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Stinking rich Chinese investor

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5 hours ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

Leicester are a similar sized club in a similar sized city now they are over achieving! 

Only half that statement is true, surprise surprise. They are a similar size City and Club-ish. 

But no way are they overachieving, they did the Season that they won the league, now they are just another upper mid table side who have benefited hugely by having an investor. Big deal. That is not overachieving, that is performing as expected after a massive injection of money. As the Song goes. " They're just a shoite Man City".  Having said that, their Dosh saved us from quite severe financial difficulty, so thanks Leicester.Thanks JM too.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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Of course Leicester are over achieving in a list of comparable clubs. We are too but less so  Maybe the average is currently where forest and Sheff Wed are. And in both those cases it's not just the one investor owner who has failed.

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2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

The idea that some of us lack ambition or are "just happy with our lot" is both arrogant and ignorant. Our club is over achieving. Not just because of the wealth of our owners. We are over achieving in the pool of all comparable clubs including those with massively wealthy owners.

Of course a few are over achieving further than us. But that's not the norm or anything like the norm.

If we ditched what we have in favour of a wealthy owner there's probably a one in five chance we could have what we have now. Let alone better. Why take the risk at those odds?

If we are over achieving in the eyes of some it is only because Delia has successfully regressed the club over 23 years to the extent that the faithful are happy being fed EPL scraps in between longer spells in the EPL. Some of us have longer memories and are immune to Delia's attempts to brainwash us into thinking small.

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9 hours ago, Big Vince said:

But our owners continually get relegated. I come back to the point that Chase did nine straight years in the top flight; Watling did not get relegated even once; and Sir Arthur won the League Cup. Ipswich fans are correct when they ask where are the major trophies? Delia has only managed one cup quarter final in nearly a quarter of a century.

And in that period of time that you refer to (1973 to present presumably as you refer to Sir Arthur?) Football and its finances haven't changed at all have they?  In fact our most turgid period was probably 1996 to 2001 where there was little to be positive about on or off the pitch. This was of course under our present owners which I know you'll be glad to acknowledge. However we have to look at who paved the way for this period and we don't have to look much further than your hero, fat Bob do we? Selling all the crown jewels of the team, buying useless land (at the time) investing in bricks and mortar instead of the academy and team , forcing the manager with the best chance of getting us back to the top flight out by refusing to buy Windass and his breathtaking contempt for the fan base, don't see crowds of angry supporters getting charged by mounted police under Delia's tenure  do we? Guess we must all be happy clappers.

 

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Well it wouldn't let me quote you BV it seems even the software on this forum has standards.

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6 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

If we are over achieving in the eyes of some it is only because Delia has successfully regressed the club over 23 years to the extent that the faithful are happy being fed EPL scraps in between longer spells in the EPL. Some of us have longer memories and are immune to Delia's attempts to brainwash us into thinking small.

It's not about "in the eyes of some". All you need to do is make a list of comparable club owners and their records over the last ten years, put the ones doing better above us and the ones doing worse below us. Don't bother with their wealth. Treat them all as equal.

Shouldn't be too taxing, even for you🙃

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5 minutes ago, Rivvo said:

And in that period of time that you refer to (1973 to present presumably as you refer to Sir Arthur?) Football and its finances haven't changed at all have they?  In fact our most turgid period was probably 1996 to 2001 where there was little to be positive about on or off the pitch. This was of course under our present owners which I know you'll be glad to acknowledge. However we have to look at who paved the way for this period and we don't have to look much further than your hero, fat Bob do we? Selling all the crown jewels of the team, buying useless land (at the time) investing in bricks and mortar instead of the academy and team , forcing the manager with the best chance of getting us back to the top flight out by refusing to buy Windass and his breathtaking contempt for the fan base, don't see crowds of angry supporters getting charged by mounted police under Delia's tenure  do we? Guess we must all be happy clappers.

 

Well, Delia invested no money preparing for the EPL because she wants to sell our current crown jewels as soon as she gets us relegated. And is the boy Webber not now saying that we should invest in infrastructure rather than the team? Pots calling kettles black? At least Chase was successful on the pitch in spite of all the accusers lined up against him.

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14 minutes ago, Rivvo said:

Well it wouldn't let me quote you BV it seems even the software on this forum has standards.

The software on this forum was designed on behalf of and signed off by the owners of Norwich City Football Club.

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Of course Leicester are over achieving in a list of comparable clubs. We are too but less so  Maybe the average is currently where forest and Sheff Wed are. And in both those cases it's not just the one investor owner who has failed.

Can't agree Nuttyo, they've had significant investment. That negates the overachieving label, they are achieving what the investment was intended for. No sour grapes, just the way it is.

