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Maybe a few points more but still mired? In the bottom six was much what was expected by most City fans.

How much were you actually expecting paddy?

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Fair enough, perhaps a dramatic choice of word!

I expected to be in and around the relegation spots for pretty much the entire season. But I expected to be more competitive in most games, to be creating more good chances, to dig out a few draws, to be more difficult to defeat, to not look defeated after going behind and to still to be in games approaching the 90 mins.

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Just now, paddycanary said:

Fair enough, perhaps a dramatic choice of word!

I expected to be in and around the relegation spots for pretty much the entire season. But I expected to be more competitive in most games, to be creating more good chances, to dig out a few draws, to be more difficult to defeat, to not look defeated after going behind and to still to be in games approaching the 90 mins.

I wasn't disagreeing with you Paddy. It's just that unless I misunderstood you were saying if it wasn't for the injuries we would be where most people expected us to be?

I don't think anyone thinks the injuries are what prevents us being top half or better.

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The problem has been 100% the injuries. All happening so early in the season and to players in important defensive positions. 

Looking at the fact that we played the second half of last season with mostly the same team, we could not have predicted this would happen. 

It has left us with a ridiculously young and inexperienced back four, changing all the time with a midfield player having to fill in. I don't think many of us would have agreed with abandoning the young players at the start of the season. 

The Man City result showed what we could do but also gave our rivals how to beat us and perhaps gave us a high level of expectation. 

This led to an over-reaction after the Man Utd. The usual "lightweight" comments and the blaming of two of our key players. 

We try so hard to blame ourselves and mostly get it wrong. 

Hernandez had two great performances as substitute but everyone wanted to see him start the Brighton game. Perhaps, as a sub, he could have changed the game on Saturday. It's been some time since someone in our starting line up has scored. 

Trouble is on here that people want to be proved right when they've already been proven wrong. 

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On 02/11/2019 at 18:32, ricardo said:

A combination of bad luck on the injury front and misguided belief that the difference between the top of the Championship and the lower half of the Prem was quite small.

Ricardo is correct. I have to confess that upon promotion I thought we could maintain a mid-table position with small additions to the squad. Obviously the injuries have not helped, particularly the absence of Zimmermann, but I have soon learnt that there is quite a gap as Ricardo points out. Last season several Premier teams did not look that great, certainly in pure footballing terms, but they are full of powerful aggressive black African lads who can put themselves about, and we cannot cope. Just watched the Brighton highlights and we never really got any grip on the game. Very little possession and a shadow of last season and loss of confidence is worrying. Interesting to see that Sheff Utd and Villa are faring better albeit they were nothing like as good as us last season. The reason they are more solid defensively, but not very entertaining, whereas our more attacking attitude leaves us very vulnerable against better Premier sides. We cannot change our style and set up overnight. It will be a tough season.

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4 minutes ago, vos said:

Last season several Premier teams did not look that great, certainly in pure footballing terms, but they are full of powerful aggressive black African lads who can put themselves about

Wtf are you on about?

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This is feeling like 2017/18 season where we played the ball around ok but lacked goals and chances and let in poor goals.

we have lost 4 of our away games 2-0?  all games have felt very similar, worth putting a bet on against everton.

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I don't think the injuries have stopped us from being top 8 or anything but can quite easily see us having 4, 5 maybe 6 points more with actual central defenders playing in central defence. 

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On 02/11/2019 at 17:45, JF said:

If you say so. We’ve had injuries, every team does but we’re now only one injury away from our strongest 11 (Zimmerman) there is no evidence that Vrancic will be any better than our current outclassed and out muscled midfielders and the goals have now dried up as well. We’re paying the price for not signing a single player that can challenge and nail down a starting place in the first 11. We’ve been ridiculously unlucky with injuries but that is not the only reason by a long way as to why we’re struggling 

Funny, I could have sworn Amadou didn’t play on Saturday.

 

With Tettey/ Amadou next to Leitner in front of a proper back four, I hope we will see a different picture.

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1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

Funny, I could have sworn Amadou didn’t play on Saturday.

 

With Tettey/ Amadou next to Leitner in front of a proper back four, I hope we will see a different picture.

Also, it's not purely the starting 11; it's also about the lack of options on the bench, and the mental/physical fatigue the injury crisis has had on the players who have been playing week in, week out with knocks. For example, I would hazard a guess and suggest Buendia would have been rested for a period by now.

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I don't think the injuries have stopped us from being top 8 or anything but can quite easily see us having 4, 5 maybe 6 points more with actual central defenders playing in central defence. 

The thing with these injuries is it is impossible to quantify what damage they've done as it isn't simply a case of 'defender x replaced defender y and he isn't as good.' 

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I kind of feel it's a perfect storm, if you want to call it that, of:

A young, inexperienced squad

An inexperienced manager

Injuries, though beating Man City with injuries kinds of takes away this mitigation

And, having not spent enough on some players with Premier League experience over the summer to bolster the young 'uns.

 

It's probably not what we want to address but according to 'the plan' we're a year ahead of where we should be, it's not ideal, but the parachute money from any relegation, plus extended contracts on some of our better youth, means we either sell them for much more or keep them for another promotion push, financially better off given the stance on self funding.

I appreciate that doesnt help answer the current predicament, but Burnley seemed to be doing ok having been relegated that first time a few years ago, keeping Dyche and then bouncing back to become an established bulwark of mid-table.

I look at it like those early days when Webber came in as essentially starting again because we were in such poor shape financially without a fit-for-purpose academy. Now we're fit with both.

The results sting, the negative media tidbits do too, I try to ignore that and think bigger; we've only just started again and we're slowly getting back on track.

Think back to when we had Bassong, Naismith, Lafferty etc on extended, juicy contracts.. those mistakes shouldn't happen again.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

Injuries, though beating Man City with injuries kinds of takes away this mitigation

And, having not spent enough on some players with Premier League experience over the summer to bolster the young 'uns.

 

 

Agree with the rest of your post but not this bit. Why are our injuries not a mitigating factor because we beat man city and yet that itself isn't evidence against having needed further signings.

As it happens I believe it's both but seems harsh to have it one way and not the other.

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7 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Funny, I could have sworn Amadou didn’t play on Saturday.

 

With Tettey/ Amadou next to Leitner in front of a proper back four, I hope we will see a different picture.

I hardly think having one player with a slight knock for one game warrants mentioning, do you? Every team has that every week

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32 minutes ago, JF said:

I hardly think having one player with a slight knock for one game warrants mentioning, do you? Every team has that every week

You said “but we’re now only one injury away from our strongest 11 (Zimmerman)”. Without Amadou on Saturday we were two away from our alleged strongest 11. You were out by 100%. We were playing our 6th choice in central defence, and couldn’t play one of potentially the most expensive players NCFC have ever had.

 

I think that warrants mentioning, there’s already too much convenient reframing of facts in this board.

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Clutching at straws if we’re bemoaning a player missing one game, he was also on the bench so I’m not convinced you can even call him injured 

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