Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Yellowhammer

MOTD

Recommended Posts

Summed it up well I thought playing it out from the back was not working and caused most of our problems ,along with terrible defending . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 'pundits' don't like playing it out from the back or VAR as it's not like it was in their day when it was 'proper' football and then you could go for 10 pints. It's new and they're not having it.

They rarely show footage where playing it out from the back had a positive impact on the game. 😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is, hoofing it long won't work because PL defenders are usually a foot taller than Pukki.

We just need to get the basics right of passing and controlling the ball - something we seem to have completely forgotten.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our style is central around playing it out from the back. Hoofing it up to Pukki certainly won’t work.

 

The issue yesterday is that our passing was poor, our decision making was poor and sadly our defending was atrocious. We weren’t getting tight enough to them, especially as soon as we lost the ball. Their 4th and 5th, whilst good finishes, were given far too much time to make a decision and execute it. We shouldn’t be giving teams that much time and space that close to our goal. Not having a defensive midfielder, whilst not the only source of our problems, is criminal. You cannot get away with it at this level, and yesterdays score was a brutal reminder that you’ve got to be tight, and you’ve got to be clinical. We failed massively at both of those things.

Villa were good to a point, but we were very, very poor

Edited by AJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What we did against Man City was defend well and when getting the ball, had inspired spells of possession that bypassed the best team in the league.  That is the kind of performance/standard we will need every week as every team has players that can hurt us. 

That style of play involves us playing from the back, sucking the opponents in and then attacking incisively and quickly. Change that and we may as well not bother. 

It is our way, on a good day - with fit players - it will work well. Yesterday was not a good day.  Don't dwell on it, we get back to what we are good at and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Playing out from the back is fine as long as you pass it to someone in the same team.

We have lost the ability to do that at the moment mainly because other teams have worked out how to force us into making mistakes.

They know all too well that eventually we will make a mistake.

You can get away with a few mistakes but in this League you won't get away with all of them.

We need to be more aware of when passing out from the back is a safe option and when it isn't the safe option.

In short, we have become over reliant on this style of play and we are taking too many risks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

We need to be more aware of when passing out from the back is a safe option and when it isn't the safe option.

In short, we have become over reliant on this style of play and we are taking too many risks.

We are not over reliant on it, it is the way we play. We simply need to get back to doing it better.  Having a good CB pairing with a real defensive midfielder in front of them will help.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are far too one dimensional. We rely on playing swift counter attacking football with our two full backs getting forward as wingers.

play a high line against us, as did Liverpool, Burnley, Palace and now Villa and restrict the space available to stop the full backs getting forward, and there you have it. With a lightweight midfield who had no outlet as the full backs were not there to receive the wide ball, our attempts at playing it out from the back were nullified by a very competent Grealish who ran the Villa show. Giving the ball away as we did, with horrific defending to boot, there was only going to be one winner. 

The pundits on MOTD were not wrong, in fact they were spot on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

Playing out from the back is fine as long as you pass it to someone in the same team.

We have lost the ability to do that at the moment mainly because other teams have worked out how to force us into making mistakes.

They know all too well that eventually we will make a mistake.

You can get away with a few mistakes but in this League you won't get away with all of them.

We need to be more aware of when passing out from the back is a safe option and when it isn't the safe option.

In short, we have become over reliant on this style of play and we are taking too many risks.

Agreed.

Playing out from the back is the modern way and with the players we have it's clearly the right thing to do, but the problem yesterday was the execution- we gave the ball away far too many times in defence which is something you can't do.

The main issue was the accuracy of the passing, as it often put the player receiving the ball into trouble. But also, the players do need to realise that when there isn't a safe option, there's no shame in playing it long. Sure, we might lose possession, but it's far better to lose possession on the halfway line than the edge of your own box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube ManThe problem I fear we have is that teams have sussed us out and we don't really have a plan B.

They know that Pukki won't win ariel balls so they can afford to push players forward when they press us at goal kicks etc.

Unless we are able to get the passing basics right (like we did vs Man city), we'll have to change the way we play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a nutshell this is the whole problem - and where pundits seem to be able to have their cake and eat it, praising you for doing something one week and slating you for it the next.