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45 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Can't agree Nuttyo, they've had significant investment. That negates the overachieving label, they are achieving what the investment was intended for. No sour grapes, just the way it is.

No doubt we can make allowances for the owners wealth in which case they are not over achieving and we are massively. The point I was trying to make is that we are overachieving even if you ignore the wealth of the club owners. On a level playing field if you like.

Edited by nutty nigel

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2 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Well, Delia invested no money preparing for the EPL because she wants to sell our current crown jewels as soon as she gets us relegated. And is the boy Webber not now saying that we should invest in infrastructure rather than the team? Pots calling kettles black? At least Chase was successful on the pitch in spite of all the accusers lined up against him.

There you go again, Big Socialist Diddley Squat, throwing your toys out of your pram because Delia isn’t running the club the way you want it run.

Your comments of Webber do nothing but demonstrate your short sightedness. Webber wishing to strengthen the infrastructure of the club is a smart, long term strategy which you clearly struggle to grasp. The players will always come and go. The structure of the club must be sound in order to survive the inevitable change of introducing a super league. At that time the majority of the money gained from television will probably drop to that of the Championship and a lot of clubs will struggle and fold. Not NCFC.

As for your comments on Chase, I believe NCFC won the Championship last season with style and currently play an attractive brand of football under Delia, Webber and Farke.

My hope for you Big Diddley is that eventually you will come to the realization of your place in the grand scheme of things, as that of a spectator. Nothing more. Not to worry. There’s no shame in that. Unfortunately, you being a socialist at heart, imagine that given the stewardship of the club, you would do better. But you have demonstrated from your previous ramblings that if you were given charge of NCFC, you would probably suffer from serious bouts of pant wetting - more so than you already do- and lead the club to failure inside two seasons. My other guess is your current state of affairs reflects this fact and you satisfy your frustrations with petty, mindless comments here and probably elsewhere. How sad.

 On the other hand, Delia is living a life of success and responsibility. She has the resources and the passion to do what she feels is best for her business investment and the fans. She is the steward of a club that is being positioned to not only survive, but thrive within a sustainable business model.

And if she wants to sell a few players and pocket a few pounds....she’s allowed to....it’s her business. 
 

Wait, have I been waisting my time calling out an Ipswich fan? 

Edited by CirclePoint

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I don't like to say overachieving because I don't think we are. It isn't just about money or else the EPL would just be full of the richest owned clubs.

Its what you do with your resources that counts. And with our resources, we have done well. Lambert, Neill and DF have all achieved success at this club. And with the resources at their disposal. And even Chris Hughton gave us some mighty performances during his tenure.

I can't believe how those who seem to despise the current owners can't see it. We continue to bounce back even when our success peters out and we have to start again.

Spending one season in L1 wasn't good from an ego point of view but was a hell of a successful year. 

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2 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Well, Delia invested no money preparing for the EPL because she wants to sell our current crown jewels as soon as she gets us relegated. And is the boy Webber not now saying that we should invest in infrastructure rather than the team? Pots calling kettles black? At least Chase was successful on the pitch in spite of all the accusers lined up against him.

Do what Nutty has suggested. Ignore the wealth of the owners, which is already giving you an unfair advantage, and list all comparably sized clubs. How many are doing better?

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2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

No doubt we can make allowances for the owners wealth in which case they are not over achieving and we are massively. The point I was trying to make is that we are overachieving even if you ignore the wealth of the club owners. On a level playing field if you like.

I'd love to see that level playing field someday. Do let me know when it appears.😜

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14 hours ago, Big Vince said:

The software on this forum was designed on behalf of and signed off by the owners of Norwich City Football Club.

Just lol.

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12 hours ago, hogesar said:

Do what Nutty has suggested. Ignore the wealth of the owners, which is already giving you an unfair advantage, and list all comparably sized clubs. How many are doing better?

Bump 🙂 

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18 hours ago, Rivvo said:

And in that period of time that you refer to (1973 to present presumably as you refer to Sir Arthur?) Football and its finances haven't changed at all have they?  In fact our most turgid period was probably 1996 to 2001 where there was little to be positive about on or off the pitch. This was of course under our present owners which I know you'll be glad to acknowledge. However we have to look at who paved the way for this period and we don't have to look much further than your hero, fat Bob do we? Selling all the crown jewels of the team, buying useless land (at the time) investing in bricks and mortar instead of the academy and team , forcing the manager with the best chance of getting us back to the top flight out by refusing to buy Windass and his breathtaking contempt for the fan base, don't see crowds of angry supporters getting charged by mounted police under Delia's tenure  do we? Guess we must all be happy clappers.

