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TeemuVanBasten

Is 'The Model' flawed?

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4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I could accept the model if we played a young centre half which enabled us to strengthen the midfield. Instead we played a makeshift  team in a match that we simply must not lose. Last week at Brighton we were shocking and the exact same team is rewarded with yet another start in arguably our most important match of the season. Sorry but that was not great from Farke and leaves us nailed on relegation.

Add to that not giving Roberts a chance on the right and allowing Buendia to play his natural game as a #10.

I think Buendia could be a top class number 10, he's never going to be suitable to playing so deep.

Its the equivalent of when we tried to play Hoolahan as a winger.... we're not going to get the most out of arguably our most naturally talented player when he's left doing so many defensive duties.

He should press in that number 10 role of course, but he should never be back helping the right back out. 

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I’m not convinced a couple of £20m signings would make a difference to this squad. They have to step up, and we have to back them to have even a slim chance of staying up. The 8 games less in the Premier also makes the learning curve a lot steeper.

Sadly, even a billionaire owner guarantees nothing - there are now so many bankrolling clubs, that putting in millions doesn’t guarantee a stay in the Premier.

It all makes football a bit pointless, the odds were always on for a non-competitive season this year - as a reward for last seasons success.  

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7 hours ago, hogesar said:

Yeah course I could look silly.

But put it this way, I trust Webbers judgement far more than I do you. So I'll put my eggs in his basket, so to speak.

Also, I shouldn't have to explain the model. The club have done it for me, continuously, since Webber joined. 

The model and the way Webber and the team are working, is fine. It’s the criminal backing they are getting to support it

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8 hours ago, hogesar said:

Yeah course I could look silly.

But put it this way, I trust Webbers judgement far more than I do you. So I'll put my eggs in his basket, so to speak.

Also, I shouldn't have to explain the model. The club have done it for me, continuously, since Webber joined. 

H, can I suggest you read the Huddersfield examiner for 27/4/17. See what they make of the ‘model’ Webber introduced there. It’s not a new concept at all, but was introduced by Webber in his early and formative years there before moving to Norwich City, where low and behold, he introduced it here? He even went back to the club where he took Wagner from to get Farke. And the former couldn’t stop relegation either. And where are Huddersfield now?! You might like to rephrase about ‘trusting his judgement’!

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The ‘model’ is working precisely and perfectly to the plan that it was intended to do. Getting promotion to the PL and then banking all that nasty money that’s ruining football to put the club in a healthy financial position and ensuring it can be kept within the grasp of the Smith family 

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For me a flaw in “the model” is also that it takes away hope and ambition and without that I’m not sure you have the same club. I certainly can’t be the only one who finds myself questioning “what is the point” walking away from Carrow Road after last night? I think there is a real risk of the whole club collectively feeling the same next season if our “target” is to get up just for another season of misery.

let’s be honest, the model is in reality nothing more than necessity. It’s the only way our owners can keep hold of a club they cannot really afford to run. It’s not the best chance we have of success.

im also nervous about the performance of our older academy sides this season if we are reliant on kids coming through for this model. We were lucky to have 4 come through at once last season. Aside from Idah I’m not sure who else is waiting in the wings and our academy results have got worse under Webber. I know our focus now is not on results at that level but.....

 

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7 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

For me a flaw in “the model” is also that it takes away hope and ambition and without that I’m not sure you have the same club. I certainly can’t be the only one who finds myself questioning “what is the point” walking away from Carrow Road after last night? I think there is a real risk of the whole club collectively feeling the same next season if our “target” is to get up just for another season of misery.

let’s be honest, the model is in reality nothing more than necessity. It’s the only way our owners can keep hold of a club they cannot really afford to run. It’s not the best chance we have of success.

im also nervous about the performance of our older academy sides this season if we are reliant on kids coming through for this model. We were lucky to have 4 come through at once last season. Aside from Idah I’m not sure who else is waiting in the wings and our academy results have got worse under Webber. I know our focus now is not on results at that level but.....

 

Any yet most fans on here lap it up and would never want change . 

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1 hour ago, City 2nd said:

H, can I suggest you read the Huddersfield examiner for 27/4/17. See what they make of the ‘model’ Webber introduced there. It’s not a new concept at all, but was introduced by Webber in his early and formative years there before moving to Norwich City, where low and behold, he introduced it here? He even went back to the club where he took Wagner from to get Farke. And the former couldn’t stop relegation either. And where are Huddersfield now?! You might like to rephrase about ‘trusting his judgement’!

That was REALLY quick, even for this forum!

Last season: "How on earth did Webber and Farke get us promoted with a load of freebies and crocked players that cost no money when all these other teams spent 40m and failed?"

This season: "Bloody Webber, done nothing at Huddersfield, got lucky, cant trust his judgement over a random poster on a fans forum"

This is where I cant take some of these posts seriously. Alongside the fact we are apparently now keeping the prem money for "The Smiths". Now I'm just waiting to see on the next accounts where Delia withdraws 120m from the club, purchases a cruise ship and lives out sea.

