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Rhino1

Let’s not revert to overpaid journey man!!!

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I would rather have the kids and players who want to play for the club, with heart , than a side full of overpaid journeymen. Regardless of where it takes us. The calls by the moaners for more investment and that we should have bought more players in (journeyman) is not only with hindsight, but would have been the slippery slope to reverting to a club without sole!!! 

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It would not make the club a good plaice to be at! On a serious note I agree with you, we have gone down that route before and it doesn't work. The moaners need to get real and calm down, did they think it would be easy this season? Take a look at Vital Norwich Forum, some total idiots on there!

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Well I disagree. In view of the disasterous injury list, a free agent central defender on a short term contract needs to be a serious consideration. 

Edited by ricardo
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2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Well I disagree. In view of the disasterous injury list, a free agent central defender on a short term contract needs to be a serious consideration. 

Di you have any suggestions?

 

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How many times do we have to go round in the same circle and it is always the same people dancing the merry dance.

"We need to spend lots of money to have any chance of staying in this league." Person A.

"Ok, we haven't got massive amounts but we'll try our hardest to get players in that will improve us." The Club. They then spend a few quid on players that look good, Naismith/RVW for wxample.

"Hooray." Person A.

(A few weeks later) "This player is ****, why did we spend all that money on him.Club's joke." Person A.

"No, it looked a good purchase at the time, it just hasn't worked out." Person B.

"Shut up happy clapper." Person A.

The club goes through a poor season and starts looking financially in trouble.

"Why did we spend all that money on players and give them massive contracts? Club's a joke." Person A.

"Ok, we've learned a lesson and we are going to do this differently. A self funded model that will leave us financially secure for a long time." The Club.

"Hooray!" Person A and B.

The club does well. Starts getting a healthier and more stable financial setting and after a while gets promotion.

"We need to spend lots of money to have any chance of staying in this league." Person A.

"FFS!!" Everybody else.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Di you have any suggestions?

 

No, but I would guess the powers that be must have a list of possibles. Playing for half a season with one central defender and a stop gap defensive midfielder means we will need to score three goals a game to get a point. 

I dont know the prognosis for the injured parties but we could be out of contention very quickly if we do nothing.

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8 minutes ago, Herman said:

How many times do we have to go round in the same circle and it is always the same people dancing the merry dance.

"We need to spend lots of money to have any chance of staying in this league." Person A.

"Ok, we haven't got massive amounts but we'll try our hardest to get players in that will improve us." The Club. They then spend a few quid on players that look good, Naismith/RVW for wxample.

"Hooray." Person A.

(A few weeks later) "This player is ****, why did we spend all that money on him.Club's joke." Person A.

"No, it looked a good purchase at the time, it just hasn't worked out." Person B.

"Shut up happy clapper." Person A.

The club goes through a poor season and starts looking financially in trouble.

"Why did we spend all that money on players and give them massive contracts? Club's a joke." Person A.

"Ok, we've learned a lesson and we are going to do this differently. A self funded model that will leave us financially secure for a long time." The Club.

"Hooray!" Person A and B.

The club does well. Starts getting a healthier and more stable financial setting and after a while gets promotion.

"We need to spend lots of money to have any chance of staying in this league." Person A.

"FFS!!" Everybody else.

 

 

The model you choose is irrelevant. If you can't field a competitive eleven through injuries you need to take some sort of action.

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It's not really is it? The people doing the most whinging are blaming it on the fact we haven't spent a fortune on new players, when they knew from the start that we wouldn't be doing that.

Saying we need to look for a suitable replacement/s because of our bizarre injury crisis is a fair point, but it's not what they are ****tng themselves about.

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Spot on Ricardo about staying in contention. I'm not blaming Amadou in any way as he is not a CH despite what some on here think, but his performances are on a downward spiral. Plus it's highly likely Godfrey will not have recovered from his hernia op before Bournemouth.

Our midfield is powder puff light. We need Amadou in there.

Or we try Famewo at the back. We have to do something though as it's 3 successive defeats and poor performances. Confidence is shot.

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I was going to post this as a new thread, but this seems the place...

---

This was the plan, which posters seemed happy enough with in the summer, to avoid previous mistakes. Not to splurge money on big transfer fees and, more damagingly, high wages with long-term contracts, but to build organically towards a time when we might be able to solidify a place in the Premier League. With the obvious but unspoken admission that we could easily be relegated this season.

To that end a significant part of our summer transfer business involved getting in the next generation – Adshead, Muir, Bushiri etc. So while we decided to upgrade the first-team squad a bit, we would be significantly limited in the type and quality of player we could attract.