 

Football and finances have of course changed, we haven't. 15 of the 20 clubs in the PL are owned by billionaires. 3 of the rest are hundred millionaires. Unsurprisingly Delia and MWJ are the poor relations (estimated £25m). In fact if you add the Championship to that list they rank bottom of the top 44 teams. As you said, footballs changed, we're still trying to get by with poor owners.

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3 minutes ago, BarclayWazza said:

Football and finances have of course changed, we haven't. 15 of the 20 clubs in the PL are owned by billionaires. 3 of the rest are hundred millionaires. Unsurprisingly Delia and MWJ are the poor relations (estimated £25m). In fact if you add the Championship to that list they rank bottom of the top 44 teams. As you said, footballs changed, we're still trying to get by with poor owners.

I think the fairly obvious rebuttal to that is we're not just trying to get by with them- we're succeeding with them as of now.

Edited by king canary
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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think the fairly obvious rebuttal to that is we're not just trying to get by with them- we're succeeding with them as of now.

Again, it depends on your ambition. IMO we should be aiming to be a relatively settled PL side. We've failed to do that 3 times in the last 15 or so years. I've said this hundreds of times now as well but I strongly believe we have at least 5 potential £30m + players in the squad and building a side around those 5 is our best chance to establish ourselves. I just think its madness that we've spent next to nothing going into a season that could see some of them gone if we go back down. 

Yes I know we had to shell out extra for Buendia. Yes i know we had to pay out promotion bonuses. Yes i know we don't get all the PL money at once. But had we had an owner that could put in a short term £20-30 million rather than waiting until January we would surely give ourselves a better chance.

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 "In fact if you add the Championship to that list they rank bottom of the top 44 teams."

The fact that we're in the Premier League and so many with richer owners are not sums the current situation up quite well really.

Whether we will still be up there next season is another matter. If not this argument will be raised again and again.

When we are doing well the current ownership situation is fine. Then vice-versa.

As a club it does seem that our current yo-yo reputation is on a par with what we should reasonably expect. Or is that a somewhat unambitious view?

However, if it is yet another one season wonder thing (three times this century) then perhaps there are grounds for discontent .... not quite at the level of some complainants on here but the sheer inevitability of it all will surely need questioning.

(P.s.I think DF will turn it round and buck the trend as we will have enough once that defence is recovered.) 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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2 minutes ago, BarclayWazza said:

Again, it depends on your ambition. IMO we should be aiming to be a relatively settled PL side. We've failed to do that 3 times in the last 15 or so years. I've said this hundreds of times now as well but I strongly believe we have at least 5 potential £30m + players in the squad and building a side around those 5 is our best chance to establish ourselves. I just think its madness that we've spent next to nothing going into a season that could see some of them gone if we go back down. 

Yes I know we had to shell out extra for Buendia. Yes i know we had to pay out promotion bonuses. Yes i know we don't get all the PL money at once. But had we had an owner that could put in a short term £20-30 million rather than waiting until January we would surely give ourselves a better chance.

I don't really disagree with any of that- the lack of spending this summer took me by surprise for sure. I've at times been a pretty strong critic of our current owners.

However, I do agree with those that say the idea of an established Premier League team is a bit of a myth outside of a few teams. Stoke are the best recent example of a team that looked to be that, yet are currently more likely to start the 20/21 season in League One than the Premier League. 

 

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This comparable clubs thought is what limits development, we need to grow and develop NCFC to keep pace to where we are. Making the most of our catchment is a must to grow.

I think with the club now looking at expanding CR over the next few years should circumstance allow us to do so, will no doubt help.

It’s easy to say we won’t fill 35,000 capacity regularly, but go back to 1998 and we wouldn’t have filled a 20k capacity. Demand has grown and doesn’t look like it will go down anytime soon.

Its not just about investment it’s about continuous improvement in a controlled manner, Webber is doing this with minimal financial risk, which is a great way forward. Low risk with big rewards.

Good luck, it’s been a breath of fresh air to see youngsters come through, the team built with good additions and giving a go to the best league in the world, beating one of the best teams in the world. What’s to complain about.

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22 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't really disagree with any of that- the lack of spending this summer took me by surprise for sure. I've at times been a pretty strong critic of our current owners.

However, I do agree with those that say the idea of an established Premier League team is a bit of a myth outside of a few teams. Stoke are the best recent example of a team that looked to be that, yet are currently more likely to start the 20/21 season in League One than the Premier League. 