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We are only committed to the model for another 3 years as Webber will be leaving after that. A new SD (if indeed we can afford to maintain that role) will almost certainly want to tweak it in some way shape or form. Nothing is forever.

With that in mind I don't why we have to be so rigid in our approach. The point made about a couple of players worth £20m not making any difference is not entirely relevant as it is made in the context of where we are now and how poorly we are playing now. Had the signings been made during the summer, who knows how we would have started. Anyway that ship has sailed now and that sort of money won't be available until the next time we are promoted, unless of course by some miracle the current squad suddenly becomes true Premiership quality overnight.

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33 minutes ago, hogesar said:

That was REALLY quick, even for this forum!

Last season: "How on earth did Webber and Farke get us promoted with a load of freebies and crocked players that cost no money when all these other teams spent 40m and failed?"

This season: "Bloody Webber, done nothing at Huddersfield, got lucky, cant trust his judgement over a random poster on a fans forum"

This is where I cant take some of these posts seriously. Alongside the fact we are apparently now keeping the prem money for "The Smiths". Now I'm just waiting to see on the next accounts where Delia withdraws 120m from the club, purchases a cruise ship and lives out sea.

Next steps:

Farke got lucky last season. The football flattered to deceive. If Sheffield Wednesday weren't on the beach etc etc etc

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It really doesn't matter what we think of the "Model". It is what it is.

Do all of us really think we are a club that is letting everyone down? Come off it. We have had several seasons in the Prem in the last ten years. And yes we have gone down.

In that time, no owner like Adam82 £300M Knight in shining armour, has come along, as far as we know. Just existing at this level is tough. The anguish one set of supporters will go through tomorrow afternoon, a set of supporters whose team will win something big this year, reflects what total success means.

We will never have total success, but the measure we have had makes being a NCFC supporter better than even a Man City supporter. We felt gutted in 2017/18 and within 12 months were euphoric. Now we are down in the dumps. So be it but lets not get carried away that there is any method that will see us stay at this level.

 

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2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Any yet most fans on here lap it up and would never want change . 

It’s not about that at all, I’m pretty sure the majority would welcome a fresh outlook, new injection of cash and larger capacity. But it’s not likely to happen, so why keep going on about it? It’s not going to change, just accept, buy into it and enjoy our success, watch our development and be satisfied, three teams will go down so there will two more sets of fans as disgruntled as you are about owners, managers players, truth is they are doing all they can within restraints of each clubs limitations. It’s accepting that’s football and that’s the Norwich are at the moment. Time will come when it will change then we will see where we end up, for now it’s what it is, just enjoy the fact this year we’re in the elite top 20 clubs in a England.

Edited by Indy

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I have a question, these couple of 20 million signings, that would improve our team, who are they? I mean a decent championship striker would cost anything upwards of 10 million, wasn’t Pukki the top scorer last year? 
 

Just curious to why everyone thinks we need to spend to bring in quality. We need to adjust the players we have and stop fitting square pegs into round holes, Tettey isn’t a CB. He’s a damn good holding midfielder we need our best players in their best positions and then play aCB even if it’s from the u 23 side! It’s not rocket science as we’ve seen this all before under Worthy who tried to play his preferred players in other roles.

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6 minutes ago, Indy said:

I have a question, these couple of 20 million signings, that would improve our team, who are they? I mean a decent championship striker would cost anything upwards of 10 million, wasn’t Pukki the top scorer last year? 
 

Just curious to why everyone thinks we need to spend to bring in quality. We need to adjust the players we have and stop fitting square pegs into round holes, Tettey isn’t a CB. He’s a damn good holding midfielder we need our best players in their best positions and then play aCB even if it’s from the u 23 side! It’s not rocket science as we’ve seen this all before under Worthy who tried to play his preferred players in other roles.

If you're looking to the championship then players like Bowen and Dack would be where I'd be looking. Dack would be a step up in the number 10 role and Bowen can play upfront or out wide and would give us much more off the bench than Drmic or Srebeny have managed.

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11 hours ago, ricardo said:

The model only falls down when you cant get back to the Prem in time for another money top up. Spend more than three seasons in the Championship and basically it starts to fall apart.

Don't disagree that benefits wear off after parachute payments but would point out that by investing in the infrastructure (e.g. training ground) we are stronger in a football sense) and by reducing/ eliminating debt, we are stronger financially.

Being debt-free, with a good academy and training set-up puts us in a far stronger position to be competitive in the future than being laden with debt with inadequate training facilities which discourage young talent from joining us. 

With two thirds of the season remaining and injured players returning, I am a long way from being ready to give on this season. However, if the worst happens, we will be in a stronger position in August 2020 than we have been following previous relegations.

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34 minutes ago, Indy said:

I have a question, these couple of 20 million signings, that would improve our team, who are they? I mean a decent championship striker would cost anything upwards of 10 million, wasn’t Pukki the top scorer last year? 
 