Even if, for example, we were worried about whether some players would make the step up in class, and wanted to bring in experienced Premier League players, we would have had trouble convincing them to come, given our wage structure and immediate prospects (and it was the uncertainty of our prospects that seemingly dissuaded Claude-Maurice from joining us, for what would have been by far our record transfer fee).

I posted (semi-jokily) before the season started that if the other PL managers didn’t realise Stiepermann was the most one-footed player in football history we would win the title, and if they did we would finish bottom.

The serious point was that some of our stand-out players from last season might get found out, and it seems Stiepermann is not the only one. Buendia is not slicing up defences the way he did. Aarons is being caught out defensively. Godfrey too. Who was a midfielder not long ago and is learning the hard way on the job.

But because of our injury crisis (easily the worst in my several decades as a supporter) we have not only had to go on playing him in central defence (while waiting for an operation) but are partnering him with someone we really need to be playing as a defensive central midfielder but can’t because our other such is, yes, injured. Oh the fates.

But the question of stepping up in class also applies to Farke and the rest of the back-room staff. It is not just the players who are better in the PL. Pellegrini, for example, has coached top-flight teams from River Plate through Real Madrid to Man City. Others have starry CVs, if not all as Impressive as that. Farke was bound sometimes to be out-coached, even if injuries had not limited his tactical options the way they have.

Would this extra player or that be making a difference? A fifth central defender? Possibly. But it would not have been someone of such a quality that we would have wanted them to be playing under normal circumstances. As it happens a move for a free agent or someone in January makes sense, but a very specific short-term point like that hardly invalidates the overall plan, of building organically.

There is an argument that this shouldn’t have to be the plan, because we ought to have mega-rich owners. Leaving aside the pros and cons of that discussion, the reality is that for now we don’t have such. Hence the long-term plan, which is no less valid now than when we beat Man City….

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I get the impression a few on here wish we had never have got promoted and were still in the Championship. We all knew it would be difficult but some can't stand a hint of criticism aimed at Farke, Webber, the players etc.

We might well be relegated but don't get all complacent, shrug our shoulders and think oh we'll just come straight back up, because we might well not. Just look at Stoke and Huddersfield.

Let's give it our best shot, please not a repeat of that Neil humiliation.

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6 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

. As it happens a move for a free agent or someone in January makes sense, but a very specific short-term point like that hardly invalidates the overall plan, of building 

 

Spot on.

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49 minutes ago, Red Rufus said:

It would not make the club a good plaice to be at! On a serious note I agree with you, we have gone down that route before and it doesn't work. The moaners need to get real and calm down, did they think it would be easy this season? Take a look at Vital Norwich Forum, some total idiots on there!

I saw what you did there. 😄

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24 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I get the impression a few on here wish we had never have got promoted and were still in the Championship. We all knew it would be difficult but some can't stand a hint of criticism aimed at Farke, Webber, the players etc.

We might well be relegated but don't get all complacent, shrug our shoulders and think oh we'll just come straight back up, because we might well not. Just look at Stoke and Huddersfield.

Let's give it our best shot, please not a repeat of that Neil humiliation.

Nobody is saying that. 

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At the moment even this isn’t an option thank goodness, really don’t need another Naismith thank you very much.

Said it before and I’ll say it again Famewo is the answer short term, moving Amadou into his strong position will help our defence and free up Buendia and Cantwell to play further up the pitch.

Its our only real option to fit right players into the right positions, we’ll see if he’s good enough once he played.

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1 hour ago, Rhino1 said:

I would rather have the kids and players who want to play for the club, with heart , than a side full of overpaid journeymen. Regardless of where it takes us. The calls by the moaners for more investment and that we should have bought more players in (journeyman) is not only with hindsight, but would have been the slippery slope to reverting to a club without sole!!! 

Here's a challenge...

1) Try and start a thread without multiple exclamation marks in the titles

2) Try and write a post where you don't call other fans moaners/morons/knobs.

You never know, you might enjoy it...

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Ricardo, I actually don’t disagree with you I think the approach to get somebody in now to shore up the defence and help with confidence is a good one, but anybody worth getting won’t be available until January at least. That would be pragmatic and good management (given the events of the first 8 weeks) . 

However the moaners would have spent millions at the start and bankrupted us!!! It feels a bit like a scene from the living dead!! Open the door a crack , the moaning zombie hands start to appear!! Open halfway (which in fairness we did yesterday) and the moaning zombies come through in their train load!!! 

