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hogesar

VAR - F*ck off

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I like the idea of VAR. Rugby TMO's do it brilliantly*, I don't understand why we can't just follow that successful blueprint. Instead Football does it their own way and f*cks it up...

*Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a massive fan yesterday morning when they ruled two tries out (correctly however).

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By the letter of the law Cantwell’s was a pen, hit his arm in an unnatural position inside the penalty area blocking a shot. Cantwell’s mistake and our loss (if it had gone in).

The other one was just bizarre, in slow motion the most obvious non penalty you’ll see, how a trained official gave that given the time they had to assess it is utterly baffling.

Regardless Krul was absolutely brilliant today, could have been an eyewateringly embarrassing score line but for him. 

Edited by Monty13

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8 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

 For all we know the VAR officials today were Sir Alex Ferguson, Mick Hucknell, and Rory McIlroy.

Actually it was Stevie Wonder. Lennie Peters and Mr Magoo

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2 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

By the letter of the law Cantwell’s was a pen, hit his arm in an unnatural position inside the penalty area blocking a shot. Cantwell’s mistake and our loss (if it had gone in).

The other one was just bizarre, in slow motion the most obvious non penalty you’ll see, how a trained official gave that given the time they had to assess it is utterly baffling.

Regardless Krul was absolutely brilliant today, could have been an eyewateringly embarrassing score line but for him. 

If Cantwells was a pen then so was our shout against Palace and VAR should mean theres no situation where we dont get a decision and another team does, for the same thing happening. Thats my problem  with it.

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

So, didnt have an impact on the result today, but what a farce VAR really is.

Stood their waiting for 5 minutes for VAR to decide if they should award a pen for James bouncing off Godfreys arm. Was it clear and obvious error by the ref? Didnt look like a pen whatsoever to me nor to the ref or linesman. But apparently clear and obvious no longer applies - all of a sudden?

And then the Cantwell handball?? Well, it was handball but can someone tell me why, then, there was no obvious check on Mings handball twice on the line in the Villa match?

Or, perhaps even more obvious - against Crystal Palace - where Van Aanholt blocked a cross by raising his arm. No check again?!

Absolute bloody train wreck with no consistency and even more bias than before with even less experience and ability than the poor excuse of a ref on the pitch!

Even the commentator on what I watched it on called it an absolute joke for the 1st pen

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5 minutes ago, Bill said:

even that is farcical as the offside rule was never intended as being judged by an attacking player having a couple of toes in front of the defender

therefore it is not the VAR itself, but the cretinous belief that it has any part to play in the game

if you are stooped by a cop for 'danerous driving' it is up to his or her judgement whether you were or not that judgement will take into account many variables, condition of road, time of day, place etc - trying to make that an absolute decision in every instance would be absurd, yet that is what the VAR numpties have been clamouring for

maybe when next stopped the driver should be allow to demand that the footage be shown to someone else in an office so they can decide instead

utterly ludicrous

But if you accept that any part of the body that can legally play the ball,so arms excluded, being offside by even the smallest amount is offside, then there can be no incorrect decisions. so I think it should be kept for that and that alone

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Can only agree with the original post. Atwell didn’t referee this match, AAshley Young’s did. Both incidents he was barking at Atwell to get it reviewed  and he did. No it didn’t cost us, but this IS NOT how VAR should be used. It has to be changed and follow the TMO system as used in Rugby Union (current World Cup). If it’s going to work refs need to be miked up, so the crowd can hear what is happening and why. I am totally against it as it stands, and will not go to matches if it continues. It is spoiling matches and is not being utilised correctly at all. Eg. Was it a Brighton pen v Everton? Farcical. Atwell didn’t think either incident was a penalty today because he didn’t give them!  It reviewed they were because Young’s wanted them reviewed. Who is in charge here?

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VAR is a great system in theory, but in practice, has any league managed to get it to work as well as it should?

Another VAR error today was not retaking Man Utd's first penalty. Obviously I'm not complaining, but how on earth did both the assistant and the VAR miss the fact that Krul was halfway to bloody Wymondham when that kick was taken?