Just curious to why everyone thinks we need to spend to bring in quality. We need to adjust the players we have and stop fitting square pegs into round holes, Tettey isn’t a CB. He’s a damn good holding midfielder we need our best players in their best positions and then play aCB even if it’s from the u 23 side! It’s not rocket science as we’ve seen this all before under Worthy who tried to play his preferred players in oth

Two things:

1). Who on earth mentioned 2 X £20m signings, because it wasn't me. 

2). If Webber couldn't have had a good go at upgrading our number 10 position with say £8m in the summer then he's in the wrong job and hasn't got the magic touch that some claim he has perhaps? We'd be lucky to get £2m for Stiepermann.

But Callum Robinson (£7m) and Matt Clarke (£3.5m) the type of signing I was expecting to see. Bringing up a few of the best from the leagues below and giving them a shot. It's the model which has worked best for us in the past... Be it Grant Holt from League 2 to League 1 or Snodgrass from Championship to Premier League. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Neither me.

I honestly thought we'd spend about £20m/£25m. A nice conservative amount which wouldn't have crippled us (remember we have parachute payments to come). 

Perhaps £10m + £5m + £5m, on players aged 22/23/24 with their best years ahead of them.

McNally went off script by signing 29/30 year olds at the end, but he ultimately did similar when we came up and signed Howson, Bennett, Pilkington, Bennett, Johnson.... still had Howson what, 6 years later.

I honestly thought that this was going to be the model (but with 'sexier' or slightly more sophisticated players). That going up just meant that the £2m we spent on Hernandez and £1.5m on Buendia, the TV money would allow us to snap up a few targets in the £5m/£6m range that we'd been unable to afford in the Championship but who would significantly improve us, even if it were only for a promotion challenge again next season.

I just thought it meant a few Bundesliga players to upgrade a few Bundesliga II players, but spending conservatively because in the longer term we want our academy to produce a bit more consistently and we'd be bringing through a player where suitable or if one is simply good enough. 

I just honestly thought this was going to be the strategy or 'the model', and I probably still don't understand the actual model, and I think a few people are pretending that they do. 

Fact check Buendia cost us around 5 million I think you may find, but please ignore this fact as is doesn't fit your agenda.

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Our current 'Model' is wearing and modelling clothes purchased at Primark.......Whilst our current 'Model' is purposefully strutting down a plush Parisian Fashion show catwalk (oblivious to the muffled snide sniggers and chortles from the arrogant onlooking designers and affluent audience) has unfortunately due to an unexpected poor quality broken boot heel, taken a tumble and fallen off that catwalk......to the raucous uproar and delight of the viewing audience......

That's (as someone said earlier) our 'Floored Model'.....    

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3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Fact check Buendia cost us around 5 million I think you may find, but please ignore this fact as is doesn't fit your agenda.

Cork is a sh*thole, go away. 

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9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Cork is a sh*thole, go away. 

Try saying that when you're  actually  there, to some people  who live  there,  Billy  very Small bollix. There , I can trade insults too. Now how about admitting you spout shoite and react like a spoilt  child when proved wrong. Sad ,sad case.

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1 minute ago, Mello Yello said:

Let's keep it civil.....pleeze.....

Always do try, but I alter my responses to the level of the OP, otherwise they might not understand. 

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The simple fact is that the vast majority accepted what we were trying to do, reasonably comfortable with our signings, (although a few had mentioned defensive back up should be looked at), but the "go with what we got" mentality wasn't frowned upon as it looked like we had a reasonably strong enough squad to give it a good go.

Due to a few factors, injuries being a major one, it isn't working. A lot of posters and their brilliant levels of hindsight are now saying we should have bought X and definitely bought Z, and spent millions of unowned money. It's bollox.

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A plucky 27,000 attended last night.....Considering the factors of the weather, the City's big bang fireworks, our previous poor performances/results, and that the game was on the telly box.....commendable......

Hope it lasts.....

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1 minute ago, Mello Yello said:

A plucky 27,000 attended last night.....Considering the factors of the weather, the City's big bang fireworks, our previous poor performances/results, and that the game was on the telly box.....commendable......

Hope it lasts.....

So does anyone that actually  SUPPORTS  Norwich.  

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Problem is no Decent manager / Head coach will stay to long with this model 

Farke has stayed loyal this season , We gave him a chance he performed Very well and Knew how the club was being run ,

But i am not sure he will stay that much longer with his hands being tied behind his back like this 

he performs a miracle to gets us up but maybe have a relegation on his CV when it is not really his fault ,

i know if i was a Manager i would jump at the chance of a club giving it a real go and giving me every chance of competing 

also with this Model we really need a Owner who can bridge the gap of Getting in the PL 

As for Owners was it Leeds ?? who had a queue of investors wanting to buy the club if it was for sale i am sure we would have the same 

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1 hour ago, Mello Yello said:

Well I do.....

Good person! ( gender neutral as I'm not sure how you identify). Once I know,  I'll address you correctly,  until then I'll stay politically correct. Hope no offence Mello(o).

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Problem is no Decent manager / Head coach will stay to long with this model 

There aren't that many clubs around that DF can go to in this country and be able to bring in who he likes. If he really is a training ground coach then he should relish the challenge, as long as he has been told he has time to do it.

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