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1 hour ago, Rhino1 said:

I would rather have the kids and players who want to play for the club, with heart , than a side full of overpaid journeymen. Regardless of where it takes us. The calls by the moaners for more investment and that we should have bought more players in (journeyman) is not only with hindsight, but would have been the slippery slope to reverting to a club without sole!!! 

You don’t think that maybe there is a possibility that an experienced “ journey man” that has been there and done it, might be just what our group of inexperienced youngsters need? Why do people always revert back to the bad examples rather than seeing that there are also positive examples? How did you view Dion Dublin’s time at the club? He was nothing more than a “journeyman” when we signed him. The right player if available could become priceless for our younger players on filed development 

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13 minutes ago, Rhino1 said:

Ricardo, I actually don’t disagree with you I think the approach to get somebody in now to shore up the defence and help with confidence is a good one, but anybody worth getting won’t be available until January at least. That would be pragmatic and good management (given the events of the first 8 weeks) . 

However the moaners would have spent millions at the start and bankrupted us!!! It feels a bit like a scene from the living dead!! Open the door a crack , the moaning zombie hands start to appear!! Open halfway (which in fairness we did yesterday) and the moaning zombies come through in their train load!!! 

Hate to break it to you but the “moaners” have no control over the finances. The same people that spent “millions” and “nearly bankrupted us” are the same people that are pulling the strings now. Here’s a thought though, what if there could be some common ground found somewhere in between? I’ve not seen anyone suggesting we threw the financial kitchen sink at it, but surely we could have stretched ourselves further than we did and fill a 25 Man squad?

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Not gonna get too worked up about this season at all, winning the title last season has given the Club as a whole a massive injection of Cash, including parachute payments over next couple of seasons, should  we suffer' a fate worse than death'.....not my words ,as most of you will recognise.

Yes, yesterday was not a good day at the office. We may well have more like this but did anyone really expect us to just waltz into the premier League and become an instantly settled midtable side, looking to push the ' top table' the following year. Promotion came with a very heavy caveat from the management team......it was earlier than expected and building the Club in the long term was the focus, if we stay up, great , if not, we can deal with it. 

Side note, most of the posters whingeing on here are not usually seen on this message board on a daily/ weekly basis. Some ,of course are, some are trolls and some are just eejits that if they weren't moaning on here would be moaning somewhere else. Anyone that can't understand what the Club is trying to achieve long term should go support some other Club. We may yet fail in our long term plan but so far the new regime has turned the Club around ,we have cleared virtually all debt and have a cat 1 academy that is filling up with potential for the future. As a Club, we are in good shape, with short term issues in the  current playing squad.

 

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Hypothetically, a free agent makes sense. But in reality? Are there any even remotely Prem standard CBs available on a free? (I've got no idea, but it sounds extremely unlikely).

As an aside, this must be the worst injury crisis since I can remember. 

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10 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Can I ask the people calling for Famewo, have you seen him play ?

No have you? None of us had seen Aarons and Lewis either.You have to start somewhere.

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25 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Can I ask the people calling for Famewo, have you seen him play ?

Franko, I'm not calling for Famewo, but as a player whose position is CB,he must at least be considered as the absence of Trybull and Tettey means we are short in the DM position, moving Amadou to his preferred role and inserting Famewo may work, it may not, hard to say but after the last 3 games he might provide a stop gap solution untill we can sort out our injury problems. Also, I think we shipped 58 goals last season in a lower league with basically the same defensive options, stats( yeah , I know) show that on average ,promoted teams concede around 50% more goals in their first season in the prem, so let's not be too surprised when our decimated back line is leaky. I fully expect the Club is working behind the scenes identifying potential improvements, which is our most pressing issue within the playing staff. 

No one said it was gonna be easy, but I can say for sure it's gonna be tough this season,Which I'm sure most ,except the clueless and deluded ,also can accept.

Edited by wcorkcanary
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1 hour ago, Indy said:

At the moment even this isn’t an option thank goodness, really don’t need another Naismith thank you very much.

Said it before and I’ll say it again Famewo is the answer short term, moving Amadou into his strong position will help our defence and free up Buendia and Cantwell to play further up the pitch.

Its our only real option to fit right players into the right positions, we’ll see if he’s good enough once he played.

Pretty much agree with that - it’s inevitable during a season that you’ll have to play someone out of position as a short-term stop-gap, within a game or the for odd one dotted about, but we have perhaps taken it to its limit and it’s now counting against us.  For me it’s not necessarily in defence per se, it is the impact it is having into midfield: in terms of protecting the defence it melted into nothing yesterday and that can’t happen at this level.  