Against Man City we were lauded by all for our ‘bravery’ at passing through their press - it worked as our passing and movement was neat and clinical. I stumbled on a BT Sport programme where they showed a number of such occasions and Lee Dixon waxing lyrical about it.

 Now unless you think Villa are better than Citeh ( they aren’t) IMO it was as much us not being at the races as the Villa tactics that did for us - we seemed more laboured and off colour, the passing wasn’t anywhere near as incisive yesterday.  The point is, on another day Villa’s tactics would have looked naive and daft as we passed our way through them 

It happens.  I would agree that it is definitely worth mixing it up more, to keep sides guessing, but pundits can’t have it both ways.

Edited by Branston Pickle
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

City 2nd states the fullbacks were not available in space to receive the ball. Aarons was given a lot of space and showed his frustration. The two midfielders and to a lesser extent Amadou were just not capable of finding him quickly. We all seem to be forgetting that Godfrey and Lewis were barely fit to play and clearly only turned out because of the existing long injury list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Norwich have three goalkeepers, four central defenders and three defensive midfielders in their squad.

Seven out of ten were missing yesterday.

Of the three who played, one was making his PL debut, one is about to undergo a hernia operation, and the third is clearly having to play OOP.

Although the passing and general play was not good enough, there are not many PL teams that would not struggle were they to encounter such an injury crisis.

It’s all very well saying that injuries don’t come into it, but if everybody was fit I’m not sure either Godfrey or Amadou would currently be selected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, unique said:

Norwich have three goalkeepers, four central defenders and three defensive midfielders in their squad.

Seven out of ten were missing yesterday.

Of the three who played, one was making his PL debut, one is about to undergo a hernia operation, and the third is clearly having to play OOP.

Although the passing and general play was not good enough, there are not many PL teams that would not struggle were they to encounter such an injury crisis.

It’s all very well saying that injuries don’t come into it, but if everybody was fit I’m not sure either Godfrey or Amadou would currently be selected.

No one is disputing that. It still doesn’t change the fact that on the pitch we were masters of our own downfall. Basic marking and defending completely missing. Buendia constantly giving away possession, two occasions resulting in goals against. We had these injury problems against Man City but the concentration levels were bang on in that match. They haven’t been since 

Edited by JF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hung around after the game and was extremely disappointed that John Terry didn't whip off his tracksuit to reveal a Villa strip, and run from the away dugout to the adulating away support.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I don't rate McGovern as a goalie, he actually did pretty well yesterday, he is rubbish at playing it out from the back. Far too slow and there were several times first half where Amadou had to take the ball off him when only 2m away and was immediately put under pressure. If we are going to play out from our own goal kicks we need to practice! Krul was sorely missed from that perspective and he's not that brilliant at it either. I hate these short goal kicks.

We simply don't have the options for playing it long. Pukki too short and Stiepermann lost every single header yesterday.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Against Man City as well though, when we did give it away, we hadn’t been pulled all out of position. Against Villa, most of their threat was pressing us, winning it in good positions and us not being able to recover.

People would no doubt have panned us if we started a home game against Villa as defensively as we did against Man City, but I think that’s probably our best hope this season - especially whilst our defence is so stretched. If we haven’t got first, second or even third choice defenders available, then we need to help the, out a bit. Sit in tighter, have a holding two in midfield staying close to the back four, play it out from the back and then focus the attacking phases on Pukki, Cantwell,  Buendia and Stiepermann, with everyone else largely holding their position. If we need to bomb Aarons forward, then fine, maybe bring in Vrancic for Stipermann and have him hold slightly more, with Amadou or Tettey (or whoever else is holding) slotting in to cover the gap at right back.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, unique said:

Norwich have three goalkeepers, four central defenders and three defensive midfielders in their squad.

Seven out of ten were missing yesterday.

Of the three who played, one was making his PL debut, one is about to undergo a hernia operation, and the third is clearly having to play OOP.

Although the passing and general play was not good enough, there are not many PL teams that would not struggle were they to encounter such an injury crisis.

