VAR - F*ck off

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

But the 'correct' decision was arrived at yesterday and Ben Godfrey was yellow carded. If the 'correct' decision was applied, surely that should have been red. A complete nonsense. 

Isn't there some double-jeopardy thing which says you only get a yellow if a pen is given? Or something. Presumably except for serious foul play.

Anyway, it's gobsmacking that anyone whose actual job it is could watch that video replay and give a pen against Godfrey.

[Mason 47 1,371]

VAR seems to be turning into the real-life equivalent of the AI director in Fifa games.

As everyone else has said, the first decision is an absolute farce, the second penalty you can hold your hands up and say fair enough; or you could, if we hadn't have had at least one of those exact scenarios be waved away against us this year already.

Similarly, against Villa the VAR put on a nice little show about Emi Buendia maybe needing a red card for a tackle nowhere near as bad as Wan-Bissaka on Lewis yesterday, which I don't believe came under review (that may be because the ref had already blow up for a yellow, but that in itself is part of the problem).

Where is the consistency?

[Making Plans 936]

1 hour ago, Drazen Muzinic said:

Offsides too.

Both black and white - no further 'interpretation' needed and elimates and human subjectivity.

Offsides, really.

If anybody else watches Racing TV and/or Sky Racing on a regular basis then you will know that even VAR will never get 100% of offsides correct.

They use a camera that is 50 yards from the centre of the pitch and only in one position.

Then they simply draw a line a line across the pitch which is supposed to determine if a player is either offside or onside down to the nearest centimetre. Impossible

Virtually everday in horse racing there are photo finishes. Some close and others very close.

The TV camera, like in football, is some way away from the finishing line and does not move apart from rotating.

I have seen literally hundreds of photo finishes that look on TV to favour one horse over another. Most of the time even the commentators, and punters, are confident which horse has won even in a very tight finish.

I would say that at least 50% of those cases the actual "photo" of the finish (i.e. taken by a camera that is only 20 yards from the finishing line, points directly along the finishing line when the horses are actually are crossing the line) shows that horse that I, other punters and the commentator, thinks has won is wrong.

The shortest distance and a horse can win by is defined as follows -  "All distances are a measurement of elapsed time but in real terms a nose is anywhere on the horse’s nostril, so can be as little as 1000th of a second, a couple of millimetres up to about 3 inches".

Now you can't tell me that a camera at a football match, 50 yards away from the action, and not directly in line with the players involved, can possibly get down to an accuracy of less than 3 inches.

Add in the extra element of deciding exactly when the ball was kicked and the task to make an accurate decision becomes impossible

Therefore, when VAR gives an offside decision in very tight situations then the person making the decision is guessing.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Making Plans

[Well b back 3,175]

I think just to show what a farce VAR is once given they are obviously penalties. So when Krul saves each penalty 2 yards of his line the penalty needs to be retaken. I could see that with the naked eye and now I have watched it can confidently say this was the case.

I would love to know why the VAR officials and the Lino and ref did not ask for the penalties to be retaken, you can’t think o maybe the first decision was wrong so we won’t ask for it to be retaken.

The other thing I was horrified with yesterday was with all the problems in Bulgaria and the players asking correctly to be respected and protected, why did they think it was a good idea to disrespect our fans when they scored. Each time they went towards their fans, turned and made a beeline towards the snake pit. Surely at least a yellow card.

I always supported VAR but I now have to say it’s a joke. It’s completely ruining our game from the aspect that the most exciting part was the spontaneous celebrations when a goal was scored. That roar is gradually becoming a whimper and we will soon be at a stage where celebrating a goal will be a thing of the past, with just a round of applause once confirmed as a goal.

[hogesar 9,606]

41 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

VAR seems to be turning into the real-life equivalent of the AI director in Fifa games.

As everyone else has said, the first decision is an absolute farce, the second penalty you can hold your hands up and say fair enough; or you could, if we hadn't have had at least one of those exact scenarios be waved away against us this year already.

Similarly, against Villa the VAR put on a nice little show about Emi Buendia maybe needing a red card for a tackle nowhere near as bad as Wan-Bissaka on Lewis yesterday, which I don't believe came under review (that may be because the ref had already blow up for a yellow, but that in itself is part of the problem).

Where is the consistency?

this x 1000000

[Ian 1,129]

43 minutes ago, hogesar said:

this x 1000000

Agreed. The technology is being horribly misused at the moment. The technology simply isn't accurate enough to use it for marginal offsides, and it looks like the officials who are using them are also prone to massive errors anyway (given the first penalty decision yesterday).