Imo the quicker Amadou is pushed into cdm the better (and for me it could/should have happened already) - if it’s via Famewo being given a shot then that’s ok, I’d have possibly tried Byram or Heise but then I suppose you’re back into playing guys out of position.

I imagine/hope SW/DF have looked at a short-term guy behind the scenes but found nothing doing - it’s surely a small pool of players and any player would have had to be training pretty well in order to even have a vague chance of starting a PL game within a few weeks. 

Edited by Branston Pickle

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13 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Pretty much agree with that - it’s inevitable during a season that you’ll have to play someone out of position as a short-term stop-gap, within a game or the for odd one dotted about, but we have perhaps taken it to its limit and it’s now counting against us.  For me it’s not necessarily in defence per se, it is the impact it is having into midfield: in terms of protecting the defence it melted into nothing yesterday and that can’t happen at this level.  

Imo the quicker Amadou is pushed into cdm the better (and for me it could/should have happened already) - if it’s via Famewo being given a shot then that’s ok, I’d have possibly tried Byram or Heise but then I suppose you’re back into playing guys out of position.

I imagine/hope SW/DF have looked at a short-term guy behind the scenes but found nothing doing - it’s surely a small pool of players and any player would have had to be training pretty well in order to even have a vague chance of starting a PL game within a few weeks. 

I said about fitting Byram in to push Amadou into midfield a couple weeks ago.

Its no coincidence that when Tettey played in that holding position we looked a little bit more solid.

We have two weeks now, with Godfrey having his op Monday it could mean he’s out in two weeks time then we’re really going to be short on choices at the back.

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42 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

No have you? None of us had seen Aarons and Lewis either.You have to start somewhere.

Isn't that part of the issue, though?

Farke has shown he'll put the younger players in if he think they're good enough. It's very probable that Amadou out of position is still a far better CB than Famewo..

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

 

I was going to post this as a new thread, but this seems the place...

---

This was the plan, which posters seemed happy enough with in the summer, to avoid previous mistakes. Not to splurge money on big transfer fees and, more damagingly, high wages with long-term contracts, but to build organically towards a time when we might be able to solidify a place in the Premier League. With the obvious but unspoken admission that we could easily be relegated this season.

 

To that end a significant part of our summer transfer business involved getting in the next generation – Adshead, Muir, Bushiri etc. So while we decided to upgrade the first-team squad a bit, we would be significantly limited in the type and quality of player we could attract.

 

Even if, for example, we were worried about whether some players would make the step up in class, and wanted to bring in experienced Premier League players, we would have had trouble convincing them to come, given our wage structure and immediate prospects (and it was the uncertainty of our prospects that seemingly dissuaded Claude-Maurice from joining us, for what would have been by far our record transfer fee).

 

I posted (semi-jokily) before the season started that if the other PL managers didn’t realise Stiepermann was the most one-footed player in football history we would win the title, and if they did we would finish bottom.

 

The serious point was that some of our stand-out players from last season might get found out, and it seems Stiepermann is not the only one. Buendia is not slicing up defences the way he did. Aarons is being caught out defensively. Godfrey too. Who was a midfielder not long ago and is learning the hard way on the job.

 

But because of our injury crisis (easily the worst in my several decades as a supporter) we have not only had to go on playing him in central defence (while waiting for an operation) but are partnering him with someone we really need to be playing as a defensive central midfielder but can’t because our other such is, yes, injured. Oh the fates.

 

But the question of stepping up in class also applies to Farke and the rest of the back-room staff. It is not just the players who are better in the PL. Pellegrini, for example, has coached top-flight teams from River Plate through Real Madrid to Man City. Others have starry CVs, if not all as Impressive as that. Farke was bound sometimes to be out-coached, even if injuries had not limited his tactical options the way they have.

 

Would this extra player or that be making a difference? A fifth central defender? Possibly. But it would not have been someone of such a quality that we would have wanted them to be playing under normal circumstances. As it happens a move for a free agent or someone in January makes sense, but a very specific short-term point like that hardly invalidates the overall plan, of building organically.

There is an argument that this shouldn’t have to be the plan, because we ought to have mega-rich owners. Leaving aside the pros and cons of that discussion, the reality is that for now we don’t have such. Hence the long-term plan, which is no less valid now than when we beat Man City….

 

I agree Purple that with the decision taken by the owners this is how we have to do it (although I still think we could have found a bit extra for another CB and wide option and will regret not doing so). However we the fans have never been given a say over whether we want to restrict ourselves with this model as it becomes increasingly clear how challenging it will be.

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