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10 minutes ago, JF said:

But if you accept that any part of the body that can legally play the ball,so arms excluded, being offside by even the smallest amount is offside, then there can be no incorrect decisions. so I think it should be kept for that and that alone

But that would mean that the referee should have no judgement to use.

A player 'running back' fulfils the criteria of that law. A player with a longer nose, a few inches inside the other half would be off side.

What happens if the player's head is marginally ahead but his feer are an inch behind ?

Yes those are exreme examples but they highlight that the laws of the game are there to be interpretated. This nonsense removes that interpretation and puts the VAR in a position of having to enact such buffoonery as it has been 'painted into a corner' by assuming something like offside can sensibly be measured as such.

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1 hour ago, Chelm Canary said:

Neither were pens.

The United player made contact with Godfrey for the first. Honestly, who sat that and watched that over and over and thought "yeah that's a penalty and a yellow card" 

I suppose VAR is only useful if the person reviewing it possesses some common sense. 

But the people reviewing are the likes of Hooper (now retired) who disallowed and dropped a howler at CR last time in the prem. so we know they are very capable of making huge mistakes as it is. He isn’t the only retired senior ref doing it either. It stinks.

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16 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

VAR is a great system in theory, but in practice, has any league managed to get it to work as well as it should?

Another VAR error today was not retaking Man Utd's first penalty. Obviously I'm not complaining, but how on earth did both the assistant and the VAR miss the fact that Krul was halfway to bloody Wymondham when that kick was taken?

Yep have to say both penalties with the naked eye should have been retaken, however would love to see again  as maybe goalkeepers now train to somehow come forward and leave some part of their foot on the line.

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Still think (and hope) that VAR will be binned off within 5 years. It was never ready! 

As Making Plans said, goal line tech was enough. It is instant and is black and white, either a goal or isn't. But VAR is sucking the life out of the game. 

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VAR is something dreamed up by the Referees governing body to employ more officials.

Why have one guy making an idiot of himself when you can have a whole load of them!

A couple of points from today why VAR is shortchanging the fans...

I thought Ashley Young was the Ref today. He told the proper Ref all the decisions in the first half, and because he's a big boy - and the proper Ref isn't quite so big - managed to persuade the Ref not to send him off for an absolutely horrendous challenge in the second half.

Three minutes stoppage time at the end of the first half...

More time was wasted celebrating the goals, never mind the VAR, kicking the ball away etc.

When you have your own fans in the ground, why is there the need to go and have big celebrations right in front of the home fans when you score. This was time consuming and shows a complete lack of respect and class. What makes it worse it the fact that the Ref could do something about it, but chose not to. In this time where we are told about respect, isn't it time the Refs took action to respect some of the fans rather than allow behaviour that could incite trouble?

Ref's can't see everything, but I can't see any reason why Ashley Young didn't get a straight red in the second half. There was no attempt to play the ball, but there was intent to stop the player, by whatever means. Although VAR can over-rule the ref and enforce a penalty they can't seem to advise the ref on something as serious as a challenge that could bring a players season to a premature end. Shocking.

Another aspect of what is seen and isn't...

Harry Maguire had a kick out at Pukki on the half way line in the second half - unnoticed and unpunished. Just to make it worse when the ball had gone out for a throw in later in the half Maguire clattered into Pukki as he was running past him also unnoticed and unpunished.

As Making Plans has said above, why do we need a team of people who don't know their @rse form their elbow when one guy can do it all by himself?

Edited by First Wazzock
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Why not adopt the Cricket/Tennis system, where teams have a certain number of reviews -made through the Captain. would James have ask for the decision to be reviewed yesterday - I don't think so as he, nor any other united player appealed for the penalty.

 It would also stop the game being stopped consistently for "checks" 

 

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We saw on Friday Ryan Bertrand awarded a red card after consulting VAR. The premeditated foul on Jamal Lewis by Wan-Bissaka, I believe, and Young's foul on Aarans were not reviewed. Why not?

As VAR decided to give the first penalty, which it wasn't, why was Ben Godfrey not sent off? Surely, if it was a foul, he was the last man and prevented a goal-scoring opportunity.

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57 minutes ago, The Great Drinkell said:

Why not adopt the Cricket/Tennis system, where teams have a certain number of reviews -made through the Captain. would James have ask for the decision to be reviewed yesterday - I don't think so as he, nor any other united player appealed for the penalty.