 

I do agree that outside of the top maybe 6-8 teams now that it is a bit of a myth. But you will find many teams that have had a good run of 5+ seasons in the top flight that are very similar size, average attendance and stature to us - Leicester, Brighton, Southampton, Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford, West Brom, Swansea and Stoke have all done this in recent years.  The main difference between them and us is the owners bank balance.

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

This comparable clubs thought is what limits development, we need to grow and develop NCFC to keep pace to where we are. Making the most of our catchment is a must to grow.

I think with the club now looking at expanding CR over the next few years should circumstance allow us to do so, will no doubt help.

It’s easy to say we won’t fill 35,000 capacity regularly, but go back to 1998 and we wouldn’t have filled a 20k capacity. Demand has grown and doesn’t look like it will go down anytime soon.

Its not just about investment it’s about continuous improvement in a controlled manner, Webber is doing this with minimal financial risk, which is a great way forward. Low risk with big rewards.

Good luck, it’s been a breath of fresh air to see youngsters come through, the team built with good additions and giving a go to the best league in the world, beating one of the best teams in the world. What’s to complain about.

Would you call no meaningful additions to a back line that shipped over 1 goal a game last year continual improvement? If you're going to have 3 of your back line as promising but inexperienced at the top level youth products you need something better than someone who is injury prone (Klose), inexperienced at the top level (Zimbo) or not quite good enough at this level (Hanley) to be that 4th player. 

In fact I wouldn't call spending 750k on a back up player, a few quid on a couple of loans and a few more quid on players for the development team continuous improvement. In a season where we can expect c.£100m in TV money, I would expect an outlay of £20-30m on well scouted players to be a controlled amount. 

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1 minute ago, BarclayWazza said:

Would you call no meaningful additions to a back line that shipped over 1 goal a game last year continual improvement? If you're going to have 3 of your back line as promising but inexperienced at the top level youth products you need something better than someone who is injury prone (Klose), inexperienced at the top level (Zimbo) or not quite good enough at this level (Hanley) to be that 4th player. 

In fact I wouldn't call spending 750k on a back up player, a few quid on a couple of loans and a few more quid on players for the development team continuous improvement. In a season where we can expect c.£100m in TV money, I would expect an outlay of £20-30m on well scouted players to be a controlled amount. 

To counter this, all three youngsters have only played less than 10 games at this level and still improving.

Yes I would have loved an additional defender with Hanley out the door, but Zimbo n Godfrey we’re developing a great pairing, so a better defender might well be out of reach financially, so Klose a full international as third choice was solid enough, with Amadou In we should have had more than enough to cover that area, just damn unlucky with all the injuries in that area.
I certainly don’t want another Naismith type on huge wages but no commitment to our cause.

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1 minute ago, Indy said:

To counter this, all three youngsters have only played less than 10 games at this level and still improving.

Yes I would have loved an additional defender with Hanley out the door, but Zimbo n Godfrey we’re developing a great pairing, so a better defender might well be out of reach financially, so Klose a full international as third choice was solid enough, with Amadou In we should have had more than enough to cover that area, just damn unlucky with all the injuries in that area.
I certainly don’t want another Naismith type on huge wages but no commitment to our cause.

Sorry I don't think you got the point I was trying to make - I think with 3 players who are all young and developing, I think you need an experienced body alongside them. Klose would imo fit the bill but has had too many injuries, I don't think Zimbo is experienced enough and I don't think Hanley is ultimately good enough. And I'm not saying it should be a mega bucks player on 100k a week, just someone with a bit of top flight experience who can guide the others on the pitch.

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26 minutes ago, BarclayWazza said:

I do agree that outside of the top maybe 6-8 teams now that it is a bit of a myth. But you will find many teams that have had a good run of 5+ seasons in the top flight that are very similar size, average attendance and stature to us - Leicester, Brighton, Southampton, Palace, Burnley, Bournemouth, Watford, West Brom, Swansea and Stoke have all done this in recent years.  The main difference between them and us is the owners bank balance.

Yeah, I guess the question is where does the limit lie? Would you rather have stayed up for 5 years straight under Hughton or had the relegation and day out and Wembley we had?

I do agree about longer-term concerns but in general, it feels a bit churlish to complain about ownership that made a bold structural decision that paid off handsomely.

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I dont actually deny that more wealthy owners would give us a better chance of staying in the prem for longer. Thing is, they would need to be as good as our owners have been with all the other stuff, as well as the on field stuff. Now, if we can guarantee that then great. But what are the odds?

And that's what it comes down to. Taking their lack of wealth into account, theyve consistently delivered above and beyond that of many rich counterparts.

As Nutty said before, anyone who thinks it's worth taking the risk just to say we've got owners with a bit more money is not only showing a huge lack of care to our club as it is but it's doing the current owners a massive disservice.

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