I also read that VAR is not used for keeper positioning at penalties, so would explain why they were not retaken.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Towards the end of the 1st half, Buendia broke into the box and was fouled (contact made) but he stayed on his feet and got a shot off.

What is the difference here VAR? The Ref made an obvious error did he  not?

[First Wazzock 902]

Looking at this from a slightly different angle...

What must Stuart Attwell be thinking after the game? He's probably thinking, am I prepared to have someone watching miles away overturn a decision I have made having been on the spot - not once but twice. This totally undermines his performance. Bearing in mind I, and many others including OGS didn't think the first one was a penalty, and most would say overturning the original decision was wrong.

Then from the other side...

Is Stuart Attwell good enough, having two decisions overturned. Which basically asks the question is VAR good enough to Ref the game from afar?   

[Woodman 92]

1 hour ago, First Wazzock said:

Bearing in mind I, and many others including OGS didn't think the first one was a penalty, and most would say overturning the original decision was wrong.

Easy to say that when you've just won 3-1 for your first away win since February and saved your job.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

As I said elsewhere, VAR will still favour the big clubs because they will get more reviews.

Sunday was one of the games I've enjoyed least in over 50 years attending. Not because we were well beaten but because this VAR is ridiculous.

Football is for TV now. If we stay up I expect tickets to be reduced because those in the stadium aren't considered making it a substandard product for those in the stadium.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,421]

1 hour ago, First Wazzock said:

Looking at this from a slightly different angle...

What must Stuart Attwell be thinking after the game? He's probably thinking, am I prepared to have someone watching miles away overturn a decision I have made having been on the spot - not once but twice. This totally undermines his performance. Bearing in mind I, and many others including OGS didn't think the first one was a penalty, and most would say overturning the original decision was wrong.

Then from the other side...

Is Stuart Attwell good enough, having two decisions overturned. Which basically asks the question is VAR good enough to Ref the game from afar?   

Good post Wazz.

The first point is, I'm sure, the thinking behind the protocol introduced . By only checking certain decisions automatically no inference is gained from the review.  We'll not find out the reaction of POGMOL for many months if at all. My guess is that the VAR ref will get a roasting, for incorrectly making one of their own look stupid.  Attwell will have been contacted already, to reassure him how great he is. 

Point two - the VAR are refs. All trained the same, all with the same outlook. I'd say none of them are good enough to ref a game from a single viewpoint and the need for properly applied technology is there. But with no fresh blood, and no alternative outlook. Nothing will change under the current regime. And these blokes have their snouts in the same trough as the rest of football so why would they look to make controversial changes? A list ref starts on £100k retainer , and can get £5k for a European game , plus expenses. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Graham Paddons Beard

[Branston Pickle 3,631]

I did actually feel a bit sorry for Attwell yesterday - it was as though the game was being reffed by Coote in London, or wherever he was, rather than on the pitch and thus took away a chunk of his authority.

Incidentally, people have often used rugby as proof of how well it can work, with their TMOs - but in the last few RWC games we’ve seen some pretty poor decisions there as well - the Wales match-winning try vs France (ball clearly went forward) and England having a try disallowed v NZ; the second of these wasn’t crucial in the end.

I think the upshot is that using tv pictures just isn’t as infallible as we want it to be.

[Bill 1,788]

16 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I think the upshot is that using tv pictures just isn’t as infallible as we want it to be.

it's more a case of numpties who don't really understand the game, or how subjective much of the decision making is deluding themselves into believing that there is an exact decision in every case .......... if only it could be viewed enough and from every angle

that stupidity can be seen here where the ball is going out of play and was stopped for the right reasons - but the ref was over ruled by 'numpty time' where his judgement did not carry and so we are once again treated to the numpties believe in absolute, exact decisions

watch this and recognise where this nonsense is heading

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Football was such a popular and exciting game because there were just a handful of rules and laws. 

Now, the rules are always tinkered with to some degree and now we have technology being used unsuccessfully to avoid controversy. And unfortunately for us, we have been at the receiving end on more than one occasion. So we have good reason to gripe. And funnily enough, MOTD2 was totally concerned with the Arsenal decision but apart from Pearce's commentary, completely oblivious of ours.

VAR was introduced mainly because the big clubs felt they were being hard done by. Referees have been under pressure ever since Ferguson was allowed to say what he liked and since then it has become so easy to blame the ref for making mistakes and saying the game is too important for mistakes to continue.

Well congratulations, you have managed to ruin the beautiful game by your selfishness and money grabbing attitudes.

And all this took place when the crowd gave its final respects to someone who managed to embody everything that was great about our game and made it so simple to watch.