gather he has been back to Germany recently, which could have been to clear his head, or to talk to other clubs, or both. If we want to sign a non-homegrown player this winter one of the overseas players has to go, which presumably means him or Heise.

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11 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Heard something over the weekend about Leitner behaving extremely unprofessionally at a children’s Xmas event a few weeks back which would fit in with the theories about his attitude. Came from a trusted source too. 

Let me guess, he snuck Lakey in and they hit the Drambuie? 

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11 hours ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Heard something over the weekend about Leitner behaving extremely unprofessionally at a children’s Xmas event a few weeks back which would fit in with the theories about his attitude. Came from a trusted source too. 

Did he cheat at jenga?

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I believe he suggested to one of the kids that Santa was actually their dad dressed up. No place in our club for that kind of thing.

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He did soak Farke with an ice bucket after victory celebrations to win promotion and we all recall how Bentley vanished into thin air after he did the same thing to Harry Rednapp.

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Part of the frustration may well stem from the fact that of all of our players he looked the most suited to do well in the Premier.

That he hasn’t is a surprise to most - Farke included - and it’s fairly undeniable that his lack of physicality, coupled with less time, coupled with a higher standard of better-coordinated opposition press, has simply seen him targeted and squeezed out of games. Because he has a magnetic quality to his game - he attracts the ball from others, even if sometimes he shouldn’t have it - he becomes a repeated fulcrum and the opposition can employ ‘stop Leitner, stop Norwich’ tactics. 

He is what he is as a player, so change or reinvention isn’t much of an option. This very much leads to an impasse. He’s a super player, but the Premier is unforgiving and his defensive work just isn’t strong enough for a team that must (unfortunately) often play on the back foot.

Thus there are a not a lot of chance of him getting back into the 1st xi currently and he is nevertheless a fine player to sit around watching from the stands. This often leads to minor fall outs and issues because it’s a bloody frustrating and unexpected - not least from Farke and Leitner’s perspectives - state of affairs. 

Could easily still be the best player in the Championship mind, so some cute managerial skills required.

Parma

 

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As an addendum: Many on here talk about recruitment, who should be bought, what they are worth, how we should push the boat out, but not risking the finances and much other hindsightful whataboutery. 

Here we had a player who the Manager, fans and squad were unified in believing would be a key and central pillar to our Premier campaign. We knew him so well, his character, his tendencies, weaknesses, he was established at the club, trusted, established in the country, the area....and it hasn’t worked out. 

If you were Villa or Sheffield United and you’d bought him for £15m in the summer, we’d have all been raging and they would have been gloating. 

And yet......

Parma

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17 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I think there has been some kind of bust-up. I gather he has been back to Germany recently, which could have been to clear his head, or to talk to other clubs, or both. If we want to sign a non-homegrown player this winter one of the overseas players has to go, which presumably means him or Heise.

I had also heard Farke told him to go back to Germany due to issues with his attitude/professionalism.

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11 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I had also heard Farke told him to go back to Germany due to issues with his attitude/professionalism.

A very reliable source of mine told me that his professionalism was one of  the highest in the club, but that was last season. At the time he took his profession very seriously so I doubt that it’s changed that much. 

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