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Dean Coneys boots

3 positives & 3 negatives

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This season has been a roller coaster. Meaning it’s easy to praise (Man City) and moan (Villa) in equal measure. Maybe it’s time to admit the  good and the bad and ask where to go from here? 

My three positives and negatives: 

positive

1) fabulous manager who fosters attractive football and when it works- wow! 

2) a sense of togetherness in squad and some cracking youth signed 

3) a canny operator in Webber - even if we do go down this year he has saved the cash for us to mount a decent come back 

negatives:

1) we lack physicality. This is main reason we found palace and villa harder than Man City. Lower sides with massive athletes bully us off the ball 

2) lack of CB signing. Hindsight is 20/20 but Hanley should have been released and a decent CB signed. We would be mid table I believe 

3) tactics - we lack a plan B and it shows. When our way isn’t working we look bereft of ideas. this is very worrying as teams have sussed us a bit 

 

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It is what it is.  The issues in defence aren’t a hindsight thing, we have to work through it.  Being able to play Amadou in his proper role would be a big help.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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The frailty of this industry means the current state of play is always temporary, Farke has been great, he's given us winning football with real flair  (until recently). Interesting to see how fans view him in February if we're rock bottom and 15 points adrift from safety. 

Agree with the comparative physicality, it should, however, be less telling in the league compared to the championship. Palace, West Ham and Villa all showed considerably more desire and our heads dropped very quickly. I think the team, with the current injury crisis, know they are up against it and are on the back foot before the ball is even kicked. 

Hanley should have been retained and an additional CB signed. 4 decent CBs needed at this level and Godfrey and Zimmerman were untested at this level. 

There isn't a plan B. The composition on the whole squad is built around FARKE BALL. Farke says we have a philosophy, which in reality means, we play one way. 

BUT, I'm enjoying it. We are punching well above our weight and our transfer expenditure pre-season confirmed that. I didn't expect anything more than a bottom 3 finish this season. I hope for survival but expect we'll be in the championship again come May with a few memorable big scalps in the bag.

OTBC

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Overrated, over paid said:

The frailty of this industry means the current state of play is always temporary, Farke has been great, he's given us winning football with real flair  (until recently). Interesting to see how fans view him in February if we're rock bottom and 15 points adrift from safety. 

Agree with the comparative physicality, it should, however, be less telling in the league compared to the championship. Palace, West Ham and Villa all showed considerably more desire and our heads dropped very quickly. I think the team, with the current injury crisis, know they are up against it and are on the back foot before the ball is even kicked. 

Hanley should have been retained and an additional CB signed. 4 decent CBs needed at this level and Godfrey and Zimmerman were untested at this level. 

There isn't a plan B. The composition on the whole squad is built around FARKE BALL. Farke says we have a philosophy, which in reality means, we play one way. 

BUT, I'm enjoying it. We are punching well above our weight and our transfer expenditure pre-season confirmed that. I didn't expect anything more than a bottom 3 finish this season. I hope for survival but expect we'll be in the championship again come May with a few memorable big scalps in the bag.

OTBC

 

 

I find it staggering that some fans are basically saying they will enjoy seeing us relegated. “Big scalps” are all well and good but we are not some c**p lower league team on a cup run. If we finish bottom three it won’t have been an enjoyable season and it will have been a failure. 

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Back in 2004 Worthy decided not to retain the big characters/leaders from promotion season & with hindsight he/we saw a nice bunch of lad get relegated with barely a whimper until it was too late. 

This season we seemed determined not to repeat that error, almost everyone was retained. But injuries. Last season four players captained the side, Hanley, Zimbo, Klose & Tettey, the big characters, the leaders. If we had needed another captain it would probably have been Krul. Farke also paid tribute to the influence of Jordan Rhodes within the group even when not playing or when he came on when things weren't going right. All missing on Saturday.

Not I agree the whole problem but a fair part of it.

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17 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

So what should "Plan B" be?...........

I'd suggest using players like Roberts to give us a bit more pace on the counter-attack and give us an 'out ball' if playing out from the back is proving difficult.

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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

I find it staggering that some fans are basically saying they will enjoy seeing us relegated. “Big scalps” are all well and good but we are not some c**p lower league team on a cup run. If we finish bottom three it won’t have been an enjoyable season and it will have been a failure. 

I'm not sure us getting relegated would be a 'failure' - failure indicates we've performed below expectation but if anyone 'expected' to stay up as a minimum prerequisite this season then I think they've failed to listen to what the club have said and how we were approaching this season.

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

I'd suggest using players like Roberts to give us a bit more pace on the counter-attack and give us an 'out ball' if playing out from the back is proving difficult.

So how would we get the ball to Roberts?, play it long and hope that ball is accurate, or play it out and pass into his feet?.......

