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Dean Coneys boots

In terms of quality

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It really is about recruitment and lack of quality. And after a wonder season we forget this side was really put together when we were struggling financially and unable to compete a division lower: 

krul, puki and maybe Amadou (in mid) might be good for this level but that is about it. After that we have some fabulous youngsters who are not far off but certainly not there yet. Eg Godfrey is making naive mistakes at time that are costly but will one day be a top player, Max attacks like the best but has much work to do defensively. Then we have a raft of players who are talented but lack the physicality off the top division being easily knocked off the ball - cantwell, leitner, emi. Then those clearly champ level or below like Hanley, the mayor, Tettey, stieperman and Srbeny. Why were so many of these retained before being tested? 

bottom line is it fair to expect this group to stay up given obviously bridge in quality?
 

how many do you think are Prem quality and would be regular starters in any other side in this division? 

 

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1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It really is about recruitment and lack of quality. And after a wonder season we forget this side was really put together when we were struggling financially and unable to compete a division lower: 

krul, puki and maybe Amadou (in mid) might be good for this level but that is about it. After that we have some fabulous youngsters who are not far off but certainly not there yet. Eg Godfrey is making naive mistakes at time that are costly but will one day be a top player, Max attacks like the best but has much work to do defensively. Then we have a raft of players who are talented but lack the physicality off the top division being easily knocked off the ball - cantwell, leitner, emi. Then those clearly champ level or below like Hanley, the mayor, Tettey, stieperman and Srbeny. Why were so many of these retained before being tested? 

bottom line is it fair to expect this group to stay up given obviously bridge in quality?
 

how many do you think are Prem quality and would be regular starters in any other side in this division? 

 

I think Hernandez and Vrancic have the ability to step up. Been very unimpressed with Buendia (so far). 

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I think the problem isn't so much the individual quality of the players, I think they would all be at least squad players for a lot of the current prem teams, more of the problem is that collectively they don't have the experience and we have had such a huge hole in our foundation through injuries our players have just not been able to adapt as a collective.

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Thing is, all our young players are at a stage where they're only going to prove their Premier League quality by uh, playing in the prem.

Equally you conveniently missed out Lewis. Oh and you've written off half our squad (at least) after 6 games. I say 6, because you weren't writing them off before that (conveniently).

Todd was one of our best performers in the first 5 matches but when the whole squad has started to struggle he's now too lightweight.

Bizarre determination from some to put down our players in whatever way possible.

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I don’t think this is true personally.

A fit Klose with Godfrey, Lewis and Aaron’s would have been a competitive if not enviable lower table back four. They are really missing that experienced leader to help offset their raw talent.

Pukki has shown he can step up, Hernandez has shown flashes, Emi for all the criticism is incredibly influential.

For me the area we are lacking quality is CM/No10. We have two good enforcers in Amadou (if he ever get a to play there) and Tettey, but there’s a bunch of very decent Championship players who just lack that step up in quality. McClean, Trybull, Stiepermann, Cantwell, Leitner...all if shown glimpses but none have been consistent.

If we hadn’t had the CB injuries I think we just needed one quality CM to dictate play and make the killer passes. But that would never be a cheap acquisition.

 

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1 hour ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Give over hogesar - this is a debating forum and I am sharing an opinion. Why so defensive?

 

I'm offering an alternative opinion (thats debating)

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5 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

A fit Klose with Godfrey, Lewis and Aaron’s would have been a competitive if not enviable lower table back four. They are really missing that experienced leader to help offset their raw talent.

 

You could easily make the argument they weren't a hugely enviable Championship back 4 based on our ability to keep teams out.

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1 minute ago, king canary said:

You could easily make the argument they weren't a hugely enviable Championship back 4 based on our ability to keep teams out.

But we didn’t play to keep teams out, you can’t just blame that on the back four

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9 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

But we didn’t play to keep teams out, you can’t just blame that on the back four

No, and that isn't what I'm doing.

It is more the assertation that we'd be that much better off with Klose back.

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20 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Emi is one where my eyes and the stats don't agree.

For me, I feel he's been largely ineffective and has given the ball away much too easily.

The stats say he's one of our best creative performers. 

I wonder if he's one who suffers a bit due to his body language- he gets frustrated and shows it meaning his negative qualities get highlighted over the positive contributions. 

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15 minutes ago, king canary said:

Emi is one where my eyes and the stats don't agree.

For me, I feel he's been largely ineffective and has given the ball away much too easily.

The stats say he's one of our best creative performers. 

I wonder if he's one who suffers a bit due to his body language- he gets frustrated and shows it meaning his negative qualities get highlighted over the positive contributions. 

Completely agree,  if you'd asked me for my opinion and all I had to go on was our games I've watched this season, I'd say Emi has had maybe one or two good games, but failed to make much of his opportunity in the rest. Stats aren't everything, but in this case, I suspect they are showing that I am a naive supporter who only sees the obvious stuff, and that there are many, more subtle aspects that I'm missing. I think Kenny McLean was another example last season. 