 It would also stop the game being stopped consistently for "checks" 

 

This is what I've said since day 1 of VAR. VAR is just ruining football

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Its all been said before, but worth reiterating that the mess we have today is caused by the Referees governing body , the PGMOL.  Mike Riley is currently the General Manager. 

Here is what happened. 

VAR came to prominence in the World Cup 2018. If you read back through the history it is quite interesting - it began life in Netherlands and was trialled globally including the USA , Australia and many parts of Europe. 

In the 2018 World Cup a referee made a decision. Using the many angles that the broadcasters offer , the game was continually reviewed by a panel of "referees" watching the game. If the panel decided that a decision was wrong , it was suggested to the onfield referee that he reviewed the decision again, by watching a screen at the side of the pitch. Almost always the decision was overturned. If someone suggest that you take another look , the inference is clear. Your "clearly" got the first one wrong. But the level of decisions being made that were correct increased. We can all remember the rugby tackles at corners that correctly lead to penalties. 

PGMOL did not like this idea, where an onfield referee was shown to have got a decision wrong. So they introduced a system where a check was made for all "reviewable" incidents.  It still isn't clear who leads this - by and large it must still be the VAR off field refs, but there is also a suggestion that the onfield ref will suggest a review. 

The PGMOL position may appear a subtle change. But the result is that referees make a decision, it gets reviewed (or sometimes they don't and that is another issue with it) and because the association are obsessed with protecting their members more often than not , the decision remains the same. Until yesterday. 

Contrast that with what we saw at the World Cup. By and large the correct decision was arrived at. And why? Because the onus was on using technology , to provide angles (which referees have always bleated on about) , to arrive at the correct decision. Now the PGMOL have subtly charged the emphasis here to trying to protecting the position of the Ref. 

This might not seem much , but in the refereeing world it most certainly is. 

In the future , the referees will seek assistance from technology and the use of angles. That is the whole original intention of the scheme. It is so wrong at the moment but will evolve into a much better system but only when the PGMOL admit they need help.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, First Wazzock said:

Ref's can't see everything, but I can't see any reason why Ashley Young didn't get a straight red in the second half. There was no attempt to play the ball, but there was intent to stop the player, by whatever means. Although VAR can over-rule the ref and enforce a penalty they can't seem to advise the ref on something as serious as a challenge that could bring a players season to a premature end. Shocking.

Regardless of whether Young should have got a straight red, he should have been on a yellow card already from a previous bad foul on the half way line about 5 minutes before that awful challenge.

ManUre's best player yesterday was the one in black with the whistle (and his friends watching the game 200 miles away).

 

 

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It is rather sad how VAR is often used to enforce the letter rather than the spirit of the rules. I think both of yesterday's pennos were examples of that - or arguably not even that, as they were simply wrong calls. 

Slightly off, but here's another recent VAR-shocker, a perfect example how NOT to use the technology:

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Budapest Canary said:

It is rather sad how VAR is often used to enforce the letter rather than the spirit of the rules. I think both of yesterday's pennos were examples of that - or arguably not even that, as they were simply wrong calls. 

Slightly off, but here's another recent VAR-shocker, a perfect example how NOT to use the technology:

 

 

The world has taken leave of it's senses! Nobody in the ground gave a monkeys about that until the VAR ref piped up. What a crock of sh1te and hopefully another nail in the coffin of a deeply flawed system.

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Just now, All the Germans said:

That penalty is ridiculous but it's not the principle of VAR that is at fault but the wildly crazy application.

Agree 100% 

The principle is fine. When you have 47 TV cameras looking from 47 different angles, the chances of arriving at the correct decision are increased. 

It's the application that is wrong. 

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I haven't seen it but on the live radio commentary I was listening to, they said there was a camera angle that clearly showed that the 2nd penalty decision clearly came off the back of Cantwells head, but that VAR was only using the camera angle that made it look like it came off his arm. Is that incompetence? And if so, is it accidental or willful incompetence?

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But the 'correct' decision was arrived at yesterday and Ben Godfrey was yellow carded. If the 'correct' decision was applied, surely that should have been red. A complete nonsense. 

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