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1 minute ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

So how would we get the ball to Roberts?, play it long and hope that ball is accurate, or play it out and pass into his feet?.......

That would depend on how the opponent is playing.

If they are holding a high defensive line then a longer ball into the channels isn't a bad idea. If they are sitting deeper then a ball into feet to allow him to turn and run may work.

It isn't foolproof but if what we're doing isn't working then mixing it up can help.

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It is only a failure if you need a stick to beat the club with. At the beginning of the season it was made extremely clear that we did not have the resources to spend lots of money, that promotion had come earlier than expected, that winning the Championship was like conquering Everest and that staying in the Premiership would be like having to climb Everest again. As I have said elsewhere I intend to enjoy this season, I am not getting carried away with wins, I am not getting down about defeats. I am happy with the direction the club is going in terms of the head coach, the way we play, the youngsters we have etc. As I have also said elsewhere three teams will be relegated this season which means that a team that has spent money will get relegated.

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49 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm not sure us getting relegated would be a 'failure' - failure indicates we've performed below expectation but if anyone 'expected' to stay up as a minimum prerequisite this season then I think they've failed to listen to what the club have said and how we were approaching this season.

Well any plan that incorporates  getting relegated and assumes we will get promoted again is frankly nonsense. All our talented youngsters will be off and there is no guarantee that we will be able to replace them with players who are as good or of the same potential or that the same chemistry will exists or pay off as spectacularly as it did last season when things clicked for us. This "top 25" target that Webber has conveniently set for himself is equally a nonsense which conveniently allows for relegation to still be claimed as "part of the plan."

The aim this season must be to stay up. If we do not do that then it will have been a failure to achieve that aim. If we continue shipping goals at the rate we have done so far this season then the enjoyment will soon wear off for everyone. I hope that's not the case and we can turn it around and achieve our objective.

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10 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Well any plan that incorporates  getting relegated and assumes we will get promoted again is frankly nonsense. All our talented youngsters will be off and there is no guarantee that we will be able to replace them with players who are as good or of the same potential or that the same chemistry will exists or pay off as spectacularly as it did last season when things clicked for us. This "top 25" target that Webber has conveniently set for himself is equally a nonsense which conveniently allows for relegation to still be claimed as "part of the plan."

The aim this season must be to stay up. If we do not do that then it will have been a failure to achieve that aim. If we continue shipping goals at the rate we have done so far this season then the enjoyment will soon wear off for everyone. I hope that's not the case and we can turn it around and achieve our objective.

Have to agree with your point about shipping goals. Unless we score a lot more it's going to bite us. We have conceded too many. Big problem for Farke to try and solve.

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

I'd suggest using players like Roberts to give us a bit more pace on the counter-attack and give us an 'out ball' if playing out from the back is proving difficult.

Roberts is being integrated more often recently, but Farke has made it clear that he favours players who already 'get' the intricacies of the system we're trying to play. Having played for Man City and Celtic who are dominant in their leagues, it's probably taken Roberts longer to get to grips with the demands of Farke's system. And let's not forget that we'd definitely have been using Onel for exactly that, but he was another unfortunate victim of the injury crisis. As well as Vrancic, who moves the ball forward more incisively in the final third than Leitner. We have been utterly stitched by these injuries, we've been hugely unlucky.

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10 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Roberts is being integrated more often recently, but Farke has made it clear that he favours players who already 'get' the intricacies of the system we're trying to play. Having played for Man City and Celtic who are dominant in their leagues, it's probably taken Roberts longer to get to grips with the demands of Farke's system. And let's not forget that we'd definitely have been using Onel for exactly that, but he was another unfortunate victim of the injury crisis. As well as Vrancic, who moves the ball forward more incisively in the final third than Leitner. We have been utterly stitched by these injuries, we've been hugely unlucky.

I get that but we're talking about what we could do as a plan B now not what we could have done if people were fit.

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26 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Well any plan that incorporates  getting relegated and assumes we will get promoted again is frankly nonsense. All our talented youngsters will be off and there is no guarantee that we will be able to replace them with players who are as good or of the same potential or that the same chemistry will exists or pay off as spectacularly as it did last season when things clicked for us. This "top 25" target that Webber has conveniently set for himself is equally a nonsense which conveniently allows for relegation to still be claimed as "part of the plan."

The aim this season must be to stay up. If we do not do that then it will have been a failure to achieve that aim. If we continue shipping goals at the rate we have done so far this season then the enjoyment will soon wear off for everyone. I hope that's not the case and we can turn it around and achieve our objective.

You can tell me stuff Webber says etc is a nonsense but he's proven himself, and in particular proven people like you wrong. 

There is no assumption we would get promoted again but we would be in a position to do so.