It’s all very well saying that injuries don’t come into it, but if everybody was fit I’m not sure either Godfrey or Amadou would currently be selected.

I understand fully what you are saying but at the end of the day if you are a proffesional footballer in a PL squad, regardless of whether you are first second or third choice, you should be capable of producing the basic skills of the game - marking, tackling and passing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

I understand fully what you are saying but at the end of the day if you are a proffesional footballer in a PL squad, regardless of whether you are first second or third choice, you should be capable of producing the basic skills of the game - marking, tackling and passing.

 

Sorry mate, but that's b******s.  If a third choice player in a just promoted club is as good at marking, tackling and passing as a first choice player at an established club who cost £10m+, then something odd is going on. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Aggy said:

People would no doubt have panned us if we started a home game against Villa as defensively as we did against Man City, but I think that’s probably our best hope this season - especially whilst our defence is so stretched.

I said this somewhere else, but I am a bit surprised that we haven't played like that against anyone else to be honest. The Man City game was perfect in it's way, soak up the pressure, keep shape and composure and attack clinically. 

If we are approaching games differently then I think that is the mistake - we need to play every match as if we are playing Man City.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But when we played Man city we had Tettey and McLean. Since then we' ve had Leitner and McLean. 

Edited by nutty nigel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Against Man City we had Tettey who had one of the best games of his life. Absolutely no DM yesterday and our so called AMs couldn't pass the salt. We will have to make changes against Bournemouth and somehow get Amadou at DM otherwise we will get absolutely shreaded given their style of play. They are a far better side than poxy Villa. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Sorry mate, but that's b******s.  If a third choice player in a just promoted club is as good at marking, tackling and passing as a first choice player at an established club who cost £10m+, then something odd is going on. 

Well there's certainly something odd going on if the players who make up our squad can't mark somebody, can't tackle or make a pass to a team mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its obvious that missing first choice central defenders and first choice central defensive midfield players makes a massive negative difference. I think others play this down because for whatever reason, it suits them.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I think its obvious that missing first choice central defenders and first choice central defensive midfield players makes a massive negative difference. I think others play this down because for whatever reason, it suits them.

We had 58% of possession and 21 chances against Villa Nutty. 

It may help explain why Villa found it so easy to breeze past our defence...

But it doesn't explain why we've seemingly lost all composure in the final third. How many more chances did we need? 

Stiepermann simply needs too many chances to score a goal. Yes he managed 9 last season, when we'd get 15+ chances every game.

But we're at a level where you are lucky to get 4 or 5 in a game, and Stiepermann had 6 good chances in the first half alone... and scuffed them all.

Dropping Stiepermann is an option we currently have with the players we still have at our disposal. 

We've just seen a 19 year old score two for Brighton against Spurs, and an 18 year old debutant score the only goal for Newcastle against Man Utd....

.... so get Adam Idah in the side up alongside Pukki. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you go buddy?

I never thought we looked like scoring and I never once thought "we should have scored there". The only clear cut chance we had we took.

Defensively we were poor especially through not closing down quick enough and allowing their attacking players too many dangerous options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meant to add that the big difference between the two sides yesterday was defensively. They defended really well. Closed us down and never gave us time on the ball hence we had a few half chances and that was it. We defended poorly in comparison. You only have to look at the goals to see how much time and space they had.

Some of our passing in attacking areas was as good as theirs. Difference was their runners stayed tight and defenders closed down quickly.

Edited by nutty nigel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difference was Mings. He’s starting to look a quality defender. Took control of every situation we had, threw himself in front of everything and orchestrated their defence. Had he been in our back four we’d have won that game

edit. I’d have imagined Zimmerman would have been our equivalent if injuries hadn’t hit 

 

Edited by JF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, JF said:

Difference was Mings. He’s starting to look a quality defender. Took control of every situation we had, threw himself in front of everything and orchestrated their defence. Had he been in our back four we’d have won that game

edit. I’d have imagined Zimmerman would have been our equivalent if injuries hadn’t hit 

 

It was a bit more than that but Zimbo is a big miss.

Most people thought we'd be up against it this season but gave us a chance. Rewind the pre-season predictions to include this ridiculous injury situation and see what we think...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...