 

Which is one reason why in Farke I trust (if that doesn't make me sound like Yoda).

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I am most baffled by the must drop Emi debate -  No he has not sparkled like he did last season,  but that applies to the whole squad with exception of Krul.      

He has run down more blind alleys this season, but that is probably due to the lack of numbers getting forward at the moment,  but that is balanced by the fact he is still the teams prime creator - 2nd in assists in the league as NN points out but also leading the league in chances created by players not in the big 6 (more than Maddison etc).   In addition no players has made more tackles in total OR per appearance than him.

 

We do have problems (CB & due to CB the CDM area) but thinking Emi is at the top of them and should be dropped is simply shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

  

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16 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Completely agree,  if you'd asked me for my opinion and all I had to go on was our games I've watched this season, I'd say Emi has had maybe one or two good games, but failed to make much of his opportunity in the rest. Stats aren't everything, but in this case, I suspect they are showing that I am a naive supporter who only sees the obvious stuff, and that there are many, more subtle aspects that I'm missing. I think Kenny McLean was another example last season. 

 

Which is one reason why in Farke I trust (if that doesn't make me sound like Yoda).

There was a really good article about Pukki by Michael Cox on the Athletic (paywall and all that) that discussed our attacking issues. His main criticism of Emi was around his decision making which I think stacks up.

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Yes Emi has made 4 assists this season, one against Liverpool, one against Chelsea and two against Man City, games in which we scored six goals, since then no assists and we've only scored 2 goals in six matches.  So, it appears if Emi doesn't perform we don't score, so do we only select him for games against the so called big boys or get to the root cause of the problem (whatever that may be) and get him firing on all cylinders again. 

Getting him firing all all cylinders again is what I guess Farke gets the big bucks for.  Over to you Daniel, get him up and running again or make the appropriate changes, whatever they may be?

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4 hours ago, king canary said:

No, and that isn't what I'm doing.

It is more the assertation that we'd be that much better off with Klose back.

Personally I think we would be significantly improved with Klose replacing one of our makeshift midfield central defenders, I’m not sure why you feel otherwise?

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1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Personally I think we would be significantly improved with Klose replacing one of our makeshift midfield central defenders, I’m not sure why you feel otherwise?

Because our defence wasn't all that in the league below with him or Zimmerman fit and playing.

We'd probably be better but I'm not sure we'd be loads better.

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7 minutes ago, king canary said:

Because our defence wasn't all that in the league below with him or Zimmerman fit and playing.

We'd probably be better but I'm not sure we'd be loads better.

But the team was better that’s the point, we were much more assured, creative and scoring goals. That defence were never going to pick up clean sheets with two full backs who often played more like wingers but as a whole the team performed.

At the minute having 1 out of 4 a makeshift defender is one of our main issues and we need another decent centre back, but preferably for me the guy that looked PL standard not that long ago. It’s not the only issue but I disagree we wouldn’t be much better, I think we’ve lost confidence, team cohesion and balance through not having another fit centre half. It’s massively effected us and can’t be understated.

 

Edited by Monty13

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21 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

When Nutty posted this the other day (yesterday?), did you not see it, ignore it or have you just conveniently forgotten it?
 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/goal_assist

6D4F3E0A-3A5D-4F5C-A3D7-9396FAF41FDE.jpeg

I didn’t see it, thanks for assuming I spend my life on a newspaper forum! I haven’t been impressed with his all round play-carries the ball too much and loses it when a pass is on, gets tackled in silly areas, falls over feigning injury after said tackle, etc. So thanks for talking down at me at me and showing 4 assists in 11 games, I am still not impressed with what I have seen, given how good he was last season. 

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1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

I didn’t see it, thanks for assuming I spend my life on a newspaper forum! I haven’t been impressed with his all round play-carries the ball too much and loses it when a pass is on, gets tackled in silly areas, falls over feigning injury after said tackle, etc. So thanks for talking down at me at me and showing 4 assists in 11 games, I am still not impressed with what I have seen, given how good he was last season. 

You’re welcome.

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17 hours ago, king canary said:

Because our defence wasn't all that in the league below with him or Zimmerman fit and playing.

We'd probably be better but I'm not sure we'd be loads better.

Did you not see Klose play in the Premiership previously ? It all went wrong when he got injured at Palace. Up until then he was keeping us up single handed. 

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4 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

You’re welcome.

Good talk, I look forward to you posting somebody else’s football knowledge, seeing as you don’t have any to share yourself! 

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2 hours ago, Well b back said:

Did you not see Klose play in the Premiership previously ? It all went wrong when he got injured at Palace. Up until then he was keeping us up single handed. 

I did. I also saw the three seasons between those and this. He can play at this level but I don't think he'd suddenly make us rock solid.

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