I also disagree that 'all our talented youngsters' will be off. Some might, but like I say if we get relegated I doubt they'll have all proven themselves at this level.

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4 minutes ago, king canary said:

I get that but we're talking about what we could do as a plan B now not what we could have done if people were fit.

I think we need to stick with Plan A, personally. Alex Neil went to Plan B after we shipped six at Newcastle, and look how that turned out. We've spent two years honing this system and it's got us this far, so let's stick with it. That said, I do think that Stiepermann looks a little out of his depth at this level; I'd rather see a creative technical player like Vrancic in that role.

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Just now, Feedthewolf said:

I think we need to stick with Plan A, personally. Alex Neil went to Plan B after we shipped six at Newcastle, and look how that turned out. We've spent two years honing this system and it's got us this far, so let's stick with it. That said, I do think that Stiepermann looks a little out of his depth at this level; I'd rather see a creative technical player like Vrancic in that role.

I think this is more an option to change it up depending on the opponent. I feel we're a bit one dimensional right now- our midfielders are all nice, creative but a bit lightweight and not exactly pacy. Adding a more direct threat to the team at least allows us the chance to mix it up a bit.

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I think Farke is picking the best players he has at his disposal right now in order to play the system we want.

Roberts, I would argue, is far too lightweight and tiny to make much of a difference in helping to track back (which is what we really need our wide players to do in this system). I've said it before but we really miss Onel in that regard. I'd be surprised if, when Onel is back, Roberts gets a game at all. You can't really play him in the 10 role either, again for the reasons I've mentioned. When Stiepi does that we have at least a bit of physicality and height to try and win the ball from the long kicks up the pitch from the 'keeper. Roberts wouldn't stand a chance. I'm not singling him out at all. Thought he looked a good acquisition, but there is clearly a reason he isn't getting game time and I don't think it's because he can't figure out the tactics. I think it's because his abilities don't allow him to play the tactics in the way Farke desires.

The injuries have killed us. That is true. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but, if we were lodging 15 million quid bid for Claude Maurice then we definitely had money to spend. I just wonder why on earth they didn't look at investing 8 million here, 3 million there etc. to get a bit more quality in. Defenders don't always cost a huge amount of money and I think it was clear we needed something different. We went up as Champions with plenty of fireworks along the way. We look like damp squibs at the moment and it's very unfortunate.

Edited by BobLoz3

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Farke has generally brought players into the squad at the right time, particularly younger players. Even in the first season where people wanted rid of him he'd proven that by identifying Lewis, and making Maddison the main man.

 There seems to be more of a clamouring for Roberts based on nothing more than he has a bit of pace. The worst bit is when people say "well he couldnt do any worse" which is quite patently not true.

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28 minutes ago, Year of the tiger said:

I thought plan B was going to be 3 at the back with wing backs as DF suggested in pre season. Unfortunately you need 3 fit centre backs for that

Spot on.

i am convinced had we had enough fit cbs the top 6 home and away we would play 5 at the back and selected other away games. This system shew it’s worth in the FA cup re Arsenal and Chelsea. 

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Jim, where did I state I would enjoy seeing us relegated? I did not. Enjoying a roller-coaster journey is par for the course for a Norwich fan. For some 40 Years I've ENJOYED being a City fan. What I am not is a foolish fan who believes their club deserves anything. Which of the following would suggest we wouldn't be likely candidates for relegation. To have a chance of avoiding a relegation fight (ignoring stupidity and wishful thinking) you need some of the following. Which of these are true of us?

- We are an established PL club
- Our transfer/wage budget allows us to safely compete with mid-table competitors
- We have attracted players of proven PL ability
- We have real squad depth with significant of experience at PL level (hmmm, Tim Krul?)
- We have a manager who knows this league inside out and has the proven credentials to avoid relegation and to secure a mid-table - finish at PL level

We have none of these. We have great support and a well-run professional club, a promising young manager, some promising talent in Pukki, Buendia, Leitner, Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis (and Cantwell it would seem). This is what we have and I personally love watching us attempt to pull off a miracle. Be realistic, with the exception of Sheffield United we were everyones favourites to be relegated. Pundits, experts, bookies, neutral fans... everyone. (Except Jim possibly). This is for a reason based on the evaluation of data and facts over-layed with historic trends. 

So, do try to enjoy the ride Jim, optimism and realism can be interchanged whenever we wish. My realism does not make me any less of a fan Jim. But, if you're happy in Jim world then that's fine too! Put £100 on us finishing top 4, why not!! 

Enjoy the season Jim. I will! 


 

 

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18 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Spot on.

i am convinced had we had enough fit cbs the top 6 home and away we would play 5 at the back and selected other away games. This system shew it’s worth in the FA cup re Arsenal and Chelsea. 

VERY Norfolk 😉

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